Same Day Edit...Poll
 

So, on average, what do you charge to do a same day edit? I realize market areas are unique and the degree of artistic expression in each edit varies, but let's get a good cross section of the nation.

So, let the posts begin.

Hi Tom,

Pricing a SDE is a balancing act. There are many things to consider. If you pay for an additional person, that adds to your cost. That is the single biggest out of pocket cost if you already have a laptop and everything else to produce a SDE. So it depends on if you need to bring along an additional person and what the cost is.

Another thing to consider is the added stress. Some people love producing SDEs, but for others, the stress is so high that they feel they must be compensated properly.

Yet another item that usually affect the pricing of a SDE is what you are already charging for the wedding production. If you are charging $1500 for the regular wedding, then it would be tough to sell a SDE for $1500.

If you start doing SDEs and they become a big hit and you are the only one offering them in your market, then it would be easier to charge a premium for SDEs. Supply and demand.

SDEs are an incredible marketing tool, so some will price them very affordably and write off the expense as advertising.

So bottom line. When we do SDEs in our market we charge $1000. When videographers bring us in to do a SDE in their market under their company name, we charge $1500 plus travel expenses.

We're just starting to do more SDE's and are charging $500 for the first few. That does cover my extra shooter and planning to get everything ready. We are currently the only ones in the area offering these so if I keep booking them and they pick up a lot once we're doing more, then I will raise the prices....as mark said, supply and demand. I'm willing to charge a little less just to do them and get those people talking about them. The marketing potential there is HUGE!

Matt

Excellent point

Well, that's disheartening. You guys are pretty well known in the industry, I'd just assumed you were making more than that for a SDE add on.

I have never done SDE but if I were to do one, I would charge $ 500 (pay editor $ 250 perhaps).

For those who do SDE is this the work flow you do?

Bride Prep- hand tape to editor after shoot for upload
Groom Prep= hand tape to editor after shoot upload
Church- get second shooter to take money shots hand tape to editor upload
Park- hand tape to editor after shoot for upload.( would this be pushing it too far?).

Hi Ethan,

I'm sorry to disappoint you. We feel that our SDEs are worth $1500, but they are a very good form of advertising which is why we sell them locally for $1000. Tulsa's metro area population is about 800,000. If we were in a top ten market I'm sure we could get more for our SDEs, but then again, if we were in a top ten market, we would probably averaging more than our current $4500 for our wedding films.

Mark - hopefully I didn't ruffle your feathers with the $1000 comment, I was just surprised at that figure because of the name you've carved out for yourselves in the industry. I understand your pain with the small market pricing, my area is a good bit smaller than yours. I've grown increasingly frustrated with the earnings potential with weddings compared to the time invested in each project. I guess that boiled over into my post a bit. I'd be pretty happy to average $4500 per gig.

Quick question. Does your $1000 include an extra shooter and editor as well as on site projection/display?

Hi Ethan,

Don't worry, no ruffled feathers here. The $1000 does not include projection, but does include the necessary manpower or womanpower. ;-)

Hi Noel,

Trisha and I tag team with the editing and shooting before the ceremony. During the ceremony we use an nNovia drive for the front camera. If it's possible the back camera sends a feed to a laptop, but this isn't always possible.

We don't have park sessions very often in Tulsa. Typically the photographer does about 30 minutes of pictures and then the reception starts. Most weddings here don't even have a formal cocktail hour. I wish they did because it would buy us more time.

We usually have a third person join us during the ceremony. That way once the ceremony is over Trisha becomes the primay editor and I shoot with the third person. Our workflow is always evolving. Many times Trisha does almost all of the editing and other times I get more involved. It just depends on the circumstances of the day.

Thanks for sharing you workflow Mark. I am not planning on doing an SDE anytime soon, if I do it for the first time , it would be for free and a suprise for the B & G during reception.

Can you FIND a qualified editor for $250?

