quick advice needed: battery for Manhattan monitor
 

I have the Manhattan LCD monitor on order; the manufacturer says it's good for 9-13V; my PAG battery is rated 13.2V - will it be save to power the monitor from it?

li-ion batteries have to kind of label.
the one that gave the nominal voltage and the one that gave the highest (charging) voltage. Both are used for same batteries, so you can find a 7.2V labelled 8.4, but it is the same battery.

the usual range is a multiple of the 3.6 single cell.
so you get 3.6 - 7.2 - 10.8 - 14.4 etc.....
or you can get more rarely a 3.7 reference so it gives different numbers
so you get 3.7 - 7.4 - 11.1 - 14.8 etc....
if they use the charging voltage , it is 4.2V per cell.
so you get 4.2 - 8.4 - 12.6 - 16.8 etc...

to say that a fresh charged 4 cell li-ion battery can peak at around 16V.
to keep in the safe range you should use only a 3 cell battery that could have 12.6 at highest and 10.8 at lowest, so you are always safe.

you can build or buy such battery at Rechargeable Battery Pack Li-ion NIMH NICd Li-Po Battery Charger for any capacity you want.
usually common li-ion cell is around 1800 mA (1.8 Amps) per cell.
it already a lot for small lcd screen that needs usually less than 1000 mA.

13.2V indicate a ni-mh technology. it is not as powerful as li-ion but cost less.
the voltage scheme is slightly different since nimh single cell is 1.2V, so you get more
latitude to build pack with voltage aligned with your need.
13.2V would means a 11 elements cell rated 1.2V, or a 10 (likely) elements cell rated 1.32V.
again one numer is the nominal use (1.2) and the other is the charging voltage (1.32).

I think there is no problem to get 0.2V over the range specified on the screen.
if you want to be on the safe side, you can put a diode in the circuit. Common diode will cause a drop of about .7V so you will never be higher than 13V.
you can use a common rectifier diode supporting the current needed for the screen (or put several diodes in parallel if needed).

Thanks, Giroud.

Giroud,
I just examined my PAG battery; it seems there are 6 cells in it - it wouldn't fit any of your descriptions. What voltage do you suppose they are (13.2 : 6 = 2.2)?

I'm trying to figure out the "worst case scenario", where - when fully charged (or even overcharged), any battery can produce a voltage much higher than the nominal value (which in my case, is just at the acceptable voltage range boundary). How much more do you think it could be right after full charging?

The ManhattanLcd customer support seems quite helpul, but very terse in their answers; that's what they answered to my dilemma:

"13v is ok, 14v not ok".

The Tekkeon MP3450 seems to be popular for powering those LCDs.

Tekkeon - myPower ALL, MP3300/MP3400/MP3450

Tekkeon myPower All Plus, #MP3450 - eXpansys Poland

John

Piotr,

I use Tekkeon 3450 for my ManhattanLCD monitor.

It's juice is enough for almost 3hrs straight, in my experience.

BTW, what are your color mode/brightness/contrast settings with Manhattan LCD? Out of the box, it has a lot of blue tint.

Alex,

Thanks for the advice; John of ManhattanLcd has sourced the 3450 for me.

As to the settings - cannot say anything yet; I'll only be getting mine next week!

You're welcome... make sure to get some strong Velcro or 3M to attach the battery to the back of the monitor (that's what I do, makes for a compact unit...)

Also may I recommend the component cable extender. Very useful when you need to set the lights etc. - allows you to position the monitor where you are, not where the camera is.

http://www.svideo.com/co6.html

I got me a 6ft one, and it works great. In retrospect, given how slim it turned out to be, I'd get a 12ft one instead...

Piotr,

you always find cool gadgets :) I better watch your moves.

Could you please post a photo of this Manhattan LCD once arrives, mounted with your rig - so i can assess how big it is? I might consider buying one if not too large - its price is definitely tempting. Please post your experience with its picture quality, too.

