Cineform "Neo3D" for Final Cut Pro at DVinfo.net

Tim Dashwood · April 11th, 2009, 05:23 AM

David Knaggs · April 11th, 2009, 06:28 AM

Thanks, Tim.

This looks like a really big deal. Will you get the chance to stop by their booth while you're at NAB? (Or are you just making a lightning visit to the FCPUG Supermeet for the JVC presentation and back out again?)

If you do get the chance to stop by, it would be great to know the minimum specs for the computer (I already noted that a Kona card is needed), the price and any info about where these "inexpensive 3D TVs" can be gotten from.

And do they have plans for a future Compressor plug-in which can export from the FCP timeline and encode it into a 3D Digital Cinema Package (DCP) ready for distribution?

Thanks.

Tim Dashwood · April 11th, 2009, 06:49 AM

The most inexpensive 3DTV would be any CRT paired with a IR transmitter and active shutter glasses. This is what I use while editing 3D but unfortunately it flickers at 60HZ and it is only NTSC. I use a simple interlaced matte (that I created in Photoshop) and the Travel Matte - Luma mode to interlace the two video layers together while editing in FCP.

There are a bunch of 3D monitors available for gamers, designers and desktop editing but the next step up is probably Samsung's PN42A450 or PN50A450 Plasma TV. I've seen the 42" version retail for as low as $699 Canadian! It cycles at 120Hz and also uses an IR transmitter with active shutter glasses. It is HD and uses the "checkerboard" pattern instead of upper/lower interlaced.
The only issue here (I tested it with by Macbook at the store) is that the output resolution has to be 1024 x 768 @ 60Hz. I couldn't get my shutter glasses to sync with it but I suspect they can't cycle higher than 60Hz anyway. I'm going to order the glasses meant for this display and then go back to try again.
It appears from the press release that Neo3D supports side by side, over/under and interlaced modes (as well as anaglyph) but not the checkerboard format. Too bad. There are also a bunch of DLP 3DTVs use the checkerboard format.

Here's a fairly up-to-date list of 3D-Ready TVs http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html

And there will be many more displays revealed at NAB09! I've saw a couple at a CES preview that blew my mind.

Nick Hiltgen · April 13th, 2009, 04:33 AM

Speaking of monitoring, if you had the space, and the budget, would anyone suggest editing on a polarized setup. I think the most prohibitive thing now is the cost of a silver screen, and I'm not even sure how prohibitive that is. (I haven't priced them yet). I anticipate more and more 3d type work coming my way and am trying to figure out what my post setup will be.

Martin Munthe · April 22nd, 2009, 04:10 AM

The press release and all of Cineforms links to the Neo3D is down. Does anyone know if this will support something other than FCP? The Apple platform is so limited in options when working with 3D compared to windows where stereoscopic hardware and software tools have been on the market for many years. That's all virgin territory on OSX still.

Alister Chapman · April 22nd, 2009, 11:28 AM

Cool way of creating 3D interlace Tim. Had not thought of doing that. I wonder if it could be made to work with my Zalman using full screen preview? Have to play when I get home.

Martin Munthe · April 22nd, 2009, 04:21 PM

Avid Media Composer and Vegas can do interlaced/polarized on the Zalman out of the box. Premiere Pro and FCP can't.

Tim Dashwood · May 1st, 2009, 07:10 PM

You can now download the Neo3D trial from the Cineform site.

Here's technote on how it works.
Cineform Tech Blog Blog Archive First Light and First Light 3D Workflow Tutorial (Mac)

Clyde DeSouza · June 10th, 2009, 07:09 AM

Thanks for the link Tim on (my bloody valentine)
did they really have those differenes between left / right views in the shoot? or were they there were illustrative purposes only?

I've been killing myself trying to get prosumer gear to be "perfect" so its heartening to know that even pro gear has these kinds of discrepencies...
liek left right brightness issues (mirror rig or not), vertical misalign and god forbid... rotational errors and even frame sync issues after using genlock?

anyhow... to someone who has asked earlier in this thread... instead of using silver screens..
heres a few tips

1) you can use a paint from Goo Systems called screen goo.. search for their silver paint for 3d. This way you can get someone whos skillful, to paint a wall or plywood to whatever size u like

2) You can also use a good backprojection normal white screen... if you have the space to put your projectors to do back projection. This way you can use passive polarized solution without the need for a silver screen

Regards
Clyde

Ron Labbe · June 15th, 2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde DeSouza

2) You can also use a good backprojection normal white screen... if you have the space to put your projectors to do back projection. This way you can use passive polarized solution without the need for a silver screen

Regards
Clyde

What? First, rear projection screens are not white. Second, many if not most depolarize.

ron labbe
studio 3D

Tim Dashwood · June 15th, 2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Labbe

What? First, rear projection screens are not white. Second, many if not most depolarize.

Dalite sells rear projection screens designed for 3D polarized light. I think they actually have a 3X gain too.
I'm not sure about the other manufacturers, but I'm considering the Dalite in a motorized housing for our studio.

Clyde DeSouza · June 15th, 2009, 11:09 AM

Hi Ron,
Yes I stand corrected. Rear Projections screens are "usually" not White, more Gray.
But yes (some) can retain polarization.

This I have seen myself.

Regards,

P.s I'm more interested in the review of the scenes from My bloody Valentine.
were there really all those issues present as shown in the link? or are they being used for illustrative purposes only? (to show the capablilty of NEOscene 3d?)