I think i I could find one. Have never looked for one honestly but judging by emails I received from people willing to shoot for free to get a feel of a wedding shoot I think I can find one.

I read this and just had to add a side comment. I can't speak for all markets, but in our market none of my brides know anything about "well known" videographers. Most of them start the planning process without even thinking about a video.

I just found your comment interesting because it's easy to get lost in our own world, and think that brides know more than they do.

We offer SDEs in two forms; one as an add-on to a package, and the other as a stand-alone package. As an add-on we offer the SDE at $1500 with the same number of people as intheir original package (2). We also offer a premium option with a third cinematographer for slightly more. The stand alone SDE only package is $4900 and includes 2 people. We are a small company that tries to be low volume, so we need to price our SDE only package higher as it means we can't book a regular cinema package or a photo/cinema package.

So far, the SDE as an add-on has been VERY popular with the majority of our couples getting it (some of our packages do have credits though, so it wouldn't add to their cost to choose this option) and the SDE only package has also been rather popular. The great news about that is that the extra 5-8 SDE only package we will do this year mean we can produce some pretty wild SDEs in not having to focus on anything else and we can also take home no backlog.

P.

Wow, I'm amazed that people are willing to pay you guys to just do an SDE. That's awesome for you guys, though, because like you said .. after the wedding you're done!

The only "well known" videographers in the Belgian weddingvideomarket are the ones that are really cheap :) (that was not intended as a joke but it's sadly true)

I really envy guys like Patrick who not only can do creative stuff like that but are able to get clients to pay that much for it. In my country it's virtually impossible to do this. People do spend quite a lot on photography here but video, no way.

I completely understand. I think Patrick and the Still-Motion team are totally awesome, but it IS frustrating that I can't seem to find the types of clients they are. I often have to work just to get people to go for all-day coverage .. and no one ever really seems interested in any other "extras".

Case in point, I had a wedding this past summer that was HUGE. They spent something like $50,000-60,000 on dinner for the guests ($100/plate and 500-600 guests), and spent money like crazy on all sorts of other things, but they wouldn't even book MY top package, which was less than $4,000. More power to Patrick and his team, but I just don't get how they do it sometimes. d:-/

My thoughts are this ... Patrick and the StillMotion team have demonstrated to their brides, without a shadow of doubt, the value of wedding videography. They've done this by consistently delivering a high quality product and charging what it's actually worth.

Recently, I was cruising around the Wedding Bee forum searching for comments or posts about wedding videography. As I find on most bridal forums, a lot of the brides were saying not to bother getting a wedding videographer, or get a cheap one for $1,000, why spend $1,500 on a dodgy wedding video when you could spend that money elsewhere etc ... Then I stumbled upon this post from one of the forum moderators who'd got StillMotion to do her video - The Milkshakes’ Same Day Edit Weddingbee The Wedding Blog

Almost 100 comments from brides blown away by the video ... Do a search for StillMotion on Wedding Bee ... there's a lot to learn from what the brides are saying. Patrick and his team have clearly demonstrated to brides the value of what they do.

Something I read recently mentioned that there's no such thing as "I can't afford it". In truth it's actually "I don't value it enough to sacrifice for it or to re-arrange my life to get it". Think about it ... if you place a high enough value on something you will figure out how to get it. You'll save like crazy or get a loan etc ...

As a relative newcomer to the wedding videography industry I'm quite disheartened by the overall state of the industry, especially when it comes to pricing. Over the years, and I'm speaking in general terms here, the industry as a whole has not effectively educated brides about the value of wedding videography. That's ultimately what it boils down to ... Does a potential bride value wedding videography enough to part with her hard earned money?

My wife is a photographer and we often talk about this topic. She says "I don't understand why wedding videography costs less than wedding photography? You guys put in so many more hours on the day, way more hours in post-production, your camera gear costs so much more, your editing computers and software cost more, you need way more hard drive space and backup drives etc... etc ...."

