Panasonic Z10000 3D workflow with Avid soft

[Taivo Glumov]

Hi folks,
How can I get (import or AMA somehow) native 3D files from Panasonic Z10K camera into Avid MC 6.5 3D project?
It seems that Avid MC6.5/Symphony cannot recognize 3D files from Panasonic Z10000. It AMAs them as 2D files not as 3D :(
Any advice would be highly appreciated. I do not want to switch to any other editing program from Avid...
Thanks in advance!

[Juergen Hansen]

Hi,
the MVC to AVI converter from Peter Wimmer (PC based) can open up the MVC container.
You will get uncompressed AVI files (huge data load!) and then you can convert them into the format which you would like to use in Avid.
I tried this workflow to edit afterwards with Apple Pro Res (HQ) files in Final Cut Pro - it works, but it is time consuming.
I see no reason, why it shouldn't work with Avid.
See here: 3dtv.at - MVC to AVI Converter
Good luck!
Jürgen

[Taivo Glumov]

Thanks Juergen,
it looks like the only way for this moment. May be in future Panasonic can provide AMA plug in hopefully.

Now I have a problem with exporting the S3D in readable by 3D BD authoring software format.
I thought to author with Power Director 11.
For some reason Avid keeps exporting L and R channels in separate containers.
Can Avid DVD handle 3D BD? The information is so limited on this topic despite that the technology has been for a while now.
I can not clearly understand which format and which software to use for 3D Blue-ray disk.
Any information and comprehensive advise will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

[Prech Marton]

No need for uncompressed file:
"By default, the converter creates uncompressed AVI files but you can choose a video encoder in the settings dialog to create compressed files"

Taivo: be aware, Powerdirector cannot create profile 5 3DBD disc,
but only for home usage this is of course not a problem.

[Juergen Hansen]

Originally Posted by Taivo Glumov

Thanks Juergen,
it looks like the only way for this moment. May be in future Panasonic can provide AMA plug in hopefully.

Now I have a problem with exporting the S3D in readable by 3D BD authoring software format.
I thought to author with Power Director 11.
For some reason Avid keeps exporting L and R channels in separate containers.
Can Avid DVD handle 3D BD? The information is so limited on this topic despite that the technology has been for a while now.
I can not clearly understand which format and which software to use for 3D Blue-ray disk.
Any information and comprehensive advise will be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!

Hi Taivo,
I am not on Avid but on Final Cut Pro, therefore I can not help with the export settings. But usually it is a simple preset, where you can choose the export format (full, left/right, side-by-side). This should also be like that with Avid. Look into the "format tab" in your project window.
I just googled and found Avid's 3D workflow pdf-file here: http://resources.avid.com/supportfil...flow_Guide.pdf
Have a look at page 112 ff.

As for bluray authoring: If you are on Macintosh - very fast&easy and not expesnive: Roxio Toast Titanium Pro (be sure to buy also the BluRay-PlugIn).

Good luck! Jürgen

[Taivo Glumov]

Hi Juergen!
Thank you very much for your advice!
It is quite a steep learning for 3D.
Not much of information yet on the net. Hopefully it will change soon.
Actually I am a Windows user only.

[Paul Newman]

Hi Taivo,

If you are a windows user, download a 30 day trial of Edius 6.5 - there is nothing to touch it for s3D work, native camera support, real-time and no intermediate file nonsense to deal with.

Just try it... it's free ( for a month anyway) really fast, with great HQ codecs.

Paul :-)

[Matt Faw]

Originally Posted by Taivo Glumov

Hi folks,
How can I get (import or AMA somehow) native 3D files from Panasonic Z10K camera into Avid MC 6.5 3D project?
It seems that Avid MC6.5/Symphony cannot recognize 3D files from Panasonic Z10000. It AMAs them as 2D files not as 3D :(
Any advice would be highly appreciated. I do not want to switch to any other editing program from Avid...
Thanks in advance!

Hi Taivo. I know what you mean, wanting to stick to the NLE you know. There's so much new in 3D, that it's nice to have some familiar tools.

One possible avenue to explore is Cineform, which may allow you to edit your footage without ever demuxing them, saving you a big time consumption and data explosion. I am not that familiar with its workflow, but others on this forum have written very good things about it.

Here's a link to their blog on Avid workflow:
Cineform Tech Blog Blog Archive Avid Support For CineForm Media

[Wolfgang Schmid]

Originally Posted by Taivo Glumov

Not much of information yet on the net. Hopefully it will change soon.
Actually I am a Windows user only.

Not it will not change soon. The s3D hype is over...