Regards
Clyde

Ron Labbe · June 15th, 2009, 11:27 AM

There are screens that are made that don't depolarize... Stewart, Da-Lite and Harkness make them, among others. The point is that the statement "You can also use a good backprojection normal white screen..." is not quite true!

ron labbe
studio 3D

April 11th, 2009, 05:23 AM	#1
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Cineform "Neo3D" for Final Cut Pro CineForm Neo3D Press Release __________________ Tim Dashwood

April 11th, 2009, 06:49 AM	#3
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The most inexpensive 3DTV would be any CRT paired with a IR transmitter and active shutter glasses. This is what I use while editing 3D but unfortunately it flickers at 60HZ and it is only NTSC. I use a simple interlaced matte (that I created in Photoshop) and the Travel Matte - Luma mode to interlace the two video layers together while editing in FCP. There are a bunch of 3D monitors available for gamers, designers and desktop editing but the next step up is probably Samsung's PN42A450 or PN50A450 Plasma TV. I've seen the 42" version retail for as low as $699 Canadian! It cycles at 120Hz and also uses an IR transmitter with active shutter glasses. It is HD and uses the "checkerboard" pattern instead of upper/lower interlaced. The only issue here (I tested it with by Macbook at the store) is that the output resolution has to be 1024 x 768 @ 60Hz. I couldn't get my shutter glasses to sync with it but I suspect they can't cycle higher than 60Hz anyway. I'm going to order the glasses meant for this display and then go back to try again. It appears from the press release that Neo3D supports side by side, over/under and interlaced modes (as well as anaglyph) but not the checkerboard format. Too bad. There are also a bunch of DLP 3DTVs use the checkerboard format. Here's a fairly up-to-date list of 3D-Ready TVs http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html And there will be many more displays revealed at NAB09! I've saw a couple at a CES preview that blew my mind. __________________ Tim Dashwood

April 13th, 2009, 04:33 AM	#4
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Speaking of monitoring, if you had the space, and the budget, would anyone suggest editing on a polarized setup. I think the most prohibitive thing now is the cost of a silver screen, and I'm not even sure how prohibitive that is. (I haven't priced them yet). I anticipate more and more 3d type work coming my way and am trying to figure out what my post setup will be. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

April 22nd, 2009, 04:10 AM	#5
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	The press release and all of Cineforms links to the Neo3D is down. Does anyone know if this will support something other than FCP? The Apple platform is so limited in options when working with 3D compared to windows where stereoscopic hardware and software tools have been on the market for many years. That's all virgin territory on OSX still. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

April 22nd, 2009, 11:28 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Cool way of creating 3D interlace Tim. Had not thought of doing that. I wonder if it could be made to work with my Zalman using full screen preview? Have to play when I get home. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

April 11th, 2009, 06:28 AM	#2
David Knaggs Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 826	Thanks, Tim. This looks like a really big deal. Will you get the chance to stop by their booth while you're at NAB? (Or are you just making a lightning visit to the FCPUG Supermeet for the JVC presentation and back out again?) If you do get the chance to stop by, it would be great to know the minimum specs for the computer (I already noted that a Kona card is needed), the price and any info about where these "inexpensive 3D TVs" can be gotten from. And do they have plans for a future Compressor plug-in which can export from the FCP timeline and encode it into a 3D Digital Cinema Package (DCP) ready for distribution? Thanks.

April 22nd, 2009, 04:21 PM	#7
Martin Munthe Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 331	Avid Media Composer and Vegas can do interlaced/polarized on the Zalman out of the box. Premiere Pro and FCP can't. __________________ Martin Munthe VFX Supervisor/DP/Director

May 1st, 2009, 07:10 PM	#8
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Neo3D Trial Download now Available You can now download the Neo3D trial from the Cineform site. Here's technote on how it works. Cineform Tech Blog Blog Archive First Light and First Light 3D Workflow Tutorial (Mac) __________________ Tim Dashwood

June 10th, 2009, 07:09 AM	#9
Clyde DeSouza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 29	Thanks for the link Tim on (my bloody valentine) did they really have those differenes between left / right views in the shoot? or were they there were illustrative purposes only? I've been killing myself trying to get prosumer gear to be "perfect" so its heartening to know that even pro gear has these kinds of discrepencies... liek left right brightness issues (mirror rig or not), vertical misalign and god forbid... rotational errors and even frame sync issues after using genlock? anyhow... to someone who has asked earlier in this thread... instead of using silver screens.. heres a few tips 1) you can use a paint from Goo Systems called screen goo.. search for their silver paint for 3d. This way you can get someone whos skillful, to paint a wall or plywood to whatever size u like 2) You can also use a good backprojection normal white screen... if you have the space to put your projectors to do back projection. This way you can use passive polarized solution without the need for a silver screen Regards Clyde Last edited by Clyde DeSouza; June 10th, 2009 at 07:10 AM. Reason: had to ask.. when does Neo3D come for PC and CS4

June 15th, 2009, 11:09 AM	#12
Clyde DeSouza Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Dubai Posts: 29	Hi Ron, Yes I stand corrected. Rear Projections screens are "usually" not White, more Gray. But yes (some) can retain polarization. This I have seen myself. Regards, P.s I'm more interested in the review of the scenes from My bloody Valentine. were there really all those issues present as shown in the link? or are they being used for illustrative purposes only? (to show the capablilty of NEOscene 3d?) Regards Clyde Last edited by Clyde DeSouza; June 15th, 2009 at 11:13 AM. Reason: added "some" - probably the ones I have seen that were used for polarized displays.

June 15th, 2009, 11:27 AM	#13
Ron Labbe Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Maynard MA Posts: 40	There are screens that are made that don't depolarize... Stewart, Da-Lite and Harkness make them, among others. The point is that the statement "You can also use a good backprojection normal white screen..." is not quite true! ron labbe studio 3D