MVC files to SIDE BY SIDE??!

[Joseph Clark]

As far as I know, MVCtoAVI is fully functional as a trial. You may not have all the codecs you need on your system. Cineform codecs costs money. If you want, you can use the free Matrox codecs. I've used the Matrox MPEG2HD codec at 120-150 mbps and it seems close to Cineform "High." Both will increase file size by 8 to 10 times the original.

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

yes i think that was the issue.. not having all the codecs .. i'm working on them now- i hope that helps

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

still having this issue with thE JVC and its MVC file format...

apparently they are using a slight different algorithm then the SONY/PANNY

[Bruce Schultz]

Saturnin, I've been reading that the new Edius NLE version handles all the MVC formats natively. I'm pretty sure there's a 30 day fully functioning trial available for download, so why not try it out and see if it works for you? With all the troubles you've been having it might be the best solution so far. Too bad JVC doesn't give you any software options with the camera that are usable.

[Joseph Clark]

The Edius 3D trial has been great. It imports the JVC files and works with them right in the timeline - no conversion necessary. It won't let you export directly to Blu-ray 3D, but that can be accomplished by exporting MVC files and importing them into PowerDirector 10. There, you can add 3D menus and export to Blu-ray 3D. I'm still not sure how to maintain the highest bitrate in PD10, but otherwise the process is smooth and painless. Today is the last day you can do the crossgrade from other NLEs to Edius for half price. Of course, that could be extended.

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

thank you all for the help

this is what i have figured out so far -i work on PC with Premiere - AND IT WORKS like a GEM, that is if MVC file format playback was used in everything, but it is not. :( at least not yet.

JVC TD1 3D EVERIO -MVC file format can be played back/edited via PREMIERE 5.5.
After editing the MVC footage in Premiere 5.5 i can export it as either a h264/mov file/mpeg2 Take that file into POWER DVD 11 and it will play in 3d with AMAZING QUALITY. I can edit in MVC without having to change over to L/R and or SIDE BY SIDE.

The 2 problems that i have are these.

Issue 1: I need to be able to have a SIDEbySIDE file to play on current 3D TV's, but they do not support the MVC format. The current TV's to my knowledge and some testing, only accept the SIDE BY SIDE image, then the TV does the up converting - if i am wrong on this, please chime in if i'm missing something.

Issue 2: Most people who have a 3D computer are most likely using the NVIDIA setup, now, the NVIDIA software is so cluttered and is so user unfriendly that im not sure what they were thinking with it. Anyone agree? It is very furstrating to navigate it and get 3D to work. Also the NVIDIA software does not play back MVC files. Which is a problem.


thanks everyone .. hope we can all help eachother

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

question about the Edius 3D software - does it allow you to export the MVC after as either a SIDEbySIDE or L/R images?

this is my main hurdle right now, i need to be able to provide content for current 3D televisions.(if you read my post above i talk about it)

Current 3D tv's only to my knowledge support the crappy SIDEbySIDE format, so the issue is that, i have to encode the MVC into SIDEbySIDE, but each time i try to do it with the software that's out there, the quality is terrible and the 3D effect gets lost. There is no one solution to take that MVC(edited or not) and spit out a proper SIDEbySIDE or L/R images, at least to my knowledge. I tried MVCtoAVi and cineform and so far i'm getting really crappy results- maybe i'm doing something wrong?

Also having to encode and recode is as you guys know a pain in the ass and just adds another step to the editing process that could possibly be fixed if someone could get a piece of software out that lets u edit the MVC and after you can choose to export the edited file into the other appropriate formats.


I know that cineform has some decent software out but that software is not yet coded to support the JVC's MVC format. Cineform can take your L/R images and mux it and it looks good.It just cant handle exporting the JVC MVC to a decent SIDEbySIDE or L/R.

this is the problem with being one of the first to adapt to a new tech, lot of figuring stuff out.. heh

[Joseph Clark]

Originally Posted by Saturnin Kondratiew

thank you all for the help

this is what i have figured out so far -i work on PC with Premiere - AND IT WORKS like a GEM, that is if MVC file format playback was used in everything, but it is not. :( at least not yet.

JVC TD1 3D EVERIO -MVC file format can be played back/edited via PREMIERE 5.5.
After editing the MVC footage in Premiere 5.5 i can export it as either a h264/mov file/mpeg2 Take that file into POWER DVD 11 and it will play in 3d with AMAZING QUALITY. I can edit in MVC without having to change over to L/R and or SIDE BY SIDE.

The 2 problems that i have are these.

Issue 1: I need to be able to have a SIDEbySIDE file to play on current 3D TV's, but they do not support the MVC format. The current TV's to my knowledge and some testing, only accept the SIDE BY SIDE image, then the TV does the up converting - if i am wrong on this, please chime in if i'm missing something.

Issue 2: Most people who have a 3D computer are most likely using the NVIDIA setup, now, the NVIDIA software is so cluttered and is so user unfriendly that im not sure what they were thinking with it. Anyone agree? It is very furstrating to navigate it and get 3D to work. Also the NVIDIA software does not play back MVC files. Which is a problem.


thanks everyone .. hope we can all help eachother

Lots of food for thought there. First of all, I wasn't aware that Adobe had added native support for MVC files in Premiere 5.5. I'll have to see that. Second, how are you getting PowerDVD to play those files in 3D? If you're engaging the 2D to 3D conversion feature, that's not real 3D. I wasn't aware that PDVD could play 3D files natively.