Thanks a bunch in advance,

Zsolt

Will do, Zsolt - I promise!

Btw, have you ordered it from the website or you have a distributor in Poland? (no need to post link :)

possibly you got Li-ion pack with 2x3 cells rated at maximum charging voltage (4.4)

Straight from their website - the guy named John (very helpful) has also sourced for me some additional stuff - apart from the battery and the Manfrotto Apron (a smart "bag" to mount between your tripod legs, where you can hold things like batteries etc.), all the parts for mounting the monitor to the tripod leg.

Yes, John is very helpful and a cool guy.

What did you get to mount the monitor to tripod's leg - this ?

Yes, Alex.

Isn't that kinda wiggly? The Manhattanlcd monitor is 2.5lbs, but since it's larger than the previous monitors, there is more torque to counteract. I used a Delvcam shoe-mount device, but even that is kinda wiggly. Recently, I bought a handle bracket with mounting screw holes. That will move the monitor towards the shoulder. However, it's still quite wiggly. While I can buy a mount with a sturdier base, much of the wiggle seems to be at the monitor's single mount point.

Gints, I also think it's not the best idea to mount the monitor on the same tripod as camera.

When you do so, you won't be able to re-position the monitor without inducing some camera shake.

The way I do it is I just use an off lightstand to host the monitor completely separately from the cam/tripod.

If I'm strapped for space, or otherwise unable to use a separate stand, then I put the monitor on top of cam via the vfgadget adapter.

I still bought that articulated arm though, because I figured it'd be helpful to stabilize the cam when mounted on vehicles (and it is.)

I'm looking at using the monitor on a shoulder mount and/or GlideCam. I'm worried about the wiggle of the monitor, and how that would make the rig unwieldly and likely distracting.

Dont know about Stedicam etc., but shoulder mount will be very tricky.

Monitor is rather large and relatively heavy (especially with the battery mounted on it) at 10.9" screen size. It gives everything extra inertia and weight, which is not necessarily good with handheld/shoulder mount operations.

However, since shoulder-mounted cam's LCD is very close to your eyes, I don't think it's even necessary to have external monitor there. EX1's LCD monitor has fantastic quality and resolution.

When LCD is not so close to your eyes, then of course ManhattanLCD monitor shines and is most useful for both focus and framing.

I'm using the batteries as a counter weight on the backside of the shoulder mount. Perhaps the monitor won't work well in a mobile situation, but right now, the LCD is inadequate for judging focus, even with expanded mode, in my mobile situation. A slightly smaller monitor case with the 10.9" LCD and even slightly less resolution (1280x720 rather than 1366x768) would be that much more reasonable. I'm hoping to use the Sony EX1's LCD for peaking information to assist focus and the HD monitor for actual focus. The viewfinder just doesn't help.

Could you elaborate please?

1- check your battery at full charge with an acurate multimeter.
2- I would not trust a power supply over 12V, as I've read reports of folks frying some boards/screens.
I routinely run mine from a Tekkeon 3450 set at 9.V No problem. I get about 4 hrs like that.
Here's a recent page...
http://www.hv20.com/showpost.php?p=137771&postcount=866

I meant to write thatthe on-camera LCD is inadequate for evaluating focus even at a distance of one foot, which is why we are all interested in the Manhattan HD. I hope I didn't cause you to panic.

No panic here, just trying to see why your results differ from my own experience, which has been positive with manual focus using LCD screen of shoulder-mounted EX1.

My video subjects are people, mostly 4 to 7ft away from lens, and I use the range from wide to tele (ECU of mouths/teeth for dentistry industrials) with very good focus just by using cam's LCD + peaking. (No, I don't have a perfect vision, unfortunately :)

Sure it'd be nice to have a bigger monitor, like maybe 5", but I know I would not be able to use 10.9" one in this situation - too much weight/size. I found ManhattanLCD perfect for mounting on a stand, though, in situations when cam is Not handheld (tripod, car mount) and monitor can be properly/safely mounted.

