Which wedding NLE under $700?
 

I produce wedding videos part time. I've done 16 in the last 18 months. I hope to eventually do this for a living, but I need tools that can get the job done and MediaStudio Pro 7 (Service Pack 2) isn't reliable enough. Even after reformatting my system drive and reinstalling everything, MSP 7.2 crashes when I render previews to be shown on an external monitor. I'm falling behind on a project and I'm sick of jumping through hoops to make this application work as it should; otherwise it would be a great tool.

That said, I'm considering the following packages:

Matrox RT.X10 (w/Premiere Pro, etc.) for $650
Avid Xpress DV 4 and ADS Pyro 64 FireWire card for $500 (after rebate)
Canopus DV Raptor RT 2 Max w/Edius 2.0 for $599
Canopus Edius 2.5 (software only) for $599
ADS Pyro Pro w/Premier Pro, etc. for $499

Which of these options would deliver the most kinds of real-time (RT) performance on my system? (See specs below.)

Pentium 4 2.8C w/HT
512MB DDR400 RAM
Foxconn Intel 865 motherboard
120GB SATA x 2
Integrated FireWire port (VIA chip)
Nvidia FX5200 28MB (dual head, from eVGA)
Windows XP Home, SP1a

I need to get off the support forums and get editing, so please let me know what you think is the best solution based on stability and real-time editing/preview capability. I like the idea of getting Avid for only $450, but can it send a preview through FireWire at least if not using any kind of breakout box? I know you're going to tell me "dowload the demo and buy the one you like" but I can't download a PCI card. (Too many people say Premiere Pro is a dog without hardware acceleration.)

Thanks,

T.J.

Another NLE you might want to look at is Vegas. With it you CAN download the demo as it doesn't use any form of hardware acceleration to do it's job.

Most definitely Vegas 5.

Oh yeah...
 

Forgot about Vegas. Thanks for the reminder.

I used to work with MSP and then found Vegas. Once you learn the controls (takes just an hour or so) you'll find that it is very condusive to fast content creation. You should really be pleased with the realtime performance, quality, and most of all the ease of use.

And I'll just add that I've spent a good amount of time on several other editors as well. FCP is one and it was solid but very in depth. Premiere is an accident waiting to happen and is also unstable.

Things that take 5 steps and minutes in other editors can be done in seconds on Vegas.

Ben Lynn

Vegas 5

Next choice...

Vegas 4

Next choice...

Vegas 3

After that, I'd start looking at Premiere.... :)

The Firewire card you get doesn't really matter. I use a $20 no name one, which works exactly the same as the more expensive name brand ones.


So just in case you missed my previous point....

V E G A S ! ! !

:)

In case you missed the previous posts:

VEGAS :)

Wow it's great to see so much support for Vegas. I'm one of 3 Vegas users in the 100+ member videographer's association I'm affiliated with.

Regarding firwewire capture card- you might not even need one. Most new motherboards have FW built in. I personally use my Audigy card's FW port without a hitch.

Vegas 5 baby!

Wow!
 

This response says a lot about Vegas and its usefulness in wedding videography. I downloaded a Vegas 5 tryout yesterday. After I finish my two active projects and have a little break in my calendar, I'll install the demo and give it a whirl. I'm a little wary of having to learn a new NLE. I was planning on doing it anyway, but on something a little more "industry standard" such as Premiere or Avid.

Oddly enough, when I worked in MSP 7 last night everything ran like a charm. I finally got a response from Ulead tech support, so I'll follow the prescribed steps and see if stability persists. Sometimes I wish I never upgraded from MSP 6.5, but the Dolby AC-3 audio encoding makes a noticeable difference in the DVDs I burn.

Yeah that was the biggest drawback making the switch. I feel having prior experience editing under another NLE suite actually hurts you when going to Vegas because of how "different" it is. I honestly feel I would have picked it up faster if I was a complete newb- a blank slate. So needless to say I had to unlearn many workflow principals instilled from two years of Premiere.

I must say however- there WILL be a turning point in your education of Vegas. It hits most of us like a revelation or an epiphony....you'll soon realize how much it DOES make sense and how blatently logical it all is. After a few years working in Vegas I haven't looked back since. "Industry Standard" THIS!

I know there are already lots of these Vegas vs Premiere threads but does Vegas support the nested sequences paradigm that premiere supports? That to me is such a cool concept.

Billy, it currently does not. What I normally do is edit in segments, render each segment to a DV-AVI file, and then build a "final" project where I gather all the segments together.

But by doing that dont you lose video clarity because of recompressing them to avi before you can bring them all together?

No. All UNCHANGED sections are simply COPIED. So creating the first set of AVI's is, essentially, creating the final copy. The second project consists of final copies (and, in fact, I don't even render the second project, just print straight from the timeline and/or encode to MPEG2).

I'll put in my two cents here for the Canopus Edius software, which beats everything else I know of in terms of realtime performance without special hardware acceleration. Vegas seems to be more clever at "degrading gracefully" when its realtime limits are exceeded, but technically Vegas isn't a realtime editing program in the first place. With Edius I can get 2-3 layers of video (PIP) playing at full quality through the DV port on my laptop, and when I move my projects to my desktop system with DVStorm hardware I can also get realtime MPEG2 output. I haven't seen any other software which makes such efficient use of available processing power, and it's rock solid for projects up to several hours in length. I just checked the Canopus web site and they have a new "Edius DV Pack" with all the hardware and software you'd need to do complete DVD projects, for a retail price of $699.

http://www.canopus.us/US/products/EDIUS_DV_Pack/pt_EDIUS_DVpack.asp

Let me throw a cheer in here for real time editing.


If you are doing that many weddings, you will get a very large boost from RT editing. Nice as Vegas may be, it isn't anywhere near true real time.

When you are editing for money, time is the major factor and needs to be one of the major issues in your choice.

I'll agree that Vegas isn't real-time on output. However, it IS real-time on preview (degrading gracefully when effects get too complicated). But the time savings afforded by scripts (such as Excalibur for editing multiple camera shoots) more than makes up for the render time.

Bottom line - there are several good NLE's out there. It's really useful to try the demos of each before selecting the one that YOU like best (as opposed to the one that *I* like best).

I use the Matrox RT100 with PPro an I'm very happy with it. I think a lot of the negative things said about premiere mostly apply to the older versions (and well deserved). PPro was totally re-vamped and is much better than previous versions.

With the amount of editing you do you would probably benefit a lot from the hardware that comes with the Matrox and Canopus bundles.

Vegas 5 supports network rendering. The basic version allows up to 5 computers to be used. You can also purchase additional 5 pacs if needed.
If you decide to use Vegas or Premier, go to debugmode.com and download the free wax plug-in. Then you will have access to all the great virtual dub filters too.

Joe, that would be 3 computers per network rendering license.