Show me the money! Getting Paid
 

Hey All-

I know everyone works differently, but I am looking for the most popular/common vote here.

Obviously you need to get paid in full before the wedding date. (maybe on the date, but there's way too much going on that day to worry about tracking down the check.)

When you book the wedding, do you ask for the full amount then?
or A down payment to reserve the date?

If it's a down payment, what do you require? A flat amount? 25%? 50%?

Thanks

Alden

50% when they sign, balance due 30 days prior. I am a bit flexible dependong on the date they book, IE: book a year in advance and I might split the retainer up, but I am paid in full 30 days prior or I have a day off with some pay.

you are not going to want to hear this:
I get paid all my money on delivery of the final products, eventually i am going to have to change that policy i am sure.
it encourages me to output faster (or used to)
it keeps me forced to deliver a product they are freaking happy to buy at the time i show it to them.
It reduces contract noise, keeping things simple COD
They know i dont get paid, UNTIL they get thier product, so if i decide to re-do the whole thing, because it wasnt good enough, they know i suffer some TOO :-)
It forces me to have proper finatial security and backup and be responcible, even if i will spend every penny they gave me within 5 days of getting it :-)
If they want to have a screaming fit about something, they can just take thier money and shove it, but beings my butt is 100% on the line, that doesnt happen. (they arent Out anything yet) so i can go back and correct something and they cant whine about having paid for it yet, cause they didnt.
its a matter of trust (to dang much)
it gets the adrenaline going better than a roller coaster ride, the day you THINK your not going to be paid
if i deliver it and it isnt worth what i am charging them, then they dont deserve to have it :-)

only a foo wouldn't take 50% down on a contract, because if someone gets tapped or hospitalised, or something terrible, you at least have 50% of the money you wont see the rest of.

one time, i got upstaged by the federal guverment collecting taxes, they had first run on the bums money, so while i was tossed on the street, some politician with a $700,000 office got paid. other than that, i walked the tightrope and couldnt afford to fall off.

Hi Alden,

Since day-one I've been a big proponent of not taking 100% upfront - i.e. before you deliver. Depending, of course, how much time you put into editing the shooting is just a fraction of the work that goes into a wedding video. Why the public goes along with paying for it before they have in in their hands is just a function of what they've come to expect, but also may have something to do with the reluctance of some people to get videographer at all. Forever I've gone 1/3 at the contract signing, 1/3 by the event day and 1/3 at completion, but recently I've made a change mostly just to improve my control of my cash flow. I now have a 'shooting fee' that is paid with the contract signing that covers just what I will do on the day of the wedding. No editing is included unless there is a same-day edit. The final editing level is chosen and added after the wedding day. When they pay for the editing, be it just raw footage, a documentary edit, a highlights montage or a cinematic edit, it gets done. If I can fit it into my schedule I do, but if it needs to get outsourced the money is there to pay the editor.

I ask for 25 % retainer's fee and balance paid on the day of. It used to be balance paid upon delivery of final product but I have been burned a couple of times and sometimes couples suffer financial hardship after the wedding and it may take some time to collect. We also do photography and we have to pay designer/ album upfront, we can't afford to have money sleeping on unclaimed albums. Just last year, I was thankful for changing my payment policy, my client got divorced 2 weeks after their wedding, had I not collected the money in full, I am pretty sure I won't be able to collect.

For many years we had a 3 payment system. Payment to reserve your date. Payment 30 days before the wedding. The rest due 3 months after the wedding. For many years this worked beautifully.

In the past year, however, we've had a 1/4 of our clients become problematic because they don't have the money for the final payment. I'm certain it's related to the economy, but that's still no good for us. I actually have a client from September of '08 who hasn't paid yet.

So this year we dropped that policy and we now require two payments; a date retainer and a 30-day payment. Collecting money AFTER the wedding can be a problem since people often spend all their money BEFORE the wedding. Given that we accept a limit number of weddings each year (15-20), we decided it was prudent to make sure we were getting paid beforehand from now on.

