New 3D HD prototype Sony Blu-Ray camera, shown at Japan World Trade Expo at DVinfo.net

Radek Svoboda · June 28th, 2005, 07:17 AM

My friend just returned from expo. The camera is unbelievable. It includes special high speed moving CCD mechanism, allows to record 3D with single lens, picks sound from any area you mark on touchscreen LCD, will measure exposure, white balance on any point you touch on screen, has 1080p24 mode, 50 Mbps MPEG4 - level 10 or something like, to be released in 2008 in same price range as HDV Z1. There was also ultra high definition theater with very large screen, with 24 channel sound, may become available to theaters in about 5 years. That time first beginning ultra high definition broadcast is planned for Japan. Had car there that gets 150 miles per galon, made by Toyota. It was prototype, also personal helicopter with two perpellas, each turning oposite direction, above each other, to be used in low end film, TV productions.

Radek

Tommy James · June 28th, 2005, 07:27 PM

So in three years time when HDV becomes mainstream I'm going to have to get this 3-D HDV camera to blow everyone else out of the water ? Lots of robots were at the EXPO so I suppose someday I will have to buy one of those Androids. Hopefully 3-D HDV will come standard along with the ability to wash my dishes.

Wes Coughlin · June 28th, 2005, 09:48 PM

If its the 3d im thinking, their is no possible way to achieve 360 degree view, from all different angles, standing in one spot with one camera. I dont know, mabye you get to wear those special glasses! sounds retarded, and will never believe such a camera can ever exist.

Charles Papert · June 28th, 2005, 11:08 PM

Slow down there, Wes...

No-one said anything about 360 degrees.

Traditional 3d capture rigs involve two cameras mounted side by side (Cameron's system) or an optical trick of capturing two adjacent images via a single camera body--from Radek's description, it sounds like the actual optical block is oscillating side-to-side behind the lens, which is impressive!

Nearly all 3D requires the use of glasses. The cheapies are the classic red and blue, or oppositely polarized lenses; the latest have LCD layers that switch on and off, synchronized to the image.

By the way, we discourage the casual use of the term "retarded" around here.

J. Stephen McDonald · June 30th, 2005, 01:15 AM

If the CCD block in this camera actually moves physically from side-to-side with each frame, that would be much more complicated and potentially hard on the components, than my proposal: Just electronically shift the sampling zone of the CCDs from side-to-side, timed with the dual frame capture. The shifting of the sampling zone is the basis of electronic image stabilization. Why make it more complicated? Imagine the vibration all that rapid starting and stopping motion would cause if they moved the CCDs mechanically.

Jack Zhang · June 30th, 2005, 10:49 PM

Finally! Sony uses H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10) in a prototype HD camera!

Doug Boze · July 2nd, 2005, 11:18 PM

I understand the ocillating mechanism was inspired by a common apple-peeler. This is good news since I have one and a Pentax Stereo Adapter already, plus a pair of polarized sunglasses, so I should be well on my way to 3D video. One of the greatest difficulties in producing convincing 3D is depth of field control. I think I've found an "eyeball" method using a sharp stick...

Robert Knecht Schmidt · July 2nd, 2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Stephen McDonald

Just electronically shift the sampling zone of the CCDs from side-to-side, timed with the dual frame capture.

Can someone provide a link that explains how 3D is achieved with just one lens? Shifting the CCD block/sampling zone, mechanically, electronically, or otherwise, doesn't result anything other than a wider aspect ratio with the exact same perspective projection.

You don't get a sense of depth by closing one eye and swiveling the other eyeball left and right.

Radek Svoboda · July 3rd, 2005, 01:29 AM

Maybe move one element or group pf elements inside lens, or use something like optical stabilization, where element changes shape. I read someplice that new lens was developed that change shape depending on electrical charge applied and change is practically instanteneous. Who knows what they doing, if they work with Canon or Zeiss on it. Maybe CCD stays stationary and they vary CCD area, where they take sample from, in synch with lens element movement. Who knows. Maybe this little shift in lens and it's moving from one side to another maybe some digital processing calculates, determines how difference would look like if shift was larger.

This is interesting discussion on link below, talks about different way about achieving 3D images on screen without glasses. Maybe this camera needs even different screen that is getting developed. Sony was showing camera privately. Showed it to one known director they know. Maybe mechanism used is similar to mechanism in system where 24 cameras are used as discussed below only there is one camera, everything else is determined by digital processing with new Cell processor.
http://slashdot.org/articles/04/02/25/0846221.shtml

There is push for MPEG4 processing in HDTV. Will allow 1080p50-60 over same bandwidth. This could be used easily for 3D HD pictures. Technology is changes so fast, maybe it will soon possible have 3D HD. Disney already converting 100 theaters to 3D because 3D more profitable. As theaters change to digital, maybe most film productions change to 3D and with all 3D movies, maybe TV will change to 3D.

