The Samsung 2D/3D lens

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Here is a 3D video produced with the Samsung 2D/3D 45mm lens on the new Samsung NX500. The shallow DOF you get with big sensor cameras enhances 3D, and you tend to get better color and DR as well:

YouTube (Short URL)

[Mark Rosenzweig]

YouTube (Short URL)

There are two motion artifacts (lasting less than a second each out of a three-minute + video):

1. Vertically leaping dog.

2. Close LR fast tail wag.

These illustrate the limitation of the lens technology.

[Mark Rosenzweig]

YouTube (Short URL)

[Mark Rosenzweig]

YouTube (Short URL)

[Mark Rosenzweig]

YouTube (Short URL)

[Mark Rosenzweig]

YouTube (Short URL)

[Roger Gunkel]

The shallow depth of field combined with the small interracial spacing doesn't cut it for me. I like to be able to look around the screen to get a feel for the depth, but with the clips you have shown, only the subject is really in focus. The whole beauty of 3d in my opinion is the relationship between the different distances of objects which I just don't get because of the blurring of the background.

The limited IA spacing also means that objects more than a few feet away show virtually no depth, so the lens for me, would only be useable for limited CU work. The depth is very similar to that on one of my Panasonic converter lenses and cameras such as the Sony Bloggie. The advantage for family shots with the small spacing, is that most shots would only be from a few feet away, so there is little chance of parallax problems and window violations, but for anything beyond that it would be pointless and disappointing for me.

My JVC TD-GS1 gives far better depth information and much greater DOF even though the IA is still quite small, with my twin rig being used for further subjects. I can see the Samsung having uses for close up subjects only, where shallow DOF may be required as the effect and depth would be lost on anything more than a few feet away. Most of my 3d work requires much more flexibility and I really see this lens as a late and weak nod to 3d rather than a serious user tool.

Just my personal opinion of course and many will no doubt disagree :-)

Roger

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

The shallow depth of field combined with the small interracial spacing doesn't cut it for me. I like to be able to look around the screen to get a feel for the depth, but with the clips you have shown, only the subject is really in focus. The whole beauty of 3d in my opinion is the relationship between the different distances of objects which I just don't get because of the blurring of the background.

The limited IA spacing also means that objects more than a few feet away show virtually no depth, so the lens for me, would only be useable for limited CU work. The depth is very similar to that on one of my Panasonic converter lenses and cameras such as the Sony Bloggie. The advantage for family shots with the small spacing, is that most shots would only be from a few feet away, so there is little chance of parallax problems and window violations, but for anything beyond that it would be pointless and disappointing for me.

My JVC TD-GS1 gives far better depth information and much greater DOF even though the IA is still quite small, with my twin rig being used for further subjects. I can see the Samsung having uses for close up subjects only, where shallow DOF may be required as the effect and depth would be lost on anything more than a few feet away. Most of my 3d work requires much more flexibility and I really see this lens as a late and weak nod to 3d rather than a serious user tool.

Just my personal opinion of course and many will no doubt disagree :-)

Roger

I agree with your observations. But other qualities of the image must also be considered. All the 3D camcorders, including the JVC, have tiny sensors - the TD-GS1 sensors are less than 1/4". This is what gives the great dof that you enjoy. But the cost is that these cameras have poorer color and less dynamic range. (not only due to the sensor). In terms of resolution, DR and color the 2D video that lies behind the dual images does not come close to that of what today's 2D mirrorless cameras can do in video.

I personally like adding shallow dof to 3D, and I certainly appreciate the portability. My one wish is to have a bigger io distance. But I cannot take my Z10000 to most places I take the NX500.

[Roger Gunkel]

Hi Mark, the JVC and similar small sensor cameras do give less DR and colour resolution as you say, which is why I use a twin rig with bigger sensor cameras for more serious work. I also like the flexibility of being able to vary the IA spacing with a twin rig, the downside of course being size and convenience of my twin mirror less or DSLR rig. Having said that, most of my more serious 3d shoots require more setup time and shot preparation anyway, so then the size of the rig becomes less of an inconvenience.

I do love my JVC though for the sheer flexibility and ease of use, plus the comparatively good low light for a small sensor camera and the 3d screen which is a boon for setting up shots. The manual overrides are also good and I haven't found anything better yet for personal and low level shoots, probably won't now that the bottom has fallen out of the market once more :-(

Roger

[Damir Vrancic]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

The shallow depth of field combined with the small interracial spacing doesn't cut it for me. I like to be able to look around the screen to get a feel for the depth, but with the clips you have shown, only the subject is really in focus. The whole beauty of 3d in my opinion is the relationship between the different distances of objects which I just don't get because of the blurring of the background.

This is true, but sometimes, when the background/foreground is not interesting at all for the story, I think that it might be out of focus. Especially it can be more easily tolerated in video. Personally, in many occasions, I prefer some degree of blurring, since video usually looks nicer. Of course, over-doing it in 3D can be disturbing.