There are heaps of photographers who charge $100+ per page in a wedding album. How many videographers are even charging $100 per hour for their services? How can we expect brides to value what we do when through our pricing we're often not even valuing our own time and talents?

What a great response for Still-Motion, and interesting that there was another bride on there who was using them. I checked out the forums on The Knot for my city a few weeks ago, and they were basically dead. Brides just seem to have a different mindset here .. not all of them .. but most of them.

I would dare say I'm offering the best product at the highest price in my market, and I have a very good presentation when I meet with brides. But I'm obviously not booking like Still-Motion does. People think Save the Dates and whatnot are really cool, but when it comes to paying they lose interest.

I totally agree that there's really no such thing as "We can't afford that." But if the priority isn't there, you have to generate it for them. So far, it's been pretty hard to do that.

Matt you've hit it right on the head.

One thing I like to add about why a lot of people don't see the value is because what our product is compared to, a photographer can take a shot and once printed it looks like the stuff in a gallery or an expensive magazine but us videographers would have not the easiest time to make the product look like a movie which is essentially what someone who has no idea can see the value in. Stillmotion do shoot stuff that does look like a movie so for them even though they are educating the clients they are also producing a product that the potential client is blown away by so its easier to up sell and say, not only we produce that level of production but also we can give it to you on the same day!!

At this stage can't do SDE's but talking to married couples a lot of them actually have said to me that would have been awesome at their wedding, so it is simply a matter of educating and if they can see the value in it they'll go for it.

Sde
 

For our SDE's we charge $2,000 that includes projector/projection screen. Are packages range from $4,000 to $9,000 without the extra's like steadicam, dof and super 8. We like still-motion only shoot one venue a day. I am a firm believer that FINALLY videographer's are getting paid what they deserve! We actually now offer a internet recap that clients get 2 days after their wedding. That allows us for more time at half the price and a lot less stress. Especially when you are shooting weddings in NY/Westchester!

Here's a internet recap we just produced.

http://vimeo.com/1908846

Moving Pictures, Cinematic Wedding Videography

This is a very tough topic to deal with because while I agree with your points 100% I'm afraid that I'd be out of business in less than a year if I charged what I should for a wedding. Since this is my full time job, it's tough to work up the courage to double my prices tomorrow, especially since brides have been conditioned to pay lowish prices. If it backfired then I'd be in big trouble and I'd have to start delivering pizzas or something to make ends meet. Sometimes I wonder if it would be easier to drop off the radar for a year and pop back up with a new name, new branding, and new prices.

Here you might find a client who's willing to pay for it but to make a living out of it, forget it, it all comes down to finding clients paying for it once you have established yourself as a high quality videographer but belgium is too small for that. It's very clearly that what I can read from here that brides across the pond have much bigger budgets then in my country. As David stated packages between $4,000 to $9,000 would be out of the question here. Here they would find 1000 dollar more then enough for a wedding dvd and even then a lot are looking for cheaper ones! It's really ridiculous but that's the way it is here. Most just want a simple coverage, nothing fancy and especially nothing expensive.
The only way for me to survive in this business is to do eventvideography as well were I charge per camera and editing hour.

I agree completely with what Matt is saying. But, I would go one step further and say that not only is it a lack of education with brides and the value of videography, but as videographers ourselves I think we can sometimes take our job as seriously and with as much integrity as our industry reputation would dictate. In other words, many times we can act and show work that looks more like a budget video than anything else. Working with photographers here in the studio, we really use them as a role model for a successful way to create imagery, work with it in post, and present it to the couple afterwards. Each step involves a lot more thinking and consistency as we move forward, and I think that is what we can lack as an industry and it really pulls us down.

Look at the the better photographers- things like composition, white balance, exposure, contrast, and post-work are generally quite good. Do the same exercise with the better videographers and there are so many more of these fundamental issues. I believe that the reason we have so many more of these fundamental issues in our work is the same reason that we get less respect, are in less demand, and most often get paid less.

