Problems Outputting files with the Stereo 3D toolbox at DVinfo.net

Carlton Bright · December 7th, 2009, 06:48 PM

After going though numerous tests, combinations of settings, formats, etc. throughout the last week, the ability to output side-by-side Stereoptical files has still been elusive.
I tried using the ProRes Options that a fellow 3-D videographer recommended,
and also converted digital files from my older Canon 3-D setup, and even the new Kodak Zi8 3 setup, (which offers a choice of formats). I am using the 3840x1080 slug setup that tim describes, and it still produces the problematic distortions, frozen and non-rendering timeline that can be seen at the end of the video I uploaded on the previous thread.
Question:
Is there a very specific setting/format/frame rate-combination required to export side-by-side Stereoptical files when using the Stereo3D toolbox filter?
After working and getting so familier with this product over the last week, I would purchase it in an instant, but
I cannot seem to find the combination of settings to output a single Stereoptical side-by-side file at this point.
Any thoughts or advice would be warmly appreciated.
Carlton Bright

Carlton Bright · December 8th, 2009, 06:37 AM

It occurred to me this problem could be something much more fundamental.
The video associate that had highly recommended this product and used the toolkit successfully on two projects, knew that I use a Macbook-pro, (and had been to my studio), but they probably did not know the onboard graphic card on the Macbook-pro may not be able to handle the Stereo3D Toolkit...and unfortunately, a third party graphics card cannot be installed on a laptop.
This fundamental oversight is an embarrassing thing, but since the laptops have become so capable and ubiquitous, it may happen to others too. Maybe in the future at some time, it could be helpful to new people and potential buyers, if the symptoms I ran into were described on a simple "Troubleshooting" list, so others will not presume the toolkit does not function, and/or can be spared a similar, "well-duh" goose chase if they
really want to use it.

(In hindsight, the problem pointed to the graphics card because the symptoms were identical even when the SLUG was made to the default size.)

BTW- being out of the computer purchasing loop for a while now, what would be a recommended computer and graphics card for using the Stereo 3D Toolkit at this point in time?
Thanks again,
Carlton Bright

Tim Dashwood · December 8th, 2009, 04:14 PM

Hi Carlton.

Yes the graphics card will have a huge impact on FCP's rendering frame size limitation.
I have 512MB of VRAM in a MacPro and even it struggles through such large pixel dimensions.

I think the best solution for you on a Macbook Pro will be the external app I've developed for your goal of a double wide movie file for two projectors. It requires little processing horsepower to create the file, but will require quite a bit for smooth playback. I can email you a beta version if you PM me your email address.

Carlton Bright · December 11th, 2009, 08:00 AM

Hi Tim,
Thank you for sending the Beta of the Muxing script.
It works fine for a QT version 7, but not for the QT version 10, which comes with Snow Leopard, and which is needed for clean, side-by-side steroptical video projection.
also, one goal was to be able to utilitize the Stereo3D toolbox, and it is still not possible to output unsqueezed side by side using the toolbox.
The results are still Identical to the distorted image in the left and right well, and the frozen, unscrub-able timeline as shown in the video in the first thread. Could it be that 512MB VRAM must be the minimium required to use the toolbox on a laptop?
It seems alot of laptops come with only 256 MB VRAM.(which I have.)
Maybe in the future they will make an external video-card for the laptops...

Tim Dashwood · December 11th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Quicktime X is still very limited compared to Quicktime 7. Luckily Snow Leopard does still ship with Quicktime 7, it is an optional install on the Snow Leopard DVD or you can download it from the Apple site. It can coexist with Quicktime X but you will need it to be authorized as "pro" which happens when you install Final Cut Studio.

I guess the problem I was trying to solve with the muxing app is the possible inability for a laptop graphics card to process render a 4K frame in FCP via FxPlug. Also, using Quicktime to marry two full res outputs will be much faster then doing it within FCP.

Carlton Bright · December 12th, 2009, 11:25 AM

Thats interesting, it sounds like the bottleneck it the FxPlug, because I can export
projectable and stutter-less side by side video, but not when using the Toolkit, which I presume requires the FXPlug. Will The Toolkit ever not need the FxPlug?

And to clarify a numbers question:
Although I have not been able to export video using the ToolKit, I am still able to export projectable side-by-side stereoptical video by syncing, aligning, balancing etc by hand, and then exporting the (very compressing) H.264 as the codec, (which may be the reason the laptop is able to do is at this point.)

The question is this:
Is a 4K frame always the same, regardless of the codec?

Tim Dashwood · December 12th, 2009, 01:21 PM

FxPlug is one of two languages filter/transition plugins are written in for FCP. FxScript is the older language, but not compatible with Motion.

FxFactory utilizes the processing power of your graphics card and Quartz. In fact, Stereo3D Toolbox is actually written as a Quartz Composition and then compiled into a FxPlug UI via FxFactory Pro.

You can turn off graphics card VRAM processing in order to process 4K within FCP (launch FxFactory preferences and switch FxPlug rendering from video memory to main memory) but rendering will slow waaaaaay down.

