Avid Xpress Users?

[Carl Hicks]

All:

One of the best work-arounds in using HDV1 with Avid is to not deal with capturing tape at all. Shoot on the DR-HD100 hard drive. The .m2t files on the drive easily import into Avid. When importing, you choose one of the DNXHD codecs, and the .m2t files are transformed to DNXHD.

For output, export to one of several HD formats, or burn to DVD-HD or Blur Ray.

[Antony Michael Wilson]

Yes, that's all very well if you're shooting 720p/30 but what about those of us in PAL land? There isn't even a 720p/25 project type yet, let alone native HDV1 support via firewire or data ingest from a Firestore. The only solid solution for us is the Convergent interface and for HD you have to cross-convert to 1080i and capture with at least MC Adrenaline with the HD option board. Sledgehammer to crack a nut, I'd say.

There's an Avid software update (AXPro through to Symph Nitris, as usual) due this month. I'll eat my hat if there's any HDV1 improvement in that release.

[Shaun Wilson]

Yeah word is 5.7 should be out in about a week and will include 720p50 as a project type but no HDV1 support as yet. I say "as yet" with this foolish tiny amount of hope remaining that they will one day wake up and smell the JVC userbase.

[Steve Benner]

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

There's an Avid software update (AXPro through to Symph Nitris, as usual) due this month. I'll eat my hat if there's any HDV1 improvement in that release.

As will I. There really is no chance though, from what I have heard. Pathetic really. NAB will mark two years of Avid promising HDV1 support. Two years. Pathetic.

[David Parks]

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

All:

One of the best work-arounds in using HDV1 with Avid is to not deal with capturing tape at all. Shoot on the DR-HD100 hard drive. The .m2t files on the drive easily import into Avid. When importing, you choose one of the DNXHD codecs, and the .m2t files are transformed to DNXHD.

For output, export to one of several HD formats, or burn to DVD-HD or Blur Ray.

I don't have the Firestore yet, maybe soon. But it does seem that if Firestore would add DNXHD wrapper/codec support in QT (like they have for Canopus AVI) then you could at least import/ edit in a 720p/60 project. So, then you covered with all of the 720/p frame rates here in North America. Then Avid only needs to get off their butts and offer 720p/50.

It should be possible because in MPEG streamclip, all of the DNXHD options are in Quicktime. I know Firestore offers OMF recording, but if I'm not mistaken, DNXHD are all MXF file formats. So, they would have to use MXF.

I'm just thinking out loud.

[Antony Michael Wilson]

Yeah, DNx encoding direct to disk would be great but the data rate is probably too high for a single drive for the mastering codecs - it's equivalent to around uncompressed SD. Still, it would be great. The DNx codec is the only remaining reason I'm prepared to wait it out a bit longer. The Canopus HQ and HD codecs aren't bad but IMHO not close to DNx. For HDV acquisition, DNx is much more than good enough, I'd say.

[David Parks]

Originally Posted by Antony Michael Wilson

Yeah, DNx encoding direct to disk would be great but the data rate is probably too high for a single drive for the mastering codecs - it's equivalent to around uncompressed SD. Still, it would be great. The DNx codec is the only remaining reason I'm prepared to wait it out a bit longer. The Canopus HQ and HD codecs aren't bad but IMHO not close to DNx. For HDV acquisition, DNx is much more than good enough, I'd say.

Good point. So maybe they use DNXHD 75, or 90 or even 110. Ranging from 75 to 90 or 110 Mb/s. Then you could edit in DNXHD 145 or 220. I mean I can edit 110 on my internal notebook IDE drive. I'm sure there is more to it than throughput.

Maybe JVC can get Firestore and Avid to sit down and draw this up. I mean certainly Firestore has a lot to gain.

Am I looking through rose-colored glasses??? Probably.

[Steve Benner]

Originally Posted by David Parks

Am I looking through rose-colored glasses??? Probably.

I don't think the Firestore will be able to do this in it's current condition. Remeber, with the .MOV update, all it is doing is "Wrapping" the HDV file into a .MOV file, not transcoding it. DNxHD is entirely different, and would involve a complete transcode.

[David Parks]

Originally Posted by Steve Benner

I don't think the Firestore will be able to do this in it's current condition. Remeber, with the .MOV update, all it is doing is "Wrapping" the HDV file into a .MOV file, not transcoding it. DNxHD is entirely different, and would involve a complete transcode.

So it is just wrapping an m2t in .mov. Makes sense. Thanks for taking my glasses off.

[Jiri Bakala]

Originally Posted by Patrick Synnott

Avid does not work with 720/30 capture from JVC GY-HD100 or 200 or BR-HD50 or have consistent import .m2t from the FS4ProHD.

Patrick, it DID work - somewhat. I edited a 7-minute project shot in HDV 720/30p using AXP on a Mac last September. It wasn't the most current version, I think it might have been 5.6.2 or 5.6.3. The piece was edited and exported back to tape as a m2t file. How is this possible? I don't know...one thought is that the show I edited was 100% MOS, so perhaps AXP can (or could) capture but either without audio or with audio out of sync - which I never checked. I recall that I had some clips that would not capture no matter what I tried and the only way to get them in was to turn audio in the capture window off. And also sometime to shorten them from say around 10 minutes to three chunks of 3-4 minutes.

So, yes, you are right, this is not a solution, not even a workaround. It's absurd and very frustrating that other (sometimes lesser software) can do it, yet Avid can't. Keep banging at Avid's door....I do too.

[Patrick Synnott]

"MOS" Mit-on-sound or Man-on-street?

I am presuming mit-on-sound. As, for the clips that imported with the error, all audio drifts out of sync. Focus acknowledge the issue, as does Avid - but no fix yet.

[Jiri Bakala]

Mit on sound - yes. While capturing, sometimes the record window in Avid would be skipping frames or freezing them every now and then but the captured clip was fine. Other times the capture would abort half way through and I would have to make the clips shorter in order to get them in. Yes, there is no solution yet, perhaps 5.7 will change that.

[Vito DeFilippo]

The story I heard was that MOS was "Mit out sound" from an old German director's mispronunciation of "With".

Makes a good story, anyway...

[Patrick Synnott]

Heard back from Avid engineering - they are receiving an FS4ProHD from Focus on Monday and will begin testing. The thought is that the FS4ProHD records .m2t files differently than the FS100 (which is approved by Avid). According to Focus the file record is no different between the two drives.

So, Avid is moving forwards - slowly, but moving forwards.

[Jiri Bakala]

Originally Posted by Vito DeFilippo

The story I heard was that MOS was "Mit out sound" from an old German director's mispronunciation of "With".

Makes a good story, anyway...

Yeah, you are right...I heard the same story, now that you reminded me...:-) I guess it would be the most plausible of the urban legends out there.