Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it at DVinfo.net

Marcello Mazzilli · August 3rd, 2016, 02:44 AM

Hi,
I am just starting to approach 360 videos, 3D glasses, Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality... and there is one thing I don't get properly.

I bought some Google Cardboard compatibile glasses.
They work great if I view VR APPS AND GAMES (3d created world where you can move into). The app displays a screen divided in two (left and right) at half resolution. The glasses make it so left eye sees only what left eye is supposed to see and the same for the right eye. Also, more important, the glasses let's the eye focus on such a close distance. Fine

I also can watch 3D 360° VIDEOS fine. The movie goes on and I can rotate my head where I want to discover different things. Great

And obviously I can watch standard 3D MOVIES (allthough, for this, I prefer my 3D TV SET)

Problems arise when I want to watch 2D content !
The glasses will not let me do it. My eyes will give me a double image and I will get a headache. The only way is if I close one eye.

But.. I DON'T UNDERSTAND !!!

So what about all those cameras they sell to make 360 videos? Of course there are 3D cameras but is full of many 2D cameras (like this one https://www.amazon.com/Ricoh-Theta-D...ords=video+360) . How do people watch all these 2D (not 3D) 360° videos in Youtube?

Then I try it with a Augmented Reality app. The app does NOT split the screen in two. No need. Inside your iPhone you see the exterior world plus a 3D object placed inside it. There is no need for 2-eyes-3D because the 3D effect is there, in front of you. Object is placed in the real world 3D axis and if you move the camera (the iPhone's) the impression of a 3D object is confirmed. You can even go round the object. That's great..... But is 2D (obviously! Is my iPhone's screen).... So if I put the phone in my glasses.. again.. my eyes go mad.

These glasses are made for 3D !
They want a screen that is split in two with two (slightly) different images for each eye.

So.. WHAT DO I BUY to view Augmented reality apps ?
WHAT DO I BUY to view 2D 360° Videos that many consumer cameras do?

Finally.. I speak with a friend and he tells me that he's got Oculus. He made a (simple) 360 photo panorama in a traditional way. gave it to Oculus and he got the screen split in TWO !!!
So... How did Oculus create the TWO (left + right) images from a standard 360 foto panorama ???

I don't understand here... seems I'm missing some bit of info.

On the market there are many 2D 360° VIDEO cameras but also some 3D ones
Thera re expensive Hollywood style 360° VIDEO cameras that are mono lens (maybe 12 lenses on a ball but never paired for 3D vision). Would someone buy a 60.000$ ball camera if it didn't make 3D?
Augmented Reality needs no 3D because 3D will half the resolution and introduce alignment problems etc.. for nothing.. the 3D illusion is there, moving around with the gyroscope.

So... Where am I wrong?
What glasses let me focus short distance on my phone but don't require the screen split in two?

Thanks for the help.
Marcello

Dave Baker · August 3rd, 2016, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Problems arise when I want to watch 2D content !

Unless I misunderstand what you're asking, surely you just take the 3D glasses off?

Dave

Marcello Mazzilli · August 3rd, 2016, 07:37 AM

Great and funny answer!
But.. BUZZ... wrong!

I need to kep the immersive power of a 360° video (even if not 3D) or I want to live full Augmented Reality (as now I see both, the outside world or the world in the phone.. just want the second).

Mark Rosenzweig · August 3rd, 2016, 09:44 AM

I make 2D 360 videos and stills. I view them using the Samsung VR headset with my Samsung S7 phone. I do not have to close one eye, I do not get a headache, and I get the immersive experience, because I can look around. It is a nice experience, and different from 3D.

I have been certified as a normal person (physically) with normal vision. So, if you are having the troubles you describe you are either using the wrong viewing equipment (which you have inadequately described in your semi-rant) or you need medical attention. I think it's your viewer.

Marcello Mazzilli · August 3rd, 2016, 10:10 AM

This is the viewer

https://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Space...op+vr+shinecom

I seem to understand something....
2d videos, if you select the Gogles icon, split in 3D with two different eyviews.
But how is this possible if the video was shot with standard 2D 360° cameras ?

Am I correct?
So 2D videos can be seen with 3D glasses but the TWO EYES SPLIT SCREEN is not a real 3D ?

So basically the difference is that 3D 360° cameras will give me the 3D effect and 2D cameras no but they both have to be viewed with a split screen left/right? Correct?

