AF100 for 3D use? at DVinfo.net

Dylan Couper · October 6th, 2010, 10:56 AM

Hey 3D guys. This may be my first post in this section..!

What do you all think of the upcoming Panasonic AF100 for 3D use?

Tim Dashwood · October 6th, 2010, 02:30 PM

Paired with a nanoFlash recorder and PL-mount adapters these cameras could make a very inexpensive alternative (with less latitude and bit-depth of course) to the Arri Alexa or Red. The micro4/3 sensor size is very close to super-35. The side grip and top handle are also removable.
AG-AF100 Microsite at Panasonic

However, for 3D it looks like there is no genlock or TC slave capability so a two-camera configuration may be impractical unless Panasonic is working on a remote cable to handle shutter sync and start/stop that we don't know about.

The one interesting thing about it though is that it should be compatible with the consumer division's micro4/3 3D lens. Half resolution per eye but still an interesting idea. Panasonic's 3D lens for Micro 4/3 cameras (photos) - CNET News

Dylan Couper · October 6th, 2010, 03:11 PM

What are you... some sort of 3D expert or something?

:)

Was hoping you'd chime in. I assumed that the removable handle was so they could be used for 3D easier, but didn't see anything about genlock on it either. I figured you'd have gone over the 3D possibilities for it with a fine tooth comb by now, sure hope they are making a remote synch cable!

Good point about the 4/3 3D lens, I'd forgotten about that.

Jan Crittenden Livingston · October 17th, 2010, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

However, for 3D it looks like there is no genlock or TC slave capability so a two-camera configuration may be impractical unless Panasonic is working on a remote cable to handle shutter sync and start/stop that we don't know about.

Hi Tim, You can jam timecode on the AF100 by sending it to the video out connection and having the menu look at it.

Hope that helps,

Jan

Tim Dashwood · October 17th, 2010, 05:17 PM

Thanks Jan. The TC slave solution sounds interesting and I look forward to checking it out as soon units are available here. If the composite port can be used for TC can it also be used for genlock sync?

Also, I noticed the other day that the sensor is capable of 1080p60 sampling and variable frame rate under/overcrank capture. I know that the camera can't create a 1080p60 AVCCAM file but can the signal be output live to the HD-SDI at 3G bitrate or HDMI? If so, this would be a somewhat practical way to use two AF100s in a beamsplitter without the necessity for perfect genlock (for most situations not involving fast action.) I would already use two of these cameras in 720p60 with a nano3D but 1080p60 would be the icing on the cake for those of us with Kona3 or Decklink Extreme 3D cards.

Bruce Schultz · October 25th, 2010, 12:56 PM

Timecode sync would not be the same as genlock or shutter sync. I've been hearing reports that Martin Scorsese is filming a 3D feature in London with Arri Alexa's and they have to shutter sync to make the cameras work because they are not yet equipped with genlock capability. So unless the AF100 has either shutter sync or genlock capabilities, I fail to see how two of them might work in a 3D rig except to do still photo HDR.

Tim Dashwood · October 25th, 2010, 07:58 PM

The Alexas have a special cable that allows them to sync shutters and also genlocks the outputs. The genlock wasn't working until the firmware update that was released by Arri on Sept 1. I found that out the hard way when I did my Alexa 3D test. I had to send the signals through the JVC IF2D3D1 because it will frame synchronize non-genlocked signals. The Blackmagic HDLink Pro 3D and Stereobrain won't mix without perfect genlock sync.

As for most other cameras the shutters are synced by virtue of providing a trisync signal to the genlock in. If Panasonic could use the composite output port and repurpose it in the menu for genlock sync then the cameras would be appropriate for 3D. This is what I was asking Jan about but I suspect we won't know anything until the instruction manual pdf is released on their site.

Alternatively if the HDMI could supply a live 1080p60 signal then it would be conceivably possible to capture 60p to a nano3D without too many issues. You would need really really fast action to cause bad temporal disparities at 60p. 24p can be pulled very easily from 60p.

Bruce Schultz · October 26th, 2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

If Panasonic could use the composite output port and repurpose it in the menu for genlock sync then the cameras would be appropriate for 3D. .

Tim, how would you connect the two cameras together for genlock or shutter sync in a 3D rig? Do they have a suitable input connector(s) to do this?

Tim Dashwood · October 26th, 2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Schultz

Tim, how would you connect the two cameras together for genlock or shutter sync in a 3D rig? Do they have a suitable input connector(s) to do this?

This is what we are hoping to find out soon. Even Canon added genlock to their XF105 so it doesn't seem unreasonable to hope for a solution from Panasonic, especially since they seem to understand the 3D market so well.

Eugen Oprina · January 13th, 2011, 03:43 PM

Hi,
Any news regarding the option to sync two AF 101 for 3D shooting?
Is it feasible?
Thanks,
Eugen

Bruce Schultz · January 18th, 2011, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugen Oprina

Hi,
Any news regarding the option to sync two AF 101 for 3D shooting?
Is it feasible?
Thanks,
Eugen

Speaking only for myself, I've pre-ordered two Sony F3 cameras which, although higher in cost, incorporate all of the necessary ingredients for professional 3D work. Generally speaking, waiting for an add-on like genlock from any manufacturer is futile, and if there's one true, hard, and immutable rule of 3D camera production it is the absolute necessity of camera genlock.