If you are a Windwows user, I would look to test Vegas Moviestudio 12 HD Platinum, Vegas Pro 12 or Edius 6.52. This three tools work great with the Z10K footage. The two Vegas tools allow you to generate profile 5 based 3D-Blu rays too.

Between Edius and Vegas there is not soo much difference in terms of s3D - even if I think that the s3D Vegas plugin is slightly bettern then the Edius s3D plugin.

Even if Avid works fine with Cineform (what I cannot assess), I think there is still the drawback that they are not able to generate profile 5 3D Blu-rays really.That may be unimportant if you author your product with high-end tools like Do-Studio or others, but be aware that you have to spend $20.000 for such tools (what makes Vegas Pro 12 attractive with the DVDA 6 in terms of what it offeres for what price - even if it offers lower data rates only).

[Taivo Glumov]

Hi everyone!
Thank you very much for your replies and advices!

I have tried recently Edius trial but not for long. I as usual reinstalled Windows 7 to refresh the run (image restore, of course) - and Edius does not want to start anymore even I have not tried it more than a week (error code 15.0.0)... :(
I assume it has placed somewhere information in slave disks. Such a stupid protection! Even Avid does not do such silly things with their superior and much more expensive software!
It seems that they are paying too much attention to protect their soft at Grassvalley nowadays instead of fixing up all bugs in their Edius... Quite frustrating experience actually. Have spent already a day trying to find a sector where it wrote that information. How do they want us to evaluate their soft if it does not let to finish the evaluation period?

From my short evaluation of Edius: I think I also encountered the same bug which Wolfgang reported previously in http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/3d-stere...ggestions.html!
I imported S3D MVC .MTS from my Panasonic Z10K into Edius 6.52 and ran S3D AutoAdjustment.
Then exported two streams L and R separately and found out that they became of different lengths (around several frames difference)! When I tried to export L and R from untouched .MTS clip using the same Edius I had perfectly the same length clips.
Moreover it seems that Edius somehow staffed up original MVC clip as well.
I thought Edius should not touch original source clip and only reference it as it is logically done in Avid or Sony Vegas...

[Paul Newman]

I observed your slightly angry post on the GV forum!

That error code means you've changed the computer date to try and increase the 30 day period of the trial - Edius stores the information on the 100mb hidden sector on your boot drive - you need to remove the drive and give it a full format, windows does not replace it on a normal format during installation -

I too enjoyed the strange tiny differences in output length of rendered files - very odd, but it had no effect on any other tools I used the files in - including After Effects, Power Director, Scenarist via Cinevision, DCP Creator, Vegas 12, Nukex......

I've never had a source file altered by Edius in 8 years, it simply does not happen -

I should stick with Avid if you prefer it -

Paul :-)

[Taivo Glumov]

Hi Paul,
I was not angry just felt frustrated. No, I did not change the date. Unfortunately Edius stores cluster information about its existence on all attached HDDs or SSDs and not only on a Boot Drive... If I disconnect all slave HDDs I can reinstall it as many times as I want. But I could not be able to use my HDDs with source clips. I believe it is a very strange approach of GrassValley software engineers to mark around everything in a system with their stuff.

Then about L & R lengths change - I tried to create a thread about the problem on Grass Valley forum, but it did not pass moderation for unknown reason and has not appear on forum. I do not know how to contact them to leave feedback about Edius and may be to ask whether they are aware about a problem or they just ignore it or they have not been able to fix it or else.
Some current powerful encoders wont accept streams of different length to encode MVC I have heard by the way. So if exported L and R happen to be of different lengths it becomes really annoying to deal sometimes.

It seems that at present it is not possible to stick only to one NLE as Avid. For example Avid cannot not export large AVIs for unexplained reason so far. (it is quite ridiculous actually.) No MVC support and some other limitations.
It would be really good to have all in-one program product without the need to jump across several (usually quite expensive) applications.

Anyway to summarize my winging here:
It would be beneficial to everyone to exchange their experience in a new field of S3D workflow I believe. Certainly people will find their own "know hows" of S3D process in NLEs through trial and error but a lot of time will be wasted... :)

[Matt Faw]

Originally Posted by Taivo Glumov

Hi Paul,
It would be beneficial to everyone to exchange their experience in a new field of S3D workflow I believe. Certainly people will find their own "know hows" of S3D process in NLEs through trial and error but a lot of time will be wasted... :)

How right you are, and that's been of the great exchanges here. It's probably the single most consistent topic on this board, so if there's any NLE workflow you're interested in, you can easily find past threads on it.