""my client got divorced 2 weeks after their wedding""

done right you have one more job comming up :-)
I couldnt believe it when a guy we did a wedding for called up 2 years later and asked us to film a wedding , , , HIS again. cool!

if you dont squeese them for some money, when round 2 comes up they will have to avoid you, the hiding customer , never returns for more.

i figure that is WHY a wedding is a $10,000+ deal, if you spend $10,000+ in ONE DAY, and your still not happy, your doing something wrong :-)

Right now, I'm asking for a retainer to book and the balance two weeks prior to the wedding, but I've been thinking about doing something like you're doing Joel - a set day rate for shooting the wedding, and then sort of a menu of different editing options. How's it working out for you - do brides like it?

I get 50% at the signing... the remaining 50% due before the wedding.

I can just imagine within a month after the return from the honeymoon the bills start coming in and they say, 'Dang, we still $900 on the video. SCREW IT!'

And I'm out $900 (or whatever bucks) because they changed their mind.

I have thought about breaking it up into thirds, but what I have works for me.

We break it into three payments.

1) 400 to book the date

2) 50% of remaining due 4 months before the wedding

3) The remaining balance is due anytime before the wedding. We used to say on the day of, but we decided that asking the bride and groom for money was a big downer.

Hi Guys

I also split into thirds (regardless of the booking date)
1/3rd on contract signing
1/3rd 2 weeks before the wedding
Final 1/3rd on delivery of the DVD

That works well for me as they usually pay the last 1/3rd in cash. I just feel that they need a little bit of security as well so they pay the last bit COD. I did have one client back in 2008 that had the marriage annulled after 2 weeks but at least I had 2/3rds of the money AND luckily I didn't start any editing.

If they do a last minute booking then they end up paying me 2/3rd's before the wedding. I have never had a client question me about the payment system so I guess they are happy???

Chris

By the way, I would personally recommend against trying to collect a payment on the wedding day. The final week is so chaotic that it's easy for people to forget they need to pay you, and the last thing you want is to be put into an awkward situation of having to walk away on the wedding day.

For anyone doing (or considering) the partial payment after the wedding approach, I would recommend this. Instead of collecting the final payment upon delivery, require the final payment be paid before editing begins. It still allows the B&G to spread some costs out, but it also ensures you don't spend a bunch of time editing only for the couple to go AWOL on you.

This works for me:

40% deposit to secure date
30% payment 30 days prior to date
30% payment upon screening their 'preview' copy

I like the incentive to finish an edit knowing that I will get paid!

I know of another studio who splits into 4 payments with #3 being before starting editing as Travis suggests above and #4 being COD

We take 50% to book and the rest 30 days before the event!

1 thing we've been offering to our brides when they do decide they want to book us is, we give them the option to pay in full and we give them a little discount:)

Never take money the day of the wedding, you don't wanna be that guy chasing people around to collect money!

We're completely out of step with most UK video cos and frankly other wedding suppliers but not, it seems, alone.

We take £150 deposit at contract signing, a stage payment of 50% of the total quote 30 days prior and the balance on complete satisfaction.

I agree with most of Marty's reasoning and contend that I don't know how to justify asking for 100% before I'd taken a shot or put a battery in a camera.

Our way is businesslike and straightforward. The contract will stand up in court and the amounts are well covered by the limits of the Small Claims court (in the UK).

The only exceptions are bookings within 21 days when we ask for all the money up front - but we did that for programmes under those circumstances when we were doing Corporate.

I can certainly understand the reasoning behind receiving payment before the day of, but I say the "day of" and in my experience there is either a stack of envelopes for a variety of different vendors, or something in the wedding party who is put in charge of making sure everyone gets paid. They know it's coming and prepare for it, and it's not like I'm tapping the bride on the shoulder before she goes down the aisle and asking for payment. In fact, I have never even had to ask for a payment. Someone comes to find me.

I second the opinion of those who suggest not making payment due on delivery. It reminds me of the Seinfeld bit where he talks about receiving the bill at a restaurant after you've eaten. You're loosening your belt, there's a cigarette butt in the mashed potatoes, and you can't understand it. "Why would I order this much food? I am obviously not hungry now."

I've been using the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 model and no problems in 2 years of doing this. I still feel squeemish though about shipping the proof DVD before final payment. I was thinking of adding a watermark on the proof but not sure if that invokes a feeling of mistrust with the client. Anyone doing this?

Art, I would put a watermark, it is not a trust issue but a security issue. We have made a mistake of sending a previous client high res photos on a DVD so they can choose photos for their album, they disappeared from the face of the earth.