Radek

Seun Osewa · March 17th, 2007, 04:35 AM

I think they must have considered the various options before choosing this approach.

June 28th, 2005, 07:17 AM	#1
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	New 3D HD prototype Sony Blu-Ray camera, shown at Japan World Trade Expo My friend just returned from expo. The camera is unbelievable. It includes special high speed moving CCD mechanism, allows to record 3D with single lens, picks sound from any area you mark on touchscreen LCD, will measure exposure, white balance on any point you touch on screen, has 1080p24 mode, 50 Mbps MPEG4 - level 10 or something like, to be released in 2008 in same price range as HDV Z1. There was also ultra high definition theater with very large screen, with 24 channel sound, may become available to theaters in about 5 years. That time first beginning ultra high definition broadcast is planned for Japan. Had car there that gets 150 miles per galon, made by Toyota. It was prototype, also personal helicopter with two perpellas, each turning oposite direction, above each other, to be used in low end film, TV productions. Radek Last edited by Radek Svoboda; June 28th, 2005 at 08:53 AM.

June 28th, 2005, 09:48 PM	#3
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	If its the 3d im thinking, their is no possible way to achieve 360 degree view, from all different angles, standing in one spot with one camera. I dont know, mabye you get to wear those special glasses! sounds retarded, and will never believe such a camera can ever exist. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

June 28th, 2005, 11:08 PM	#4
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Slow down there, Wes... No-one said anything about 360 degrees. Traditional 3d capture rigs involve two cameras mounted side by side (Cameron's system) or an optical trick of capturing two adjacent images via a single camera body--from Radek's description, it sounds like the actual optical block is oscillating side-to-side behind the lens, which is impressive! Nearly all 3D requires the use of glasses. The cheapies are the classic red and blue, or oppositely polarized lenses; the latest have LCD layers that switch on and off, synchronized to the image. By the way, we discourage the casual use of the term "retarded" around here. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 30th, 2005, 01:15 AM	#5
J. Stephen McDonald Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 909	If the CCD block in this camera actually moves physically from side-to-side with each frame, that would be much more complicated and potentially hard on the components, than my proposal: Just electronically shift the sampling zone of the CCDs from side-to-side, timed with the dual frame capture. The shifting of the sampling zone is the basis of electronic image stabilization. Why make it more complicated? Imagine the vibration all that rapid starting and stopping motion would cause if they moved the CCDs mechanically. __________________ Steve McDonald https://onedrive.com/?cid=229807ce52dd4fe0 http://www.flickr.com/photos/22121562@N00/ http://www.vimeo.com/user458315/videos

June 28th, 2005, 07:27 PM	#2
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	So in three years time when HDV becomes mainstream I'm going to have to get this 3-D HDV camera to blow everyone else out of the water ? Lots of robots were at the EXPO so I suppose someday I will have to buy one of those Androids. Hopefully 3-D HDV will come standard along with the ability to wash my dishes.

June 30th, 2005, 10:49 PM	#6
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Finally! Sony uses H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10) in a prototype HD camera!

July 2nd, 2005, 11:18 PM	#7
Doug Boze Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Auburn, Washington Posts: 218	I understand the ocillating mechanism was inspired by a common apple-peeler. This is good news since I have one and a Pentax Stereo Adapter already, plus a pair of polarized sunglasses, so I should be well on my way to 3D video. One of the greatest difficulties in producing convincing 3D is depth of field control. I think I've found an "eyeball" method using a sharp stick...

July 3rd, 2005, 01:29 AM	#9
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Maybe move one element or group pf elements inside lens, or use something like optical stabilization, where element changes shape. I read someplice that new lens was developed that change shape depending on electrical charge applied and change is practically instanteneous. Who knows what they doing, if they work with Canon or Zeiss on it. Maybe CCD stays stationary and they vary CCD area, where they take sample from, in synch with lens element movement. Who knows. Maybe this little shift in lens and it's moving from one side to another maybe some digital processing calculates, determines how difference would look like if shift was larger. This is interesting discussion on link below, talks about different way about achieving 3D images on screen without glasses. Maybe this camera needs even different screen that is getting developed. Sony was showing camera privately. Showed it to one known director they know. Maybe mechanism used is similar to mechanism in system where 24 cameras are used as discussed below only there is one camera, everything else is determined by digital processing with new Cell processor. http://slashdot.org/articles/04/02/25/0846221.shtml There is push for MPEG4 processing in HDTV. Will allow 1080p50-60 over same bandwidth. This could be used easily for 3D HD pictures. Technology is changes so fast, maybe it will soon possible have 3D HD. Disney already converting 100 theaters to 3D because 3D more profitable. As theaters change to digital, maybe most film productions change to 3D and with all 3D movies, maybe TV will change to 3D. Radek

March 17th, 2007, 04:35 AM	#10
Seun Osewa Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: West Africa Posts: 255	I think they must have considered the various options before choosing this approach.