Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I've had photographers comment on the amount of gear and cameras I have. Then again I've encountered teams of 3 Photographers covering a Wedding not to mention those packed with lighting gear, lugging lighting stands, portable power packs and professional lights on outdoor shoots. So Photography doesn't always equal less gear. Though many get by on less.

I never lose lens caps, it's always more important gear I've left behind and forcing me to return, sometimes the next day. Such experiences have helped me to adopt a work practise that minimalises such mistakes cos they are a pain in the ass when it happens and costly.

The rumours of the fullframe Panasonic have led me to a few wobbles with my Pocket 4K pre-order, but the fact is
1. I can afford it.
2. I get to play with it over the quiet winter months. A few Personal projects to keep me busy.
3. It comes with Resolve, which was already on my radar, even if just for having non subscription based editing software.
4. Be nice to work with a non Panasonic camera for a change.
5. Image looks nice.

As I've done some Photography work this year, a camera better than the GH5 is something I'm considering. Though I'm prepared to wait and see how this Panasonic rumour turns out. If not, I'd be more interested in Fuji or Nikon. Fuji do lovely colours, so as a proper hybrid I'd more pick that than Sony to be honest.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I am certain the BMP4K can be used, but I don't trust enough to go from the unboxing video to a paid wedding shoot, to not be skilled in its usage, to be caught by surprise by I can only imagine what, a long boot time, short battery life, problem seeing the lcd screen etc. It looks pretty good though with buttons on the outside. I never question what the 2nd shooter brings, but I am hoping he sure as hell knows what he's doing with it. Sometimes they appear on the outside secure and experienced, only to realize, he's not even pointed in the right direction. I always have an eye out, looking ahead of the viewfinder, looking for the upcoming action, keeping track of the other shooter, ready to change angles, and always before I stop recording.

Personally, I am wary of FF for video, mainly due to size and weight. It's one thing to be a photographer, she swings the camera into a point, gets the shot, takes a different angle, shoots another. The videographer could be stuck hand holding the camera steady in one angle for an extended period, and he can't move or break the pose because if he does and there's no backup, the shot ends right there. That can be extremely tiring, you can't be too light, just remaining that still for a long time can wear you out. And yet, these hand held shots can be the best, better than what you get on the tripod, more dynamic, framed tighter, focus and zoom in synch with the action. Tripods and monopods are acceptable when everything is static, horrid when you move or recompose. I try to keep the tripod for a backup/safety shot, wide, don't change the framing composition, i.e. boring footage! But the handheld shots, they have a style and dynamic that keeps them interesting, even better than gimbal except for walking around, but even walking handheld can work. This is the advantage of dslr shooting style.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Well the GH5 is hardly small and some of the MFT lenses are hardly light. Some pair the sigma 18-35 lens with the GH5. It's not that far off a FF camera with lens for weight and size.

I've just seen the Panasonic announcement. I'm sold. I can see me adding a S1, 24-105 and the 50mm lens to my kit next year when it comes out. With my GH5, GH5s, Pocket 4K, and a couple of GH4r, I've got all bases covered for my Business. Can't wait.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Size and weight is not a issue anymore with mirrorless full frame camera's, the a7III is smaller and lighter then a gh5, some lenses however can add quite a bit of weight.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I"m usually sold when I see how a camera performs :) On paper it all looks nice but from what I can see it's focus is still contrast based dfd technology like the gh5 and we know how that works out. Panasonic promised very good autofocussing on the gh5 but it basically suxs so I would not trust much from them anymore untill it's proven in the field.

I"m sure it will do great though but it's a very premature system that has to grow, that 24-105 will most likely be a f4 lens and it will take a while before Panasonic and other lens manufacturers will deliver a broader range of affordable lenses, they have to as the Leica L mount native lenses are very expensive.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Noa, you're speaking to a guy who pre ordered a pocket 4K back in April and who got the GH5 literally on the day of release and was shooting a Wedding with it 2 hours later. :) I go with my instincts with gear sometimes.

Yeah I'm a bit concerned about the AF, but hoping that there's more to it. AF does work on the GH5, it's just unreliable. Apparently we have yet another update end of October to add some improvements. If they can eliminate the loss of focus at critical moments, then who knows, maybe DFD can work. We'll see. It's the only downer I can find so far in this camera.

Either way, it's fullframe with 50p 4K. I can see it fitting in nicely with my other cameras. Rumours it can take MFT lenses with an adaptor would allow me to still make use of my current lenses in a pinch if needed. If I want fullframe, and it would be nice to have that option, then it's either this or Sony, or Nikon. Pansonic has served me well and I'm prepared to wait. I'll need further specs of course but what I've seen so far interest me.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I jumped in with great interest the moment the Panasonic email arrived with me at 13:49 this afternoon; I've used Panasonic a lot in the past. But soon I was feeling underwhelmed and the thoughts I'd made for myself have now been articulated by Tony Northrup in his initial video:


He had even expressed what I was going through: "Is this the end for micro 4/3?"