It seems like once a year we have this discussion. Since everyone has a different business model and different markets and different personal experience, I say do what seems to work for you. My model, market and experience is different than Phillips, than Travis etc so you can't really judge what will work for you until you try it and find out it either does or doesn't. If it does, great, keep on with it. If it doesn't, change it. I've changed my payment plan a number of times over the years and finally decided on the one I've been using for a very long time. No clients have had an issue with it since it's pretty much the norm in MY area to be paid prior to the event but that here in my area. Your area market and experience is different so do what works for you.

I have to agree that sending out a copy of the DVD before receiving the final payment is a risky venture that WILL one day bite you in the backside. It's just a matter of time before you run into a client who runs out of money and just keeps the 'proof DVD'. Trust me, I hope it never happens, but if you're in business long enough .. it probably will.

talking to a popular videog in my area made me change our fee system from the 1/3 rule to pay all fees before the wedding date. He still has two from 2006, one from 2007 and two 2008 weddings that have gone uncollected since the B&G don't have the money to pay for it... we are talking about $4000 altogether..ouch! sadly, he still hasn't learned his lesson.....

Heh, he's lucky. I had 1 from 1986! I had the wedding edited ready to go within 4 weeks of the wedding and they were already in the process of divorce! Obviously I didn't get paid, kept the tapes until about a year or 2 ago finally my wife made me throw them out! Maybe I was hoping against hope ;-) Of course I still have job bags from 2001 thru 2008 in my storage. sigh, I'm ready to go on the show Hoarders! sigh.

Last year at this time, because of the failing economy, we had about $12k owed to us between photography and cinematography services due. We've since collected most of that, but are still waiting on about $4k and might well never see it. Allowing payment after the wedding is a great idea until it doesn't work. d;-)

I feel his pain! Same thing happened to us awhile back! Thats why we get full payment before the wedding!

:)

We have a not so unusual method. 30% in advance, 50% must be paid until 10 days after the wedding and the rest upon delivery (of course we don't send the DVDs until we check that bank account :) ). It seems to work well with weddings, but not so much with christenings and that's because some parents seem not to care to watch the video of their child. So, you call them and say "the DVDs are ready" and they keep and keep delaying to pay and get the product, throwing out various excuses. Well, one must maintain good relationships with clients but I have a couple of them that will maybe speak with our lawyer very soon about the contract they've signed once upon the time.

HI all,

I think every possible method has been discussed, except for giving the option to pay a standing order.

We have recently introduced this and people are keen to take us up.

We either collect 25% to book date, and 75% 3 weeks before date or, they can split the total amount payable and pay monthly for as many months as there are between booking and the date.

I like the constant flow of income, certainly works well to pay staff this way.

As ever, I feel that giving more options is never a bad thing.

Do the couple pay the church fees before or after the service - before
Do the couple pay the reception fees before or after the reception - before
Do the couple pay for the flowers before or after the day - before
Do the couple pay for the cars before or after the day - before
Do the couple pay for the honeymoon before or after, - before
Do the couple pay for the gifts to guests before or after - before.

Need I go on? Why are videographers any different?

All the couples we deal with are happy to pay before the day. It's been mentioned above, when they get back off the honeymoon, they are back to reality and realise how much their wedding has really cost.

Peter

Peter, here's another list:

Do people pay for their car service before or after the service? - after
Do people pay for their house decoration before or after the work is done? - after
Do people pay for their restaurant meal before or after they've eaten it? - after
Do people pay for their train fare before or after the journey? - before
Do people pay for their theatre tickets before or after the show? - before
Do people pay for their gasoline before or after they've driven to their destination? - before

ie lists are selective.

The answer to Peter's question I'm afraid is that apart from the honeymoon (and whoever paid for a holiday when you got back?) all this list are suppliers who deliver their entire product on the day and have no contact with the client after the event. In contrast, the video producer hasn't lifted a finger before the day. In my opinion it's an indefensible imposition and a business model about which we have very good customer response.

The argument for asking for all the money up front to avoid possible bad debts leaves the client trusting that the video producer will turn up at all. Looked at ruthlessly, his only incentive is his reputation.