And what about my AR apps? They are probably ONLY MADE FOR use in the hand and not in the glasses? As if they where made for the glasses they would have to split in two (slightly different) videos from the LIVE FEED of the camera?

Mark Rosenzweig · August 3rd, 2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello Mazzilli

This is the viewer

https://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Space...op+vr+shinecom

I seem to understand something....
2d videos, if you select the Gogles icon, split in 3D with two different eyviews.
But how is this possible if the video was shot with standard 2D 360° cameras ?

Am I correct?
So 2D videos can be seen with 3D glasses but the TWO EYES SPLIT SCREEN is not a real 3D ?

So basically the difference is that 3D 360° cameras will give me the 3D effect and 2D cameras no but they both have to be viewed with a split screen left/right? Correct?

And what about my AR apps? They are probably ONLY MADE FOR use in the hand and not in the glasses? As if they where made for the glasses they would have to split in two (slightly different) videos from the LIVE FEED of the camera?

If you would stop using "3D" as an adjective, you would be better understood. First, you are not using 3D glasses when you use a VR headset and the screen in not split in 3D. Just because there are two lenses, does not make them 3D glasses. Second, while the split is not "3D", the split sides do not have exactly the same slice of the 360 video - one sees more on the left and less on the right, the other more on the right and less on the left, so you get a 3D-like effect - remember there is the full 360 panorama but you are only seeing one segment (or two segments) of it in the viewer.

All of this does not explain your claim of getting a headache or having to close one eye. Headaches do ensue when the 360 video has camera movement, but that is another issue.

Marcello Mazzilli · August 3rd, 2016, 10:44 AM

As I said in my last msg ..I think I am understanding.

Let's call the glasses DOUBLE VISION GLASSES
These glasses, as google cardboard, get your eyes to focus very near (10cm or so, where the phone is) but in doing so to give a correct picture to the mind STRICTLY REQUIRE that the screen I am watching has to show a DOUBLE IMAGE (left and right, slightly different). Correct?

So.. to make it simple... Let's say I jut want to switch on the camera of my phone and walk around looking through it this WILL NOT WORK. I can't do this with a normal camera app on the phone. I ill need an app that gets the live feed from the camera, splits it in two slightly different images and creates on the fly TWO SEPARATE IMAGES for my two eyes. Correct?

So, what I was doing wrong until now was...

1) When viewing 2D 360° videos I was not pushing the glasses icon (bottom right on Youtube) because I was just etting full screen. By doing this the software creates TWO different images for my two eyes. This IS NOT 3D.. is just images because, the phone is so near to the eyes that even if not 3D I need to separate images to get them to my brain correctly.

2) The augmented reality apps I am using (for example ARKIDS (free) ARE NOT made for glasses. A proper Augmented Reality app, meant to be used with glasses, should be able to (a) Split the live feed from the amera in TWO separate videos and relocate properly the virtual object/s inserted in the scene in the TWO screens.

Correct?

Roger Gunkel · August 3rd, 2016, 05:32 PM

3d images are taken with two lenses taking two independent images, one representing the view seen with the left eye and the other with the right. This means that near objects will be more offset in one image than the other and less so for further objects, which is how we perceive depth with our eyes. The images will then need to be viewed independently with each eye to maintain that disparity to give the impression of depth from two flat images. With a stereo viewer or glasses, each image is viewed independently.

With 360 degree 2d images, the scene is simple a 360 panorama in 2d, however our right eye in real life sees more of the subject to the right and our left eye sees more to the left. Of course in life we are also seeing a 3D scene, so the 2D 360 panorama image is a flat representation of a 3D scene. To get the best from the 360 panorama, the viewer should show images that are offset to show slightly more of the left and right side of the image to the corresponding eye. You could of course have an identical image for both eyes as in standard 2d headsets, but that would be a little less representative of your true field of vision as you move your head in a 360 degree movement.

Roger

Douglas Call · December 24th, 2016, 12:40 AM

Here is a very recent demo of the first set of Augmented Reality glasses to use two HD silicon OLED screens for viewing.

It looks to me like you're actually able to wear the glasses and see most things normally, but in some instances you may see certain elements within your field of view become enhanced in some way and in some cases it might appear to be surrounded by a 3D like wrapper.