There are so many unknowns for now. It hadn't occurred to me that 4k 6fps might have to be cropped. Perhaps there will be a viable competitor to dual pixel auto-focus. Perhaps it will all come good.

There is another new video. I tried to watch it but the editing is so awful I couldn't finish it:


BTW think carefully, very carefully, if you are considering the Nikon Z7 if your work involves a lot of low-light scenarios:

Depressing Low-Light Specs of the Z7 - FM Forums

Yikes.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I kind of skimmed the video. Seriously how can anyone make a 17 minute video out of the little we have been told about the camera. Basically he was just doing the press release over again. Some people have too much time on their hands to post this kind of stuff. A video for video sake. Alas a trend with YouTube with lots of 'look at me' vloggers popping up everywhere for their 15 mins of fame.

Plus he's got his facts wrong. I've seen the LCD screen and it's a bit more than 3 axis tilt. Not quite sure what it is, but basically it comes out on some levers and can swing out and also tilt. Weird choice. But nothing like he described.

And the fact Panasonic have developed a lovely new 10 to 25 mm 1.7 lens for the 4/3s suggests they are still committed. After all, even Canon run different size sensors as do Nikon with fullframe and APS-C, so why not Panasonic, albeit with a larger difference in size. There's room for both and this is just Panasonic offering a fullframe camera in their line up. Something many have called for. Given Canon and even Sony are stalling here as they protect their cinema camera lines, it's a welcome move.

However the camera is 6 months from release, so I'm not sure what people were expecting in terms of wow news. As the guy in the video put it. Bit like the GH5, we won't get specs till the New Year. However if we are getting the GH5 in fullframe form, I think that's pretty wow enough for me. :)

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Because that is how they make money, with over 1 mil subcribers and many viewing I bet he can cash in real nice by simply repeating what we all allready know.

I never care that much about those early "reviewers", I often look for reviews from people who have been using the camera for months instead of a few days just for the sake for getting attention and making extra YouTube money.

I instead will be waiting for Steve to tell us how bad the camera is once he receives his pre-order. :)

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Oh dear Steve you're coming across a bit bit shillish again :- )

Northrup isn't any old Youtuber, he has well over a million subscribers, has an enormous amount of detailed info online with just the odd bit of wrong info here and there (which he corrects when his detractors to their enormous delight find mistakes), and is one of the very first to get the physical gear from the manufacturers e.g. Canon EOS-R mirrorless. He has been a huge advocate of the GH5 / GH5s in the past though he seems to be less enamoured with them in recent months. Personally I've never liked what I regard as the CGI look of some of his GH5 videos.

But the main thing that jumped out at me was that to all intents and purposes many people looking at the Panny full-frame and lenses will look at it as a complete change of system. Why do that when Nikon, Canon, and latterly Sony have vast and proven kit. And by the time the Panny bodies arrive next year and the more varied Panny lenses in 2020 the competition will have moved ahead as well.

All the stuff about 4k and 10 bit and 4:2:2 etc sorry but you could not be more wrong. Kit for the masses is already close to mature. Just think what the audiophiles are like as a comparison; they bang on about features that no-one else knows about or cares about - they embarrass themselves. I do use a cinema audio system - 5.1 on a 7.1 AV receiver with KEF eggs but thats mainly because the recent flatscreen TVs have such poor onboard audio. My recent AV receiver does Dolby Atmos but I won't bother with that. I upgraded it because it does an Audio Return Channel and that wasn't available the last time I upgraded one 10 years ago. Does anyone bother having a separate CD amp anymore or separate speakers. Ha ha.

My daughter can shoot 4k on her iphone. I can shoot 4k on my Galaxy S9. 4k is about as interesting as 3D and curved TVs :- )

Noa: Stop Press- Northrup does loads of extended training videos some 90 minutes and more and highly detailed. He could only report of the Panny fullframe details as they exist obviously but his channel is the go to place for first info as well as full-on.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

He only made that video for the sake of attention and earning some extra cash and who can blame him for doing so because that is for a part how he makes a living :) I"m just stating a obvious fact that such early "previews" have no value whatsoever as he only repeats what has been officially announced and then shares some personal opinions like his "prediction" that Panasonic will leave the MFT system soon and that it would be ridiculous that Panasonic would develop 2 systems simultaniously. Is that a part of the odd bit of wrong info he trows out there? :)