P.

I think it's all about getting a break in the high end market. We have a client that rents XDCam/Digi Betas and all he does is Wedding Videography, he charges $ 10K per wedding. I have seen his work and I can attest that half of the posters here will blow him away, not even close to Still Motion. He books 40 weddings a year. I think it's all about marketing, if you charge $ 10K people would think 2 things 1. your expensive or 2. you must be really good in what you do.

if you live in an area were you know people have such mega budgets you are right, if they pay 10k they sure want to see a demo but what do they know, we know the difference but clients don't look at the technical details. It's a general thought that when it's expensive it must be good and when it's not there must be something wrong. Especially if he arrives with a big shoulder cam that sure impresses people.

Last week I had a wedding were a friend filmed the bachelor party and edited in pinnacle studio and it was filled with cheesy transition effects, it was shaky all over the place and they all loved it when it was shown in the evening. Again prove that content is much more important then quality for a lot of people and with each transition effect everybody was going "ooh" or "aah". No 35mm adapter, no glidecam, no hdv, terrible sound...
try to explain to the couple you can do much better but it will cost them 1000+ taking into consideration their friend did it for free.

Hi Travis

Well said. I feel like I'm fighting 20 years of mediocrity. That's why the priority to cut the videographer into a larger chunk of the budget isn't there. They need to see it before they change their minds.

I do SDE's and next day edits when I can, where I can, whenever I can - whether I get paid for it or not. I may I spend 5 or 6 hours to get a highlights out early in the week after the wedding but it guarantees me 300-400 unique visitors who view the online movie. Or I may capture footage all day long and edit together a 2 minute highlight during the reception that I simply loop on the laptop in a conspicuous place. Crowds form and people rush off to get someone because 'you have to see this!'. Getting something worth paying for in to as many eyeballs as possible is the key. The way to do that is capitalize on getting something out there as fast as possible to take advantage of the excitement of the wedding day that is still palpable. Its an opportunity I can't pass up. The education aspect has to come from personal experience. Its not about getting them to come in and sit with you so you can explain it or reading about it in a bride's magazine. They need to experience it and then socialize about it - hear about from friends - talk about it when they're out. When they come to you they're pre-sold. They want to tell their friends they also got so-and-so to cover their wedding. Smiles and hugs. But it all has to happen at or right after the wedding.

From last Saturday:
~ karen and bradley | 10.4.08 ~

I agree that our industry really needs an increase in the quality standard to increase the respect, demand and pay we receive.

However, I also know that in my area brides start off their wedding planning by looking for a photographer, and it isn't because they've seen bad videos. I ask every couple that walks through our doors if they've seen a wedding video before, and probably 75% of them haven't. I really think we're up against history much of the time. Photography has been around much longer than videography, and has been a central part of weddings for a long long time. It really is just as much a tradition to wear a white dress as it is to have a photographer at your wedding.

You certainly can't say the same for videography. I've never attended a wedding as a guest where there wasn't a professional photographer, but I've yet to attend a wedding as a guest where there was a professional videographer. That's just amazing to me.

Brides don't feel this way because they've seen bad videos, they feel this way because photography has just always been a core part of weddings in their minds and in the minds of their parents and in the minds of their grandparents. Videography just doesn't have that kind of history when it comes to weddings, and I don't think it's something we can just overcome with better quality work. I honestly think it's just going to take time, in addition to education, exposure and an increase in quality.

Case in point, my wife and I just met with a couple last week. They were blown away by my work .. absolutely loved it. In fact, it was obvious that they were more impressed with the videography than they were with the photography (they loved the photography too, but I think they were already expecting to love it). Anyways, they booked a $5k package with my wife, but didn't book a videography package.

So my point here is that I blew this couple away with my quality, but at the end of the day it was more of a priority for them to get an awesome photography package, than to get a lesser package and include a videography package. I firmly believe I could have showed them nothing but Still-Motion work and my result would have been the same.

