2nd-unit.tv looking good!

Jonathan Nelson · June 25th, 2006, 06:56 PM

As a free service, I think what you have is great! No disappointment here. I would watch every episode and would love to see the dudes you hang out with everyday.

I only commented on the lack of technical details because you mentioned charging people to watch it which is fine, but for me to pay for that I would need to see more techie stuff. Just a suggestion and thanks for not taking it negatively.

I wish I could be apart of this project of yours. I would even do it for free!

Jonathan Ames · June 25th, 2006, 07:16 PM

OK, here's the deal. We typically shoot that show on Saturdays to allow for our company's paying production schedule and the cast and crew, some of whom give their off-time. We'll fly you out and put you to work on Camera 3 and you can see what the shoots are all about and meet some of the best people in TV. Or I can fly out to Kingman, pick you up in the Cessna and we can have a couple of hours flight back to Santa Monica to talk film.

Joel Aaron · June 25th, 2006, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

Or I can fly out to Kingman, pick you up in the Cessna and we can have a couple of hours flight back to Santa Monica to talk film.

You've got to be friggin' kidding me. I'll play along sometime if there's free flying involved. I could even bring my well heeled Micro35. Chandler airport's only 4 miles away. Just a thought.

Jonathan Nelson · June 25th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

OK, here's the deal. We typically shoot that show on Saturdays to allow for our company's paying production schedule and the cast and crew, some of whom give their off-time. We'll fly you out and put you to work on Camera 3 and you can see what the shoots are all about and meet some of the best people in TV. Or I can fly out to Kingman, pick you up in the Cessna and we can have a couple of hours flight back to Santa Monica to talk film.

Wow, your a super nice guy! That would be really cool experience! But I don't want to put you out. I could probably fly out of vegas but I have never been to Santa Monica before. Sounds like a dream trip to me.

What are the dates you looking at for this show?

Cole McDonald · June 25th, 2006, 07:49 PM

I thought it looked like tons of instructional videos I've seen...in fact it had higher production values than many. I tend to light more cinematically, but this is more what I expect for interviews. I had no problems with the shadows, I thought it threw some nice texture on a wall that would have otherwise just been white. Like punching it up with a gobo'd background light, but practically.

I'll be watching intently, the tiny vignettes you showed us into the actual explanation of lights when expounded on, should give me precisely what I've been looking for for years. A "Here's how it's done, no BS" type of lighting video. If this covers the other aspects of production as well, that'd be great. I'll be floating your site to a couple other forums I'm on as well.

I'd love to see a bit on how to save money DIYing kit pieces. I've done much of this myself and would gladly write a segment or two for you...I could potentially even shoot (SD-Canon XL1s) some how-to segments. Contact me via my e-mail link if you'd like to discuss any of this.

Keep it coming, first show rocked, reminded me of talking to any industry pro, you just don't want to let them stop talking, every anecdote is a gem.

Jonathan Ames · June 25th, 2006, 07:57 PM

As a few thousand people on the board will tell you, it's not putting me out. The last thing I want to sound like is, oh, heck, I don't know what the word is but my wife's and my whole life is all about using what we have to educate and help people in this industry. Paolo's life story is a great one and a great example of what 2nd Unit and our lives are all about. He's a house guest here all week because I want him to meet the people who can make a difference in his chosen profession so he's headed to a premiere at the ASC with us with us Tuesday night and working here throughout the week after hanging out with us in the Motorcoach at CineGear al weekend. So, as I said, I don't want to sound whatever but I do want people to understand that there are people out there who just give and don't ask anything in return. That's why your individual and collective opinions are so importnat to us here. We take what we're doing and giving very seriously. So let us set the schedule over the next two or three days and you can pick the set you'd like to work on. I can fly out and pick you up or fly you in commercially the same as I did for Warren and a few other members of the board who have worked with us here. Our house is large enough to host a few people so you'll stay here or in a hotel of your choice, your pick. I don't want you spending your own money. Ypu're donating your time to 2nd Unit and that's enough. Tell you what. Take the money you would use to fly out here and subscribe to the site for a couple of months !!! ;-)