Modern 3D TVs support side by side, top/bottom, sometimes checkerboard, sometimes other formats, and they definitely support Blu-ray 3D (at 1920x1080 24p and 1280x720 60p). Most of the TVs (maybe all of them) also support the MVC format (1920x1080 60i 3D - what JVC calls "frame packing for interlace"), as long as you send it straight from the camcorder via HDMI. The JVC camcorder has no problem with this.

The workflow from camcorder to Blu-ray 3D is fairly simple, although it can be cumbersome in practice. If you have the HMZ1 (if I had it anyway), I'd shoot at 24p, pull the files into Edius to edit, export as a left/right MVC file and burn with menus to Blu-ray 3D in PowerDirector 10. Hopefully, the final version of Edius will include the ability to burn to 3D disc directly, at which point everything can be done there. Since I own the TD1, Edius converts my files from 60i to 24p, and it does it quite well. Other than that, my workflow is the same as the one I just outlined.

In the past, I've used MVCtoAVI to split the files, pulled them into FirstLight (Cineform Neo), converted them to their intermediate and then sent them to either Sony Vegas Pro or PowerDirector 10, for burning to Blu-ray 3D. The downside there is that the files become very large, and the process is time consuming and chews up hard drive space. I plan to stay with Edius, at least until Sony or Adobe supports the JVC files natively. If that happens I'll re-evaluate. Right now, though, I really like Edius and the much simplified workflow.

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

looks like the EDIUS 3D software does the trick :) - still in beta/bug mode but its all goode

now i have to learn how to use it and make simple cuts haahahahah

thanks everyone, this software looks like a great tool - until Premiere gets on board and allows for proper 3D exporting :)

thank you everyone for the tips

[Prech Marton]

So with TD1 we don't get this L-R extract utility?
Joseph: are you satisfied with the TD1 quality? Isn't grainy a little?
Is it better in lowlight than Sony TD10?
thx

[Paul Newman]

Anyone had results with Edius - PD10 - 3DBD with menus ??

Paul :-)

[Prech Marton]

Edius 3D works here great, even with 3d vision previewing.
Not tested the rendered files with PD10, because it is so slooow by me.
(have to upgrade to i5-quick sync)

[Marcello Mazzilli]

Hi.. some time has passed after the opening of this post... Still no MVC exporter (at least for Mac)....

I am doing some tests (shoot in MVC, edit twin HD and render SbS)...

SbS looks darker... Shall I just pull up the light? If so easy why don't TV sets like mine (Samsun 8000) that open both formats just turn luminance on in SbS mode ? I think there is more... Being less definition.. should I enhance contrast too (the 3D effect seems weaker) ? Also.. should I shoot with more parallax if I know I'll be rendering the final video in SbS mode?

What else are we loosing in 3D with half resolution ?

Being the 3D an effect relative to the fact that we have to eyes displayed horizontaly (one next to another) should I use the Top to Bottom method (like side by side but the two images are squashed verticali) ? At least I would have more horizontal resolution (that's where 3d happens no?).

But.. is it a "standard" as SbS ? My TV has it.. but what about the rest of the world?

Any other suggestion in improving SbS compared to the wonderfull MVC directly from the camera?

Thanks

[Wolfgang Schmid]

You are talking about side-by-side-HALF, what is a standard. It is used by broadcast stations to deliver 3D content to the homes. But for sure with a slightly reduced resolution (rememeber: it is the half - but it is better then one would expect due to the fact that our brains generate a better picture when fusing the two pictures).

There is also side-by-side-FULL, but that is not a standard for HDTVs. But one can use the stereoscopic player to playback such footage from a PC to a HDTV or Beamter. At least for one location or home that can work fine, it can also be used for larger presentations. But it is hard to handover the film to somebody else if he does not have that equipment.

You know, sbs half can be played back with EVERY 2D-BD-Player, and all what one has to do is to switch the 3D-HDTV to sbs. You can also author that with every 2D authoring software. But you will not maintain the full resolution - for that you need MVC or sbs-FULL.

Your choice. :)

So what people tend to do is to produce for different presentation hardware. For example, if you use the stereoscopic player and two beamers, you should be aware that the frequence of the beamers should suit to the fps you capture with. So here it can be an advantage to shoot (in the PAL areas) with 25p, if you have a beamer that can be run since you can convert that to 50i in a nice way, but since it can suit nice to the beamers if it can be run in 50 Hz or 100 Hz. If you produce for 3D-BD, it is a good idea to shoot in 1080 24p.

[Marcello Mazzilli]

thanks... Certainly I'll produce in Full 3D (that means keeping the two streams full 1920)... The SbS option is just for export... what I was wondering is if the version with vertically squashed HDs on on top of the other is still "standard" (my TV has it) as I think it could work better (but maybe I am wrong).. and also I wanted confirmation that SbS is darker (or maybe is just my impression due to lack of resolution).
I got your other message about Sony Vegas.... I'll see.. I wanted to keep all in Mac because I use Mac.. but if a job comes in I'll have to get a PC + Vegas.... I can use bootcamp but is a mess.. Once PC antivirus killed my Mac files