I'm looking at using these type glasses to develop a visual way to correlate context sensitive databases(databases that store information about shops, services, history and the arts based on GPS coordinates) into your reality by placing enhanced sets of information into your field of view based on where you are and where your looking. So as you look at specific features, structures or other identifiable aspects of your surroundings it would trigger an enhanced layer of information into your field of view. It might show you information about upcoming performances, events or other happenings that will be occurring very shortly right in the area your traveling through. Kind of like a pair of glasses that gives you a preview of what you may be seeing in reality within a short period of time in the area your walking or driving through.
To make it more useful to each individual it be good if your could select the things that are of interest to you so only those types of enhanced view appear as your walking about. That way you can stay more focused on what your trying to find or do.

I'm not thinking of using the Augment Reality glasses for gaming or 3D purposed specifically, but more for business and education. You might even be able to tap in to historical aspects of an area your walking through. If your in a famous part of Civil War city or maybe a World Heritage site then enhanced views may pop into your field of view giving you details about historical events, facts and historical figures.

August 3rd, 2016, 02:44 AM	#1
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it Hi, I am just starting to approach 360 videos, 3D glasses, Virtual Reality and Augmented Reality... and there is one thing I don't get properly. I bought some Google Cardboard compatibile glasses. They work great if I view VR APPS AND GAMES (3d created world where you can move into). The app displays a screen divided in two (left and right) at half resolution. The glasses make it so left eye sees only what left eye is supposed to see and the same for the right eye. Also, more important, the glasses let's the eye focus on such a close distance. Fine I also can watch 3D 360° VIDEOS fine. The movie goes on and I can rotate my head where I want to discover different things. Great And obviously I can watch standard 3D MOVIES (allthough, for this, I prefer my 3D TV SET) Problems arise when I want to watch 2D content ! The glasses will not let me do it. My eyes will give me a double image and I will get a headache. The only way is if I close one eye. But.. I DON'T UNDERSTAND !!! So what about all those cameras they sell to make 360 videos? Of course there are 3D cameras but is full of many 2D cameras (like this one https://www.amazon.com/Ricoh-Theta-D...ords=video+360) . How do people watch all these 2D (not 3D) 360° videos in Youtube? Then I try it with a Augmented Reality app. The app does NOT split the screen in two. No need. Inside your iPhone you see the exterior world plus a 3D object placed inside it. There is no need for 2-eyes-3D because the 3D effect is there, in front of you. Object is placed in the real world 3D axis and if you move the camera (the iPhone's) the impression of a 3D object is confirmed. You can even go round the object. That's great..... But is 2D (obviously! Is my iPhone's screen).... So if I put the phone in my glasses.. again.. my eyes go mad. These glasses are made for 3D ! They want a screen that is split in two with two (slightly) different images for each eye. So.. WHAT DO I BUY to view Augmented reality apps ? WHAT DO I BUY to view 2D 360° Videos that many consumer cameras do? Finally.. I speak with a friend and he tells me that he's got Oculus. He made a (simple) 360 photo panorama in a traditional way. gave it to Oculus and he got the screen split in TWO !!! So... How did Oculus create the TWO (left + right) images from a standard 360 foto panorama ??? I don't understand here... seems I'm missing some bit of info. On the market there are many 2D 360° VIDEO cameras but also some 3D ones Thera re expensive Hollywood style 360° VIDEO cameras that are mono lens (maybe 12 lenses on a ball but never paired for 3D vision). Would someone buy a 60.000$ ball camera if it didn't make 3D? Augmented Reality needs no 3D because 3D will half the resolution and introduce alignment problems etc.. for nothing.. the 3D illusion is there, moving around with the gyroscope. So... Where am I wrong? What glasses let me focus short distance on my phone but don't require the screen split in two? Thanks for the help. Marcello

August 3rd, 2016, 07:37 AM	#3
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it Great and funny answer! But.. BUZZ... wrong! I need to kep the immersive power of a 360° video (even if not 3D) or I want to live full Augmented Reality (as now I see both, the outside world or the world in the phone.. just want the second).

August 3rd, 2016, 09:44 AM	#4
Mark Rosenzweig Trustee Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Haven, CT Posts: 1,004	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it I make 2D 360 videos and stills. I view them using the Samsung VR headset with my Samsung S7 phone. I do not have to close one eye, I do not get a headache, and I get the immersive experience, because I can look around. It is a nice experience, and different from 3D. I have been certified as a normal person (physically) with normal vision. So, if you are having the troubles you describe you are either using the wrong viewing equipment (which you have inadequately described in your semi-rant) or you need medical attention. I think it's your viewer.