Jonathan Nelson · June 25th, 2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames

As a few thousand people on the board will tell you, it's not putting me out. The last thing I want to sound like is, oh, heck, I don't know what the word is but my wife's and my whole life is all about using what we have to educate and help people in this industry. Paolo's life story is a great one and a great example of what 2nd Unit and our lives are all about. He's a house guest here all week because I want him to meet the people who can make a difference in his chosen profession so he's headed to a premiere at the ASC with us with us Tuesday night and working here throughout the week after hanging out with us in the Motorcoach at CineGear al weekend. So, as I said, I don't want to sound whatever but I do want people to understand that there are people out there who just give and don't ask anything in return. That's why your individual and collective opinions are so importnat to us here. We take what we're doing and giving very seriously. So let us set the schedule over the next two or three days and you can pick the set you'd like to work on. I can fly out and pick you up or fly you in commercially the same as I did for Warren and a few other members of the board who have worked with us here. Our house is large enough to host a few people so you'll stay here or in a hotel of your choice, your pick. I don't want you spending your own money. Ypu're donating your time to 2nd Unit and that's enough. Tell you what. Take the money you would use to fly out here and subscribe to the site for a couple of months !!! ;-)

Sounds good to me. I have no problems being your 2nd Unit bitch! :)

Must be nice owning a cessna...

Jonathan Ames · June 25th, 2006, 09:10 PM

Now now. No one referes to anyone as that. If we did, we'd all be that to each and every guest we have on set. I mean, can you image my position next to, say, Rodney Charters. What he accompllished or rather is accomplishing on "Molly" right now is incredible through his use of light, diffusion and imaging. Or Izzy Mankofsky who DP'd "Somewhere in Time" who I talked to yesterday afternoon at CineGear with George. There was a scene toward the end of that movie that was all his making. He's focused on Christopher Reeve as he comes out of the hotel and sits on a bench. He swings the camera 180 as he follows Reeve and split dioptics the scene where Christopher is in the foreground and 100 yards away, behind and well-below Reeve, Jane Seymoure appears from behind a treeline onto a greass field. The hotel is white, Reeve is in brown, Seymoure's in pure white and the grass and trees are a brilliant emerald and kelly green. Both in focus at the same time. With experience like that, I don't know of many people in this industry who aren't subserviant to that kind of talent.

Anyway, I'll e-mail you with the days that are available for camera and the names of the guests. You can choose which day and which guest you want to work with and we're happy to have you. And thank you for volunteering your time. You'll be working with some other great people from the board.

And as to the Cessna, I use it like most people use a car so it's just another tool.

K. Forman · June 25th, 2006, 09:13 PM

Somewhere in time is a great flick.

K. Forman · June 25th, 2006, 09:15 PM

And I'm still holding out for company benefits ;)

Jonathan Ames · June 26th, 2006, 08:26 AM

Well, keep making those recommendations than make the site better so when we start charging a small access fee, we'll start generating some income, bring you in as a Supervising Producer, pay you a salary and get you those benefits. But you'll have to come out and actually work with us soon. I'll have the dates and guests nailed down this week and get them over to you.

K. Forman · June 26th, 2006, 08:45 AM

Send the Cessna. However, I will be unavailable next week, I'll be at Disney ;)

John Kang · June 26th, 2006, 10:00 AM

Hey Keith,

Disney? Heh, looks like you don't really need those company benifits. ;)

Jonathan, as another member in the cheaper by the dozen category, all I can say is, have you thought about other ways of distribution? After all, you will be competing with the subscribers money allocations. There's only so much money a guy can spend. DVD's, games, new camcorder, monthly cable/dish bills, etc...

What you are competing with, it's a hard take. Most users on DVinfo might sign up, but would that be enough to keep your site running?

What's your pay structure going to be like? Free trial date for visitors? I'm of the type that get turned off from sites such as these. I don't like the auto payment deduction after the free trials bit.