Eugen Oprina · January 18th, 2011, 04:47 PM

Bruce,
I didn't make the step towards sony. I'm still hoping that pany is giving us a solution. On the other hand even if they provide a work around for genlock I may put the money on sony's high sensitivity and noiseless sensor. I don't know, I need to see more tests with final versions of both cameras.
Anyway, I respect your courage to jump in so quick.
Patient :),
Eugen

Alister Chapman · January 19th, 2011, 02:48 AM

Bruce isn't the only one going down the F3 route.

The 3D link feature will be fantastic. A single cable providing shutter sync and also allowing one camera to control the other giving matched clip names, timecode, record start and stop, gain settings etc and even full studio remote via one cable.

I've got mine on order too.

October 6th, 2010, 10:56 AM	#1
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	AF100 for 3D use? Hey 3D guys. This may be my first post in this section..! What do you all think of the upcoming Panasonic AF100 for 3D use? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 6th, 2010, 02:30 PM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Paired with a nanoFlash recorder and PL-mount adapters these cameras could make a very inexpensive alternative (with less latitude and bit-depth of course) to the Arri Alexa or Red. The micro4/3 sensor size is very close to super-35. The side grip and top handle are also removable. AG-AF100 Microsite at Panasonic However, for 3D it looks like there is no genlock or TC slave capability so a two-camera configuration may be impractical unless Panasonic is working on a remote cable to handle shutter sync and start/stop that we don't know about. The one interesting thing about it though is that it should be compatible with the consumer division's micro4/3 3D lens. Half resolution per eye but still an interesting idea. Panasonic's 3D lens for Micro 4/3 cameras (photos) - CNET News __________________ Tim Dashwood

October 6th, 2010, 03:11 PM	#3
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	What are you... some sort of 3D expert or something? :) Was hoping you'd chime in. I assumed that the removable handle was so they could be used for 3D easier, but didn't see anything about genlock on it either. I figured you'd have gone over the 3D possibilities for it with a fine tooth comb by now, sure hope they are making a remote synch cable! Good point about the 4/3 3D lens, I'd forgotten about that. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 17th, 2010, 05:17 PM	#5
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Thanks Jan. The TC slave solution sounds interesting and I look forward to checking it out as soon units are available here. If the composite port can be used for TC can it also be used for genlock sync? Also, I noticed the other day that the sensor is capable of 1080p60 sampling and variable frame rate under/overcrank capture. I know that the camera can't create a 1080p60 AVCCAM file but can the signal be output live to the HD-SDI at 3G bitrate or HDMI? If so, this would be a somewhat practical way to use two AF100s in a beamsplitter without the necessity for perfect genlock (for most situations not involving fast action.) I would already use two of these cameras in 720p60 with a nano3D but 1080p60 would be the icing on the cake for those of us with Kona3 or Decklink Extreme 3D cards. __________________ Tim Dashwood

October 25th, 2010, 07:58 PM	#7
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The Alexas have a special cable that allows them to sync shutters and also genlocks the outputs. The genlock wasn't working until the firmware update that was released by Arri on Sept 1. I found that out the hard way when I did my Alexa 3D test. I had to send the signals through the JVC IF2D3D1 because it will frame synchronize non-genlocked signals. The Blackmagic HDLink Pro 3D and Stereobrain won't mix without perfect genlock sync. As for most other cameras the shutters are synced by virtue of providing a trisync signal to the genlock in. If Panasonic could use the composite output port and repurpose it in the menu for genlock sync then the cameras would be appropriate for 3D. This is what I was asking Jan about but I suspect we won't know anything until the instruction manual pdf is released on their site. Alternatively if the HDMI could supply a live 1080p60 signal then it would be conceivably possible to capture 60p to a nano3D without too many issues. You would need really really fast action to cause bad temporal disparities at 60p. 24p can be pulled very easily from 60p. __________________ Tim Dashwood

October 25th, 2010, 12:56 PM	#6
Bruce Schultz Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Malibu, CA Posts: 480	Timecode sync would not be the same as genlock or shutter sync. I've been hearing reports that Martin Scorsese is filming a 3D feature in London with Arri Alexa's and they have to shutter sync to make the cameras work because they are not yet equipped with genlock capability. So unless the AF100 has either shutter sync or genlock capabilities, I fail to see how two of them might work in a 3D rig except to do still photo HDR.

January 13th, 2011, 03:43 PM	#10
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Hi, Any news regarding the option to sync two AF 101 for 3D shooting? Is it feasible? Thanks, Eugen

January 18th, 2011, 04:47 PM	#12
Eugen Oprina Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bucharest Romania Posts: 221	Bruce, I didn't make the step towards sony. I'm still hoping that pany is giving us a solution. On the other hand even if they provide a work around for genlock I may put the money on sony's high sensitivity and noiseless sensor. I don't know, I need to see more tests with final versions of both cameras. Anyway, I respect your courage to jump in so quick. Patient :), Eugen

January 19th, 2011, 02:48 AM	#13
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Bruce isn't the only one going down the F3 route. The 3D link feature will be fantastic. A single cable providing shutter sync and also allowing one camera to control the other giving matched clip names, timecode, record start and stop, gain settings etc and even full studio remote via one cable. I've got mine on order too. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com