Market attitudes are different around the world. Some markets are trend-setters, and other markets are trend-followers. Some markets are trend-followers, but they take a long time to catch up with trends. I think that's where my market is at. When 3/4 of my couples haven't even ever seen a wedding video, that says a lot.

I think that's a great plan to get exposure. I would certainly find a way to incorporate it myself if I actually had time to do it on the wedding day. But when you only have 30-60 minutes between the end of the ceremony and the first dance, it makes it basically impossible.

This thread has morphed into an interesting discussion on the state of our industry. I think the reason wedding videos and films aren't appreciated to extent they should be is that the industry as a whole is just coming out of an awkward adolescence into adulthod. It wasn't that long ago that the state of the art technology for wedding videographers involved Super VHS cameras, Video Toasters and finished products on VHS tapes.

No matter what skills we brought to the product, there was only so much we could do. It's the reason I stopped shooting wedding for a long time. It was labor intensive and the end product wasn't rewarding.

Now, with better cameras, editing systems and DVD delivery, the entire game has changed. We know about this because we work it the business. Now, it's time to educate the public.

I'd like to see your wife's work. I'd also like to switch to photography. Today.

Serendipity Studios - beyond ordinary


Sometimes I'd like to switch too. d;-)

Having the opportunity to work with the Stillmotion team and shoot with the famous John Edgar, I have been able to see their clients first hand. First off when you walk into the Stillmotion facility you are treated to an absolutely beautiful studio full with meeting room and cappuccino bar. The large prints are on the walls which depict stunning brides and imagery. When you sit down in the boardroom you are seated at a table which contains amazing photos and articles in DVEvent magazine which Patrick and Michael have been published. You sit down with part of the Stillmotion team and go over the details of your wedding and are asked questions about what you want to experience. The sales pitch is far from aggressive but rather subtle and upbeat, exciting, and full of vigor. Then you are brought into the screening room which houses a 120" screen and comfy leather couches and you are immersed in a wedding film which is unlike anything you have ever experienced before. Watching a Stillmotion film is just that, a film. You don't feel like you are watching a video. There is no conversation on equipment used, why you should book them over the competitors, etc. What you have experienced is complete confidence in what they do and having spent time with them, although they are down to earth guys and girl, they definitely believe they are the best in the world at what they do and in my opinion they are. Not only do they pay attention to the details but they employ the best techniques and equipment to keep them at the top. From color grading to steadicam there work is unlike anyone's in the industry. The next time you view a Stillmotion film look for a flaw, and you will never see one. Look for shake, shadows, etc... they simply don't have them. This is why they can get the prices they do...Confidence... A couple of years ago when I met Patrick he was around the $2000 mark but believed he was worth more and went after the the higher end market and as his prices quadrupled! so did his work. He has surrounded himself with talent so that there isn't a weak link in the chain. I have had this conversation with Patrick in person and I told him that I couldn't get more than $2000 for a film and his reply was if you think like that you never will get more. His suggestion was that you are worth more than you are getting and if you can't get in your market look outside your market. Ask Patrick how many weddings he does in TO compared to the people who are willing to fly his company to them and pay on top of that. Also when you charge the higher prices you will start getting a different client calling but be prepared to show them a different type of film. As long as we up our game and continue to evolve our skills and not settle your prices and clients will view them as desirable. Make sure you are qualifying your customers and not trying to close people who clearly don't value your services and are looking for a budget product, let the budget guys have them.

For a $ per hour rate that is amazing, Im sure its crazy hard work but for that pay off...

The work you produce in that short time is of outstanding quality though and Im sure the couples have something they and others enjoy (heck, just look at the view count of some or google stillmotion and see how many people are talking about them). A lot better than many UK videos who give you 3 hours of tosh... Just saw a couple today who gave us a copy of a wedding another videographer did that they dont want us to copy. 2 disks and one is nothing but the reception <eeek!>.