I say, you might want to think about offering your services for free. That is, content you produce for the web.

A partnership with Brightcove or using Brightcoves structure would be interesting and something you should look into. They offer the bandwidth and profit sharing for your content, or you pay them a certain amount and get all the revenues made from your shows.

You can offer DVD's for sale of the show to make extra money. Copy streaming content over DVD? I would purchase a DVD (if I needed it), after watching it on the web. Think-transcripts and shows sold on networks and PBS.

Just a thought.

K. Forman · June 26th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kang

Hey Keith,

Disney? Heh, looks like you don't really need those company benifits. ;)

Right now, I really, really, need a vacation. The past two years has put a new low on the "Really sucks" scale. Really really!

Jonathan Ames · June 26th, 2006, 11:45 PM

By now you know that I'm a reasonably fun-loving guy but I 'd seriously like you all to think about some things when it comes to 2nd Unit. Alot of people are putting alot of time and money into this venture to bring you things quite frankly you'd be hard-pressed to see or hear anywhere else. We know that there's competition out there for limited dollars but from as business perspective, there are a number of assets you can get from 2nd Unit that you can't get anywhere else.

First is the fact that we're incorporating a number of the subscribers' suggestions as we continue to refine the process. Where else can the viewer write the script, ask for an interview and information on issues that affect them and get them back in video format. Simply put, would you rather buy a book that tells you what to do and augments those words with still pictures or have the guy who invented the solution on tape explaining the theory behind the thing and visually showing you how to employ it?

Next there's the fact that magazines that sell for $7 to $12 a month are comprised of 75% ads with the rest a grab-bag of info, most of which is slanted towards the advertisers' view points. 2nd Unit is pure filmmaker info that the viewer wants to see and hear about. And for $5 - $10 a month, virtually the same amount of money, 2nd Unit subscribers get 4 new issues within that same month quadrupuling your investment dollar.

Next, 2nd Unit brings professionals to the viewer eager to provide the same information that's made them king of the hill to you that can send 2nd Unit subscribers right back to their cameras to better their own productions. Want to see how Michael Mann got a particular shot? It's on 2nd Unit. Want to see how DP star and Sony poster boy Jody Eldridge who lasted so long on JAG and made the jump to NCIS lights his scenes for the 2nd most popular series on TV today? It's on 2nd Unit. Want to hear and see Armageddon's Mauro Fiore, 24's Rodney Charters, Dukes of Hazzard's Brian Crane, Star Wars' David Tatersol and Pirates of the Caribbean's Raphael Sanchez talk about light and camera? They're exclusively on 2nd Unit.

Need to stream the shows or download them later. You can do it on 2nd Unit.

Want discounts on equipment all filmmakers use? You'll get it by being a 2nd Unit subscriber.

Want to go on-set with televisions's hottest series? 2nd Unit's cameras take you there.

Want to know what filters do what? 2nd Unit will tell you. And we're doing a complete series on each of the Tiffin filters, how they should be used and when and their effects....all on podcasts that are immediately available to the members and all that show the before and the after videos...not still images out of a catalogue.

And finally, want podcasts you can download and take with you anywhere? They're only available through 2nd Unit.

In short, 2nd Unit gives you access to people and places you'd never get access to by yourself and we do it all for 1/4 the cost of a monthly, ad-filled magaine.

In short, 2nd Unit brings Above- and Below the Line people to Above and Below the Line people all to the benefit of its subscribers and independent filmmakers through its guests' insight, experience and knowledge. That's something you'll simply never get without 2nd Unit. Honest, straight-forward, in your face discussions with today's top DPs, cinematographers, directors, producers, gaffers, manufacturers, etc gives the independent filmmaker invaluable information working to improve his or her craft.

So I guess the bottom line is will people pay $5 or $10 a month to get access to people and information they'd otherwise be hard-pressed to get? We hope so becasue, again, the insight of the guests appearing on the site is generally unavailable except where the viewer is fortunate enough to be enrolled in USC School of Film or another prestigious institution with tuitions topping the $40,000 a year mark or is alrady working on sets.
2nd Unit is a true non-profit organization whose mission it is to bring reliable information and opinion to the filmmaking community with all of the profits derived there from reinvested in the operation and growth of the site.