December 7th, 2009, 06:48 PM	#1
Carlton Bright Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 101	Problems Outputting files with the Stereo 3D toolbox After going though numerous tests, combinations of settings, formats, etc. throughout the last week, the ability to output side-by-side Stereoptical files has still been elusive. I tried using the ProRes Options that a fellow 3-D videographer recommended, and also converted digital files from my older Canon 3-D setup, and even the new Kodak Zi8 3 setup, (which offers a choice of formats). I am using the 3840x1080 slug setup that tim describes, and it still produces the problematic distortions, frozen and non-rendering timeline that can be seen at the end of the video I uploaded on the previous thread. Question: Is there a very specific setting/format/frame rate-combination required to export side-by-side Stereoptical files when using the Stereo3D toolbox filter? After working and getting so familier with this product over the last week, I would purchase it in an instant, but I cannot seem to find the combination of settings to output a single Stereoptical side-by-side file at this point. Any thoughts or advice would be warmly appreciated. Carlton Bright

December 8th, 2009, 06:37 AM	#2
Carlton Bright Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 101	It occurred to me this problem could be something much more fundamental. The video associate that had highly recommended this product and used the toolkit successfully on two projects, knew that I use a Macbook-pro, (and had been to my studio), but they probably did not know the onboard graphic card on the Macbook-pro may not be able to handle the Stereo3D Toolkit...and unfortunately, a third party graphics card cannot be installed on a laptop. This fundamental oversight is an embarrassing thing, but since the laptops have become so capable and ubiquitous, it may happen to others too. Maybe in the future at some time, it could be helpful to new people and potential buyers, if the symptoms I ran into were described on a simple "Troubleshooting" list, so others will not presume the toolkit does not function, and/or can be spared a similar, "well-duh" goose chase if they really want to use it. (In hindsight, the problem pointed to the graphics card because the symptoms were identical even when the SLUG was made to the default size.) BTW- being out of the computer purchasing loop for a while now, what would be a recommended computer and graphics card for using the Stereo 3D Toolkit at this point in time? Thanks again, Carlton Bright Last edited by Carlton Bright; December 8th, 2009 at 07:15 AM.

December 8th, 2009, 04:14 PM	#3
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Hi Carlton. Yes the graphics card will have a huge impact on FCP's rendering frame size limitation. I have 512MB of VRAM in a MacPro and even it struggles through such large pixel dimensions. I think the best solution for you on a Macbook Pro will be the external app I've developed for your goal of a double wide movie file for two projectors. It requires little processing horsepower to create the file, but will require quite a bit for smooth playback. I can email you a beta version if you PM me your email address. __________________ Tim Dashwood

December 11th, 2009, 08:00 AM	#4
Carlton Bright Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 101	Hi Tim, Thank you for sending the Beta of the Muxing script. It works fine for a QT version 7, but not for the QT version 10, which comes with Snow Leopard, and which is needed for clean, side-by-side steroptical video projection. also, one goal was to be able to utilitize the Stereo3D toolbox, and it is still not possible to output unsqueezed side by side using the toolbox. The results are still Identical to the distorted image in the left and right well, and the frozen, unscrub-able timeline as shown in the video in the first thread. Could it be that 512MB VRAM must be the minimium required to use the toolbox on a laptop? It seems alot of laptops come with only 256 MB VRAM.(which I have.) Maybe in the future they will make an external video-card for the laptops... Last edited by Carlton Bright; December 11th, 2009 at 08:33 AM.

December 11th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#5
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Quicktime X is still very limited compared to Quicktime 7. Luckily Snow Leopard does still ship with Quicktime 7, it is an optional install on the Snow Leopard DVD or you can download it from the Apple site. It can coexist with Quicktime X but you will need it to be authorized as "pro" which happens when you install Final Cut Studio. I guess the problem I was trying to solve with the muxing app is the possible inability for a laptop graphics card to process render a 4K frame in FCP via FxPlug. Also, using Quicktime to marry two full res outputs will be much faster then doing it within FCP. __________________ Tim Dashwood

December 12th, 2009, 11:25 AM	#6
Carlton Bright Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 101	Thats interesting, it sounds like the bottleneck it the FxPlug, because I can export projectable and stutter-less side by side video, but not when using the Toolkit, which I presume requires the FXPlug. Will The Toolkit ever not need the FxPlug? And to clarify a numbers question: Although I have not been able to export video using the ToolKit, I am still able to export projectable side-by-side stereoptical video by syncing, aligning, balancing etc by hand, and then exporting the (very compressing) H.264 as the codec, (which may be the reason the laptop is able to do is at this point.) The question is this: Is a 4K frame always the same, regardless of the codec?

December 12th, 2009, 01:21 PM	#7
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	FxPlug is one of two languages filter/transition plugins are written in for FCP. FxScript is the older language, but not compatible with Motion. FxFactory utilizes the processing power of your graphics card and Quartz. In fact, Stereo3D Toolbox is actually written as a Quartz Composition and then compiled into a FxPlug UI via FxFactory Pro. You can turn off graphics card VRAM processing in order to process 4K within FCP (launch FxFactory preferences and switch FxPlug rendering from video memory to main memory) but rendering will slow waaaaaay down. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Tim Dashwood