Just to expand a little on the final satisfaction, we never mail out final edits (which I agree would be risky) but arrange viewings at the couples' homes. We play each of the programmes non-stop so they get the feel of the dynamic of the programme, then again with as many stops as the clients wish. We make notes of any changes required and mail back a copy the following day so they know what we're doing - and since their signature on the changes also approves the things that don't need any changes, their approval on the rest of the programmes. When a programme is fully approved (including at the first edit) we take the client's signature on the disk and make their copies (and any subsequent copies they order) from that master.

70% of all our programmes are approved at the first edit and we've had no bad debts (for which we have a watertight contract anyway). We also accept credit cards if they really are stuck for cash after the wedding. Incidentally, I think Vince's standing order solution is very commendable too.

Our business model - Money in FULL before wedding. That's the way we work.

We don't offer viewings or proofing. The client books us based on our showreel and the editing decisions are left to us.

That is our business plan which has worked for us from day 1.

Every client to date who has booked us has given us 100% positive feedback from our work.

They book us on our terms and conditions. If they don't like it, they find someone else. It's as simple as that. Philip, your business plan works for you. Great, but I would not choose this plan for us......

Find out what works for your business, make it clear in writing and communication with your clients is key.

My two pence worth.

to true and it makes you think, but there is an array of people who recieve checks (whole or part) at the end of the day of an event, after they did thier work.
i have seen the check passout as events were culminating, that is what others are speaking of when we see other people collecting money from tired worn out people, who are sometimes drunk, and just want to finish up and go home.
Dj, Bar, Caterers, (people who actually delivered already) sometimes photographer, sometimes video people, be the check all or in part, its the end of the day begg and pay session. with the photographer and video not having delivered anything, for all the client knows they didnt even have film in the cam :-)

myself i would not hire a contractor to work on my roof, and pay them the entire ammount till the roof was again waterproof, why would i expect my clients to pay me Everything when they have Nothing, zip, nada, zilch.
so there is acceptions to all rules, and a balance to all things.

how could "other" evil video people SCAM your clients, and ruin things for all of us, run around with a cam with no tape/chip in it, without any ability to use it, with a Demo that is meaningless because like many "Teams" of video people, the demo didnt come from the people SENT (subcontract) to shoot the video.
or just take on a year worth of clients and dissapear.
By the pay first definition, the parties can have forked over everything, and get actually nothing. or nothing worth having.
we dont want video controlled by large corporate structures that people will then "trust" do we?

so i am saying that defining that as "Standard" that the client with no roof has paid for all the materials and labor , and the crooked roofer leaves them broke penniless and soaked :-)

people arent paying us to run around and look like we know what were doing :-) people paying us because thier roof is fully recovered, it looks great , they are dry and happy and the job is actually finished.

a Con-Man has a far better sales pitch, than the persons who deliver, because they have only one thing to do :-)

One more time and then I think this thread needs to go away. We go thru this subject at least once a year and it's very silly to keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

Whatever your business model, pay up front or or after or whatever, if it works for you and you're happy and satisified with the results fine. It doesn't mean to say that your way is the only way or is the right way for everyone. What works for you, may not work for me end of story.
After 37 of self employment I think I know my business model pretty well and really don't need anyone telling me their way is better for me than something I've been using for probably 20+ years in my business model anymore that anyone else me to say that my way is the best for them.
I think everyone has had their say and expounded on why their way is best for everyone and why no one elses way is any good so I think we've gone as far as we can and still be civil with one another.
Chris, I think it's time to close it. Just one mans opinion.

I guess all you established veterans of DVINFO.NET must be the ones Don Bloom is talking about...this is the first time I have read this thread and found it highly interesting and informative. Thank you everyone for you input. It helps the new folks around here too.

Hi John,

I've only had the new system in effect for weddings booked since late summer, but it seems like couples 'get it'. I have to explain that the pricing for the editing options won't rise between the time they book and the time they decide on an editing option. That seems to make the decision to secure me for the wedding easier. In the only case that I've had from a fall wedding under this arrangement they've chosen to add two editing options on top of the sde. I know that is more than they would have chosen had it been necessary to write those decisions into the contract.

I think this may work out very well. For one I like the idea of splitting the invoicing for tax reasons. It so much easier to determine which quarter to apply income to. It also may work well from a sales perspective, especially if the editing option decision is made within a short time after the wedding and the emotions are still high. By this time next year I'll know for sure...