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Peter I have a personal dislike of vloggers and that includes the famous ones too. Its an annoying trend nowadays for any Tom, Dick or Harry to suddenly decide they can be a presenter and tell everyone things their viewers could quite easily figure out for themselves. The fact they are successful speaks more to their charisma than their knowledge. Its the same all the World over; is Arnold Schwarzenegger the greatest ever actor - no, but well paid and popular over many who can do better acting. I'm sorry but a million subscribers made up with people with too much time on their hands to give these kind of videos their attention is hardly a ringing endorsement.
Maybe he has done some excellent instruction videos. In which case, stick to them and leave trash opinion piece videos to the same place I'd stick most vloggers, Room 101. :)

Sorry, but I just don't get this modern thing of vlogging. I'd rather read a good book frankly - I'm old fashioned in that extent. :) Seriously I just don't see the point of videos like these and they seem merely there to justify the existence of these people who feel they'd be forgotten if they don't post videos regularly, regardless of content. It is basically a repeat of the press release that video you showed, so why do it. His opinions seem almost scaremongery and not even accurate to anyone who actually watched the Press release. I saw a bit of it and enough to know micro 4/3s is not dead or else why release such a wonderful new lens for it. Its not rocket science.

Because someone like me who has a liking for Panasonic and who hasn't invested in Sony cos their colours are crap, or Canon because they fail to innovate on their smaller bodies for video or Nikon because they are still new to video, would gladly invest in said system. Before this announcement I was considering getting a fullframe camera anyway, which would require news lenses as all my lenses are 4/3s. So there's no great cost beyond what I would incur if I did go down say the Sony route as Noa has done. I'd prefer to stick to Panasonic if I can. It's easier matching colours and I'm use to how they do things.

Not sure what that means or how I could be more wrong. A better codec is a better codec if you wish to colour grade. And if that isn't important, I take it your Photographs are all shot on Jpegs rather than RAW. If you do shoot RAW, why do you feel Photography needs a better codec and Videography does not. Probably because you are a Photographer first and a Videographer 2nd. I'm the other way round, though really have little interest in Photography. So we are approaching our work from two different and opposing perspectives. So I appreciate you feel 4K, 10 bit and 4:2:2 is meaningless. However not to me, and as my demands and needs for my work are my own, my opinion on the subject is not wrong, being as it is applicable to my work, and clearly just different to your own perspective. Nothing wrong with that.

And yet no one has asked me to shoot 3D or to make my videos suitable for curved TV's. ;) My Parents own a 4K TV though not 3D or a curved TV. I have had many clients ask me if I shoot 4K. 4K also gives me better stills than HD which some of my clients pay for. 4K makes for better HD, something you wouldn't know using Canon. :) 4K has allowed me to crop for some videos where clients have asked me to. So 4K may not be interesting to you, but then you're not my client. I'm not that interested in 3D, but I am in 4K and ultimately in HDR one day. Is it essential to my work, no, but then as it's my own work, surely I'm allowed to invest as much time and resources and technology as I feel like.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Perhaps Panasonic should put that quote on their marketing for the camera. :)

Besides I haven't pre-ordered it yet. I'll wait for final specs; I'm just sold so far on the concept. Fullframe, IBIS, 4K 50p, weather sealing, 2 card slots, adjustable screen for low and high angle shooting unlike the Pocket 4K. Good starter lenses for me too with more eventually for me to buy into once released, plus this collaboration with Leica and Sigma should extend the lens line up too. All sounds good so far and Panasonic don't have a history of crippling their products. However we know little beyond those facts - it's just a pre-announcement saying they plan to release this camera. So if it turns out 4K is indeed cropped, then forget it. Deal breaker for me. But I doubt it.

Now I should stop talking about this camera or I am as guilty as that vlogger spending 17 mins waffling and speculating over a camera we know very little about. :)

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

BTW, I was intrigued in how you were insulting me Peter. So I googled the word. I got the results 'Red Cherry'. Now either you're calling me cherry, which almost sounds like a term of endearment or you meant something else. :)

Closest I could find was shill, which is an assistant to a confidence trickster, who poses as an ordinary customer. Hmmm, doesn't quite fit either.