Being video-based, the site is exceedingly bandwidth-intensive and thus costly to maintain. Being video-based, the content is subject to costly, labor-intensive post-production work to assure a quality show each and every week. Being video-based, there is an entertainment value to the site to anyone who might happen by. 2nd Unit is intended for the benefit and sole and exclusive use of the independent filmmaking community and by charging a nominal fee, we assure that the casual passerby does not use up valuable bandwidth thus slowing the data rate of the episodes web cast to the independent filmmaking community for whose benefit 2nd Unit was created.

And finally, why the small fee? Becasue we have talent to pay, talent who is working for 2nd Unit as a way to gain valuable experience in the entertainment industry's field of their choice. 2nd Unit is dedicated to paying them a decent wage that provides them with the ability not only to provide for their own and their family's needs but to acquire advanced equipment as their level of experience, knowledge and need advances.

I sincerely hope that all of this gives everyone food for thought. Again, we're not in this for the profit. We're in it to help the independent filmmaker be a better filmmaker and I've already put almost $150k where my mouth is. We'll see where it leads.

June 25th, 2006, 07:49 PM	#50
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	I thought it looked like tons of instructional videos I've seen...in fact it had higher production values than many. I tend to light more cinematically, but this is more what I expect for interviews. I had no problems with the shadows, I thought it threw some nice texture on a wall that would have otherwise just been white. Like punching it up with a gobo'd background light, but practically. I'll be watching intently, the tiny vignettes you showed us into the actual explanation of lights when expounded on, should give me precisely what I've been looking for for years. A "Here's how it's done, no BS" type of lighting video. If this covers the other aspects of production as well, that'd be great. I'll be floating your site to a couple other forums I'm on as well. I'd love to see a bit on how to save money DIYing kit pieces. I've done much of this myself and would gladly write a segment or two for you...I could potentially even shoot (SD-Canon XL1s) some how-to segments. Contact me via my e-mail link if you'd like to discuss any of this. Keep it coming, first show rocked, reminded me of talking to any industry pro, you just don't want to let them stop talking, every anecdote is a gem. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

June 25th, 2006, 09:13 PM	#54
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Somewhere in time is a great flick. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

June 25th, 2006, 09:15 PM	#55
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	And I'm still holding out for company benefits ;) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

June 26th, 2006, 08:45 AM	#57
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Send the Cessna. However, I will be unavailable next week, I'll be at Disney ;) __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

June 25th, 2006, 06:56 PM	#46
Jonathan Nelson Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Kingman Arizona Posts: 298	As a free service, I think what you have is great! No disappointment here. I would watch every episode and would love to see the dudes you hang out with everyday. I only commented on the lack of technical details because you mentioned charging people to watch it which is fine, but for me to pay for that I would need to see more techie stuff. Just a suggestion and thanks for not taking it negatively. I wish I could be apart of this project of yours. I would even do it for free!

June 25th, 2006, 07:16 PM	#47
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	OK, here's the deal. We typically shoot that show on Saturdays to allow for our company's paying production schedule and the cast and crew, some of whom give their off-time. We'll fly you out and put you to work on Camera 3 and you can see what the shoots are all about and meet some of the best people in TV. Or I can fly out to Kingman, pick you up in the Cessna and we can have a couple of hours flight back to Santa Monica to talk film.