August 3rd, 2016, 10:10 AM	#5
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it This is the viewer https://www.amazon.com/Virtual-Space...op+vr+shinecom I seem to understand something.... 2d videos, if you select the Gogles icon, split in 3D with two different eyviews. But how is this possible if the video was shot with standard 2D 360° cameras ? Am I correct? So 2D videos can be seen with 3D glasses but the TWO EYES SPLIT SCREEN is not a real 3D ? So basically the difference is that 3D 360° cameras will give me the 3D effect and 2D cameras no but they both have to be viewed with a split screen left/right? Correct? And what about my AR apps? They are probably ONLY MADE FOR use in the hand and not in the glasses? As if they where made for the glasses they would have to split in two (slightly different) videos from the LIVE FEED of the camera?

August 3rd, 2016, 10:44 AM	#7
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it As I said in my last msg ..I think I am understanding. Let's call the glasses DOUBLE VISION GLASSES These glasses, as google cardboard, get your eyes to focus very near (10cm or so, where the phone is) but in doing so to give a correct picture to the mind STRICTLY REQUIRE that the screen I am watching has to show a DOUBLE IMAGE (left and right, slightly different). Correct? So.. to make it simple... Let's say I jut want to switch on the camera of my phone and walk around looking through it this WILL NOT WORK. I can't do this with a normal camera app on the phone. I ill need an app that gets the live feed from the camera, splits it in two slightly different images and creates on the fly TWO SEPARATE IMAGES for my two eyes. Correct? So, what I was doing wrong until now was... 1) When viewing 2D 360° videos I was not pushing the glasses icon (bottom right on Youtube) because I was just etting full screen. By doing this the software creates TWO different images for my two eyes. This IS NOT 3D.. is just images because, the phone is so near to the eyes that even if not 3D I need to separate images to get them to my brain correctly. 2) The augmented reality apps I am using (for example ARKIDS (free) ARE NOT made for glasses. A proper Augmented Reality app, meant to be used with glasses, should be able to (a) Split the live feed from the amera in TWO separate videos and relocate properly the virtual object/s inserted in the scene in the TWO screens. Correct?

August 3rd, 2016, 05:32 PM	#8
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it 3d images are taken with two lenses taking two independent images, one representing the view seen with the left eye and the other with the right. This means that near objects will be more offset in one image than the other and less so for further objects, which is how we perceive depth with our eyes. The images will then need to be viewed independently with each eye to maintain that disparity to give the impression of depth from two flat images. With a stereo viewer or glasses, each image is viewed independently. With 360 degree 2d images, the scene is simple a 360 panorama in 2d, however our right eye in real life sees more of the subject to the right and our left eye sees more to the left. Of course in life we are also seeing a 3D scene, so the 2D 360 panorama image is a flat representation of a 3D scene. To get the best from the 360 panorama, the viewer should show images that are offset to show slightly more of the left and right side of the image to the corresponding eye. You could of course have an identical image for both eyes as in standard 2d headsets, but that would be a little less representative of your true field of vision as you move your head in a 360 degree movement. Roger

December 24th, 2016, 12:40 AM	#9
Douglas Call Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hollywood, FL Posts: 302	Re: Need some hints on 3d, 360, VR, AR...Don't get it Here is a very recent demo of the first set of Augmented Reality glasses to use two HD silicon OLED screens for viewing. Epson Moverio BT-300: A New Way Of Seeing The World - YouTube It looks to me like you're actually able to wear the glasses and see most things normally, but in some instances you may see certain elements within your field of view become enhanced in some way and in some cases it might appear to be surrounded by a 3D like wrapper. I'm looking at using these type glasses to develop a visual way to correlate context sensitive databases(databases that store information about shops, services, history and the arts based on GPS coordinates) into your reality by placing enhanced sets of information into your field of view based on where you are and where your looking. So as you look at specific features, structures or other identifiable aspects of your surroundings it would trigger an enhanced layer of information into your field of view. It might show you information about upcoming performances, events or other happenings that will be occurring very shortly right in the area your traveling through. Kind of like a pair of glasses that gives you a preview of what you may be seeing in reality within a short period of time in the area your walking or driving through. To make it more useful to each individual it be good if your could select the things that are of interest to you so only those types of enhanced view appear as your walking about. That way you can stay more focused on what your trying to find or do. I'm not thinking of using the Augment Reality glasses for gaming or 3D purposed specifically, but more for business and education. You might even be able to tap in to historical aspects of an area your walking through. If your in a famous part of Civil War city or maybe a World Heritage site then enhanced views may pop into your field of view giving you details about historical events, facts and historical figures.