Damir

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Damir Vrancic

This is true, but sometimes, when the background/foreground is not interesting at all for the story, I think that it might be out of focus. Especially it can be more easily tolerated in video. Personally, in many occasions, I prefer some degree of blurring, since video usually looks nicer. Of course, over-doing it in 3D can be disturbing.

Damir

In 2d work I certainly use shallow DOF at times to focus attention just on the subject, but I am not really comfortable with it in 3D, although I accept that there are times when it has its uses, particularly in macro work.

The problem with the Samsung lens for me is that even in general scenes the background is out of focus, which makes the lens of limited use. I feel that the advantage of the bigger sensor on the camera is negated by the focus limitations. As I said before though, just my opinion based on my own preferences.

Roger

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Clearly, one way to have flexibility in io distance and to make use of better-than-camcorder sensors is to use a two-camera rig.

Roger, I know you have done this. I have heard people say that it is impossible to synch without genlock, but you have done it and have high standards. What is your best technique for achieving synch across the two views in post?

One method is to use the audio (a clap) to synch. Is there anything better?

[Roger Gunkel]

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

Clearly, one way to have flexibility in io distance and to make use of better-than-camcorder sensors is to use a two-camera rig.

Roger, I know you have done this. I have heard people say that it is impossible to synch without genlock, but you have done it and have high standards. What is your best technique for achieving synch across the two views in post?

One method is to use the audio (a clap) to synch. Is there anything better?

If I had enough 3d work and or could afford it, I would have a pair of genlocked cameras, but in the meantime, I have two methods of working with a twin rig. I have a pair of older small sensor Panasonic SD700 video cams that have been totally reliable over the the last few years and outperform their size. They are 3cmos cameras which give a better colour depth and I have triggered the start and stop with a twinned IR remote which is wired from the cameras to the hand control on the tripod handle. I used to record a click or clap for synching, but I use Magix ProX6 for 3d editing which has an excellent audio synch for parallel tracks. Virtually any sound common to both cameras can be synched without a specific cue signal. It is also surprising how often the cameras start and stop in synch. Good enough for some action stills which the cams take at 14Mps. With synching for the work that I am doing, the worst possible scenario is both cameras being half a frame out, but on UK PAL at 25fps, that is a difference of only 1/50th sec which is just not noticeable.

Tape based cams used to creep in relation to each other which made it virtually impossible to synch more than a few seconds without genlock, but solid state memory has made it much easier for the small events I am involved in.

I also use a pair of Lumix FZ200 mirror less cams for video and stills, which are triggered with a pair of wireless remotes, with one hand controller. I will be adding a pair of Lumix FZ1000 4k cams shortly, as I love the convenience and flexibility of the lens coupled with the l" sensor. The Lumix cams are also small enough to have a useable IO unless really close work is required. I don't usually use DSLRs for 3d as I find them inconvenient for video, but often use a single DSLR for 3d stills.

I have decided to change my editing system to Edius Pro7 for 2d work, but it is also supposed to be very good with 3d editing and will handle 4k better than Magix. I will probably need to find another way to sync the left/right streams as there appears to be no audio sync in Edius, although it does have audio frame adjust.

Roger

[Mark Rosenzweig]

Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel

If I had enough 3d work and or could afford it, I would have a pair of genlocked cameras, but in the meantime, I have two methods of working with a twin rig. I have a pair of older small sensor Panasonic SD700 video cams that have been totally reliable over the the last few years and outperform their size. They are 3cmos cameras which give a better colour depth and I have triggered the start and stop with a twinned IR remote which is wired from the cameras to the hand control on the tripod handle. I used to record a click or clap for synching, but I use Magix ProX6 for 3d editing which has an excellent audio synch for parallel tracks. Virtually any sound common to both cameras can be synched without a specific cue signal. It is also surprising how often the cameras start and stop in synch. Good enough for some action stills which the cams take at 14Mps. With synching for the work that I am doing, the worst possible scenario is both cameras being half a frame out, but on UK PAL at 25fps, that is a difference of only 1/50th sec which is just not noticeable.

Tape based cams used to creep in relation to each other which made it virtually impossible to synch more than a few seconds without genlock, but solid state memory has made it much easier for the small events I am involved in.

I also use a pair of Lumix FZ200 mirror less cams for video and stills, which are triggered with a pair of wireless remotes, with one hand controller. I will be adding a pair of Lumix FZ1000 4k cams shortly, as I love the convenience and flexibility of the lens coupled with the l" sensor. The Lumix cams are also small enough to have a useable IO unless really close work is required. I don't usually use DSLRs for 3d as I find them inconvenient for video, but often use a single DSLR for 3d stills.

I have decided to change my editing system to Edius Pro7 for 2d work, but it is also supposed to be very good with 3d editing and will handle 4k better than Magix. I will probably need to find another way to sync the left/right streams as there appears to be no audio sync in Edius, although it does have audio frame adjust.

Roger

Thanks, Roger. That is very helpful. I will be using Sony Vegas Pro (since that is what I am experienced in), which should enable audio synch, and works with 3D.