Seriously I am the sort of person whom many a good and commonly used insult can be properly thrown against me, and in fact have already been used against me :); so you hardly need invent something new.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

The Northrups do some good stuff and are also invested in GH5's but I do not really agree with him. We will have to wait for more information because all of us only have the smallest info that has been released so far. I see not reason for Panasonic not to have both MFT and full frame products.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Perhaps Panasonic could provided a M43 adaptor for their new FF camera to encourage their high end MFT customers (GH5, G9) to purchase the new camera? MFT could be their equivalent of Nikon DX lenses which are designed for APS-C but can be used on Nikon FF in APS-C mode.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

The early rumours about this camera did mention such an adaptor, but it wasn't part of the announcement. Whether the new L mount allows for such an adaptor is the question here. If it does, I can't see Panasonic not providing one given their investment in 4/3 lenses. If not someone else will make one. However it is a new lens mount so what is and isn't possible with it hasn't been revealed yet.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Ofcourse he does, I have seen good reviews from him or other usefull tutorials but the Panasonic fullframe video is just clickbait with no substance and ridiculous claims.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Well the launch of this camera is getting itself covered on BBC News. Did Nikon or Canon mirrorless announcement warrant a BBC news article? :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45627055

Side note, still not sold on the screen. Looks a bit dodgy to me.

Back to the Pocket, apparently they're shipping now to stores but there's tonnes of pre-orders to get through. I ordered early but likely I am 1 in a very long list for this popular camera, so will probably have to be patient. :(

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Well Santa finally delivered me the Blackmagic Pocket 4K before Christmas and I've spent the last 2 week's getting to know this camera. All I can say, there's a lot I really love and a few things I don't. If only it had IBIS, swivel screen and better battery, it'll be my top camera. Dodgy Focus I've learnt to deal without from Panasonic.

With a Wedding last Friday, I even got to use it as a Wedding and shot quite a bit of it on it. Bridal Preps, 90%, none of the Ceremony, 60% of the Reception and Photo shoot, none for the Speeches or 1st Dance and about 50% of the evening footage.

I have another Wedding tomorrow, and I'll be using in there too.

Frankly the things I love about it, the colours, the menu, the large screen, the ergonomics and codec.... Oh to see footage load on photoshop and watch those thumbnails spring to life rather than chug slowly away, I am already looking forward to editing the material. It's a lovely camera to use and I'm coping with its drawbacks; no swivel screen, no IBIS, poor battery life and some limitations in software.

I've got a lovely cage for it, not something I got for the Panasonic cameras, plus a battery unit that can power the camera for longer periods. Plus a few other accessories. I see this as a good production camera and look forward to tackling a few Promos, 1 of which I shoot in January, where this camera really comes into its own.

So far, the issues of batteries being stuck, battery door being loose and a few other issues have skipped over my one. I had 1 case where the unit locked up, but t was not recording anything, so I just removed the battery. But I've shot loads on it over the last 2 week's. I've yet to edit the material, but what I've seen looks great. :)

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Does the cage adequately compensate for the lack of IBIS for hand-held work though, especially with it not having a swivel screen ?

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

I use the camera without a cage for handheld filming. Paired with the 12-35 Panasonic lens, I find I can get reasonably stable footage. I also the cage on for Weddings, where I use it on a Monopod so far, but I feel I shall also be using it on a tripod in Weddings to come. I just need the accessories for the cage, so I can attach an SSD to the cage, then I shall be properly in business.

I'm also coping well with the fixed screen. It's an issue, but not as much as I thought it would be. Helps that it's a marvellous screen as long as you don't have a lot of sun.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

Would be nice to see some sample (unedited) hand-held footage.

Personally, I find the camera shake in the hand-held shots in this video very distracting:

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

We must have widely different views of very distracting. I played the video expecting some serious shake, but given all the footage shot on the Blackmagic was handheld, I'd say there were quite a few shots there with minimum shake movement. Given he was shooting on the tube and in busy markets, where time to compose shots were limited, I think the camera coped well. Even with IBIS, I've had some shake to camera footage, or at least a wobble in the corners like a warp effect on some wide angles.

The camera shooting the behind the scenes and interview part I'm sure wasn't the Blackmagic and was a tad shakey in places. Not sure what camera was used there.

Still given on the Blackmagic he was using a wide angles lens without IS plus a 35 to 100 lens with IS, though longer focal length, the footage was more stable than some I've seen, even with IBIS. Colours looked great. No way is handheld on those lenses going to be as good as tripod or even a good IBIS, but as a compromise, it works for me in my shots and for many of the shots I saw in the video.

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

The camera and lens used in the ProAV review is listed in the comments on the Youtube video.
I have enjoyed this thread and hope to see some real world wedding sample footage from those with the camera when you can do it. cheers.
Merv

Re: 4K BM “pocket” camera for weddings
 

So it was the GH5. I've been shooting log so long on it, I hardly recognise it with its other profiles.

The comments range between those who are bothered by the shakiness of the footage and those who are not. I guess it's down to perspective and the size of the screen used to view the footage. I think those making the video agree they wouldn't handheld for professional work, and to be honest I don't either. I handheld for my personal work where a rig, monopod or tripod isn't an option. It's okay and acceptable for the right material. But for run n gun, I'd still favour the GH5 for its IBIS.