June 25th, 2006, 07:57 PM	#51
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	As a few thousand people on the board will tell you, it's not putting me out. The last thing I want to sound like is, oh, heck, I don't know what the word is but my wife's and my whole life is all about using what we have to educate and help people in this industry. Paolo's life story is a great one and a great example of what 2nd Unit and our lives are all about. He's a house guest here all week because I want him to meet the people who can make a difference in his chosen profession so he's headed to a premiere at the ASC with us with us Tuesday night and working here throughout the week after hanging out with us in the Motorcoach at CineGear al weekend. So, as I said, I don't want to sound whatever but I do want people to understand that there are people out there who just give and don't ask anything in return. That's why your individual and collective opinions are so importnat to us here. We take what we're doing and giving very seriously. So let us set the schedule over the next two or three days and you can pick the set you'd like to work on. I can fly out and pick you up or fly you in commercially the same as I did for Warren and a few other members of the board who have worked with us here. Our house is large enough to host a few people so you'll stay here or in a hotel of your choice, your pick. I don't want you spending your own money. Ypu're donating your time to 2nd Unit and that's enough. Tell you what. Take the money you would use to fly out here and subscribe to the site for a couple of months !!! ;-)

June 25th, 2006, 09:10 PM	#53
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	Now now. No one referes to anyone as that. If we did, we'd all be that to each and every guest we have on set. I mean, can you image my position next to, say, Rodney Charters. What he accompllished or rather is accomplishing on "Molly" right now is incredible through his use of light, diffusion and imaging. Or Izzy Mankofsky who DP'd "Somewhere in Time" who I talked to yesterday afternoon at CineGear with George. There was a scene toward the end of that movie that was all his making. He's focused on Christopher Reeve as he comes out of the hotel and sits on a bench. He swings the camera 180 as he follows Reeve and split dioptics the scene where Christopher is in the foreground and 100 yards away, behind and well-below Reeve, Jane Seymoure appears from behind a treeline onto a greass field. The hotel is white, Reeve is in brown, Seymoure's in pure white and the grass and trees are a brilliant emerald and kelly green. Both in focus at the same time. With experience like that, I don't know of many people in this industry who aren't subserviant to that kind of talent. Anyway, I'll e-mail you with the days that are available for camera and the names of the guests. You can choose which day and which guest you want to work with and we're happy to have you. And thank you for volunteering your time. You'll be working with some other great people from the board. And as to the Cessna, I use it like most people use a car so it's just another tool.

June 26th, 2006, 08:26 AM	#56
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	Well, keep making those recommendations than make the site better so when we start charging a small access fee, we'll start generating some income, bring you in as a Supervising Producer, pay you a salary and get you those benefits. But you'll have to come out and actually work with us soon. I'll have the dates and guests nailed down this week and get them over to you.

June 26th, 2006, 10:00 AM	#58
John Kang Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 219	Hey Keith, Disney? Heh, looks like you don't really need those company benifits. ;) Jonathan, as another member in the cheaper by the dozen category, all I can say is, have you thought about other ways of distribution? After all, you will be competing with the subscribers money allocations. There's only so much money a guy can spend. DVD's, games, new camcorder, monthly cable/dish bills, etc... What you are competing with, it's a hard take. Most users on DVinfo might sign up, but would that be enough to keep your site running? What's your pay structure going to be like? Free trial date for visitors? I'm of the type that get turned off from sites such as these. I don't like the auto payment deduction after the free trials bit. I say, you might want to think about offering your services for free. That is, content you produce for the web. A partnership with Brightcove or using Brightcoves structure would be interesting and something you should look into. They offer the bandwidth and profit sharing for your content, or you pay them a certain amount and get all the revenues made from your shows. You can offer DVD's for sale of the show to make extra money. Copy streaming content over DVD? I would purchase a DVD (if I needed it), after watching it on the web. Think-transcripts and shows sold on networks and PBS. Just a thought.