We charge $999 + $350 for projection for our SDEs. It's a tricky situation b/c as many others have said - it really is THE best marketing opportunity for videography since there is so much miseducation out there around what wedding videographers produce. Where else do you have a captive audience ready to learn more about what you do? If you price it too high and the couple doesn't opt for it then you've lost this opportunity.

To give you an example, we did a SDE on Sept 13th and ended up just booking the MOH for her wedding next year for a full film w/ a SDE upgrade. Her fiance said that he knew when he was watching the SDE that he wanted to hire us. They came in and booked a very substantial contract and I asked them at the end of the meeting if they were considering a wedding film before they saw the SDE and they said definitely not. So, had we not done the SDE or held out for more money for the SDE we would never have landed this contract.

We also offer a SDE only package but any clients that come in initially interested in it usually end up getting a full film with a SDE upgrade anyway.

Incidentally, our market has about 300,000 people so you don't necessarily need a city with a huge population to garner more than 1k. If you show clients a well-produced SDE and get them excited about how it works, I'm sure you'll find that they'll think 1k is more than reasonable given the amount of impact it will have at their reception!

Hope that helps!

You make a very good point Bruce. We have been charging $1,500 for SDE add-on including an 8ft fast-fold projection rear projection system. However, I may be reconsidering. My feelings have always been that for all the pressure and stress of a SDE, I want to make it worth it. You're absolutely right about the marketing opportunity it brings. Oddly enough, we have had more success with immediate bookings with our first dance add-on.

We have been very successful at selling a concept video/love story/music video with our clients that is played during the first dance. It's nice because the video is accompanied by the song of their first dance and it gives the guests something to watch while the couple is dancing. Usually they are right in front of the rear projection screen, so it works out great... because lets face it, not very many people are interested (save for the wedding party and immediate family) in standing around watching the b&g dance for an entire song... they usually start chit-chatting halfway through the second verse. It's also nice because it evokes emotion, and turns an otherwise ordinary formality into something more special. PLUS, it's a whole lot less stressful! That's why we push that option more than the SDE. Less stress! High impact! Lot's of people asking for cards at the end of the night! Still think the SDE is more impressive, but it's been a great upsell for us.

Andrew - That's an excellent idea for those who don't want to go the SDE route.

SDEs haven't really caught on in my market. They figure, why would anyone want to watch a video of something they just saw a few hours ago. It's hard trying to explain the wedding day preparations and lead-up... but they concept/love story/music video is an easier sell.

I was a wedding DJ for 5 years before making the switch to wedding videography. The first dance was never anything that special. It was special to the b&g and to the mothers usually. Everyone else saw it as an opportunity to talk about "the game" or catch up on "old times" with the people at their tables. After doing the first one I immediately had something. Everyone was silent, and all eyes where on the b&g who where dancing a waltz in front of an 8ft rear projection screen. In their video it ends on them dancing the very same dance on the beach as the sun is setting... there wasn't too many dry eyes in the place. It was a huge hit. That night we booked a wedding with the upgrade. You can check out the very same video on my site. It's called Molly & Scott's Love Story. Yes, I know it's not a love story in the true sense we are used to. It's more like a music video of them just doing what they do... hiking, doing woodsy stuff, hanging out at the beach, being outdoorsy, but it's effective.

There were some really nice shots in that video Andrew, I noticed one impressive shot were the camera goes up quite high and I saw a similar movement a bit later, how did you achieve such a smooth move with the camera, did you use a crane for that?

yeah.... some of the beach stuff was done on a jib (Kessler Crane) and some was just tripod stuff... ALL the woodsy stuff was done with a knockoff Steadicam made in India vest an arm system... you can really tell on some of the shots, I've long sense upgraded to a legit Steadicam Pilot and it made ALL the difference. You really DO get what you pay for.