Panasonic HDC-Z10000 3D Camcorder announced

[Juergen Hansen]

Hi,
in regard of conversion of the Z10000 files to edit in FCP - so far you have only the option to go via a PC editing system.
Maybe a friend with a PC can help out.

Then you have the cheap option of Peter Wimmer - but it will convert into AVI and you will get lots of data.
Another PC option is, using Sony Vegas (the latest) to split the MVC and then output into a format you can import into Final Cut.
A cheap PC editing software I saw, which was recommended in a Forum, is Cyberlink Power Director 10 - I did not use it, but on their Website (PowerDirector 10 - the world?s fastest video editing software) they show a lot of different output formats.

In regard of splitting the HDMI 1.4 signal into two SDI (to feed the NanoFlash 3D) I would also be v.e.r.y. interested to hear a solution. We will have a huge 3D project coming up and we are planning to use the Z10000 and other cameras. But having the possibility to split the HDMI 1.4 would be fantastic.

All the best,
Jürgen

[Neil Richards]

Thanks, I'm aware of both Sony Vegas 10 and Power Director but I'd rather not have to buy an entire new editing suite however inexpensive (which will also require either a new PC or Parallels+Win7 to run) if I can find another solution :)

It seems such an obvious thing that I can't help but think Panasonic will produce a small utility to handle the file format conversion before too long, as they did with mts support for FCP.

There are HDMI-to-SDI convertors available but they are all HDMI 1.3 2D, haven't found a 3D version yet. Surely someone must be working on this - the AJA Hi5 is a great piece of kit, it just needs to work bidirectionally :) or at least bring a companion product out that works in reverse...

Neil

[Neil Richards]

Come to think of it, when are we going to see an HDMI 1.4a video recorder? As far as I know only the new Gemini can do stereo as a single unit but it's HD-SDI only - the HDMI is only for monitoring.

Plus the fact you could buy 2 or 3 Z10000's for the cost of one 3D Gemini....

[Wolfgang Schmid]

What about the Decklink HD Extreme 3D?

Blackmagic Design: DeckLink HD Extreme

Not cheap, but runs with a Mac too.

[Neil Richards]

Yep, one of those, in a small box, battery powered, with a removable SSD drive :)

Call me fussy, but I don't want to lug a PC/Mac/Laptop around in the field just to record.

[Neil Richards]

This is closer:

Blackmagic Design: UltraStudio 3D

All it really needs is to be able to hang a standalone hard drive off it instead of needing a Macbook or PC.

I don't understand why camera manufacturers don't build ext hard drive support into their cameras - the new Pannie HPX250 can do it but that's the only one I know.

Still, an Ultrastudio3D plus a Thunderbolt-equipped Macbook capturing uncompressed 3D QT files from the Z10000 via it's HDMI output would be nice, although not terribly portable.

Neil

[Wolfgang Schmid]

Yes, could be a nice solution... would be great to know if that works.

[Neil Richards]

I've looked into it a bit more and think the following might work:

Z10000 >> HDMI 1.4 >> BMD Ultrastudio3D >> 2 x HD-SDI out >> 2 x Samurai or 2 x BMD Shuttle2

I don't think you need to go Thunderbolt into the Mac from the Ultrastudio3D at all, you could just go out via it's two SDI ports because as far as I know this is one of the few boxes that does HDMI >> SDI conversion and the only one I know that does it with frame-packed 3D HDMI 1.4a.

So total solution cost is $995 + 2 x ($1500) or about $4k maybe less on the street, so much cheaper than either a Nano3D or a Gemini.

Of course, you could buy a lot of PC's to run Edius or Vegas on for that but we are talking ProRes or DNxHD quality output here.

I'll see if I can get hold of these bits of kit and try it out when I get the Z1000 next week

Neil

[Juergen Hansen]

"Z10000 >> HDMI 1.4 >> BMD Ultrastudio3D >> 2 x HD-SDI out >> 2 x Samurai or 2 x BMD Shuttle2"

Hi Neil,
that's exactly, what I thought, when I looked at the spec's of the BMD Ultrastudio3D. But don't you think, this is a bit complicated? How do you sync the two Samurai's? They will record their own Timecode as far as I know.
I think, I will rent/borrow a PC with either Vegas or another software which can split MCV and output what I need.
Of course it's a pain. Why isn't Panasonic providing a software for Mac which is splitting the MCV files?
I'll be in contact with them in Germany during the week and will ask them.
Or someone is coming up with a hardware solution to split the HDMI 1.4 out of the Z10000 into left/right...
Best regards,
Jürgen

[Neil Richards]

Juergen, you're right, just splitting the AVCHD files needn't be this complex and I wouldn't do this just to edit AVCHD 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised if Panasonic are writing an MVC to L/R utility as they did with MTS support for FCP but who knows when it will be ready? I have asked this question as well and will be visiting their UK offices on Feb 1st but if you could find out from them in Germany that would be great.

However, I'm also interested in bypassing the camera compression and going straight to Pro-res or uncompressed as I suspect the quality of the new sensor in the Z10000 is superb (even though it is still 8-bit) so this is a bit of thinking aloud.

Cheers

Neil

[Wolfgang Schmid]

I still think that you have be aware that all the issues you mention do not exist for the PC world. For the PC world, we got Vegas Pro 11 who recocnises the native MVC files from the Z10000 in a fine way as 3D streams. We got Cyberlinks Powerdirector 10 - can also handle the Z10000 files. And we will have Edius 3D what is now available as Preview-Version build 4.

The hardware solution can be great, also for the PC user if you wish to captures the footage without compression. But still a little bit expensive.... :)

[Neil Richards]

Maybe I'm missing something, Wolfgang, but why is it so difficult for video software producers to make a universal binary that runs on both PC and Mac? Most of the rest of the industry seems to manage it. The distinction between Mac and PC from that point of view disappeared years ago when Apple switched to Intel processors.

[Wolfgang Schmid]

To my opinion, Jobs did great in the early days when he developed the first Mac with a graphical interface (an idea that he "got" from Canon when I remember right, as you can read in his biography). But they failed to open their standard - and that was the opportunity for the PC world to become significant stronger in the long run - in terms of number of user and number of PCs sold.

Maybe the answer today is that due to that it is more attractive to develop such niche-solutions (as 3D editing is still today) for the PC world, as done by Sony Creative Consulting, Cyberlink or now Grass Valley. That is fine, but for sure I do not know if there is any MVC-decoder but also MVC-encoder that runs on the Mac - but that is what you need to edit 3D footage from the Z10000).

Unfortunately that does not help really. I wish you that somebody will develop that.

[Neil Richards]

These guys seem to have one:

MVC SDK: MainConcept

Says Win/OSX/Linux support although a post said it was $4k...

[Saturnin Kondratiew]

has anyone tried EDIUS 3D for editing these files?

also - to anyone who has/used this camera. Does it record to MVC in one file, or do u have to record to two cards one for L one for R?

thanks