June 26th, 2006, 11:45 PM	#60
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	By now you know that I'm a reasonably fun-loving guy but I 'd seriously like you all to think about some things when it comes to 2nd Unit. Alot of people are putting alot of time and money into this venture to bring you things quite frankly you'd be hard-pressed to see or hear anywhere else. We know that there's competition out there for limited dollars but from as business perspective, there are a number of assets you can get from 2nd Unit that you can't get anywhere else. First is the fact that we're incorporating a number of the subscribers' suggestions as we continue to refine the process. Where else can the viewer write the script, ask for an interview and information on issues that affect them and get them back in video format. Simply put, would you rather buy a book that tells you what to do and augments those words with still pictures or have the guy who invented the solution on tape explaining the theory behind the thing and visually showing you how to employ it? Next there's the fact that magazines that sell for $7 to $12 a month are comprised of 75% ads with the rest a grab-bag of info, most of which is slanted towards the advertisers' view points. 2nd Unit is pure filmmaker info that the viewer wants to see and hear about. And for $5 - $10 a month, virtually the same amount of money, 2nd Unit subscribers get 4 new issues within that same month quadrupuling your investment dollar. Next, 2nd Unit brings professionals to the viewer eager to provide the same information that's made them king of the hill to you that can send 2nd Unit subscribers right back to their cameras to better their own productions. Want to see how Michael Mann got a particular shot? It's on 2nd Unit. Want to see how DP star and Sony poster boy Jody Eldridge who lasted so long on JAG and made the jump to NCIS lights his scenes for the 2nd most popular series on TV today? It's on 2nd Unit. Want to hear and see Armageddon's Mauro Fiore, 24's Rodney Charters, Dukes of Hazzard's Brian Crane, Star Wars' David Tatersol and Pirates of the Caribbean's Raphael Sanchez talk about light and camera? They're exclusively on 2nd Unit. Need to stream the shows or download them later. You can do it on 2nd Unit. Want discounts on equipment all filmmakers use? You'll get it by being a 2nd Unit subscriber. Want to go on-set with televisions's hottest series? 2nd Unit's cameras take you there. Want to know what filters do what? 2nd Unit will tell you. And we're doing a complete series on each of the Tiffin filters, how they should be used and when and their effects....all on podcasts that are immediately available to the members and all that show the before and the after videos...not still images out of a catalogue. And finally, want podcasts you can download and take with you anywhere? They're only available through 2nd Unit. In short, 2nd Unit gives you access to people and places you'd never get access to by yourself and we do it all for 1/4 the cost of a monthly, ad-filled magaine. In short, 2nd Unit brings Above- and Below the Line people to Above and Below the Line people all to the benefit of its subscribers and independent filmmakers through its guests' insight, experience and knowledge. That's something you'll simply never get without 2nd Unit. Honest, straight-forward, in your face discussions with today's top DPs, cinematographers, directors, producers, gaffers, manufacturers, etc gives the independent filmmaker invaluable information working to improve his or her craft. So I guess the bottom line is will people pay $5 or $10 a month to get access to people and information they'd otherwise be hard-pressed to get? We hope so becasue, again, the insight of the guests appearing on the site is generally unavailable except where the viewer is fortunate enough to be enrolled in USC School of Film or another prestigious institution with tuitions topping the $40,000 a year mark or is alrady working on sets. 2nd Unit is a true non-profit organization whose mission it is to bring reliable information and opinion to the filmmaking community with all of the profits derived there from reinvested in the operation and growth of the site. Being video-based, the site is exceedingly bandwidth-intensive and thus costly to maintain. Being video-based, the content is subject to costly, labor-intensive post-production work to assure a quality show each and every week. Being video-based, there is an entertainment value to the site to anyone who might happen by. 2nd Unit is intended for the benefit and sole and exclusive use of the independent filmmaking community and by charging a nominal fee, we assure that the casual passerby does not use up valuable bandwidth thus slowing the data rate of the episodes web cast to the independent filmmaking community for whose benefit 2nd Unit was created. And finally, why the small fee? Becasue we have talent to pay, talent who is working for 2nd Unit as a way to gain valuable experience in the entertainment industry's field of their choice. 2nd Unit is dedicated to paying them a decent wage that provides them with the ability not only to provide for their own and their family's needs but to acquire advanced equipment as their level of experience, knowledge and need advances. I sincerely hope that all of this gives everyone food for thought. Again, we're not in this for the profit. We're in it to help the independent filmmaker be a better filmmaker and I've already put almost $150k where my mouth is. We'll see where it leads.