Have you considered magnifying EX1's LCD monitor with a lens?

Thanks M. Paul; because I wouldn't trust my 13.2V battery as well, I have already gone with the 3450.

I completely agree with Alex; when shooting hand-held (or with my PAG Orbitor shoulder mount), I am not even considering using the 10.9" monitor.

My intended main use is when my camera (possibly with Letus adapter) is on the tripod, as always happens when I shoot classical music performances. I sometimes have an assistant with those gigs, and having the large screen that both of us can use will be great (I hope).

When it proves that it's not stable enough when mounted to the same tripod as the camera+Letus, than a separate stand will resolve the problem.

It will be stable enough mounted on tripod+articulated arm, but you won't be able to turn it around as needed when the camera is rolling, without introducing shake to the tripod and, inevitably, to the camera, while doing so.

If you're mounting on a stand, have you considered some of the smaller 720P LCD TVs ? Some of the 15" Samsungs I saw offer both component and HDMI inputs. If you don't need a battery powered monitor and ultra portability, these LCD TVs are a better buy.

You're right, this thing will shake. I'm gathering the hardware to mount it to the shoulder mount as the camera hot shoe is only a solution for non-mobile work.

Yes, I used Visio with great success, excellent picture over HDMI. In fact I'm now selling it cheap, will put it on eBay on Wed.

(Can't keep it since EX1 does not have HDMI out. I used my Visio with V1U before I sold that cam and bought EX1.)

I'm curious. Why then are you interested in buying one of these HD monitors? For the same money, you can get a 15" solution (Samsung 15") with all input types. Personally, I bought the Manhattan LCD with hopes of using it on a shoulder mount.

Because anything but in-studio applications, anything larger than ManhattanLCD's 10.9" enclosure is just too bulky and heavy to log around, IMHO.

In fact I like using ManhattanLCD even in studio.

Granted, when I can afford a heavy/bulky setup, I use Dell 2405 with Component in. Very easy to focus, gives excellent idea of how the picture will look/feel on larger screens, and color representation is OK too for non-critical viewing. And, you can see it across the small room :)

Well, I'm sure it doesn't have it, but I'll ask anyway. Does the ManhattanLCD have underscan? To me, it's a critical feature to have on a production monitor.

Ok, I'll bite (and keep in mind I see myself as reasonable knowledgeable so this is intriguing to me) - I was under the impression that underscan was absolutely necessary on CRT monitors to show us what is happening outside the bezel (represented by action safe markers) and/or viewable scan lines but as long as we had a 1:1 pixel ratio on an LCD (meaning we can see ALL the active pixels on a one to one basis), the monitor was ESSENTIALLY doing the same thing as underscan (without the "wasted" black space around the smaller underscanned image) in that we are able to see all the pixels. Have I just learned something new? Do LCDs still do a crop that I wasn't aware of?

Thanks for asking the question Eugene.

ManhattanLCD does not show the entire image, unfortunately.

I'm not aware if there's a special mode to force it to do so.

I'm referring to 10.9" one - thanks to M. Paul for the correction. I use its Component input.

Which one? The two controllers, MST & Pixelworks are different.
My 7.2" w/pixelworks shows the whole image if set to do so.
I'll run some screen shots later.
GearNinja.com DIY > Manhattan LCD

10.9" one, which is the only one they supply with enclosure. I use its Component input.

Just got the Manhattan HD monitor and must say there is no hue shift towards blue - the picture is great even with the standard settings.

I also bought the Tekkeon 3450 battery - very nice and well done device.

I only have one problem: when I velcroed the battery to the monitor's back, the Component input picture disappeared! I was horrified, cause I thought the monitor just broke down - but removing the battery cured it. Lack of electro-magnetic shielding, or what?

Do you guys have your Manhattan monitors working with a battery attached?

Alex at al,

Do your monitors react in the same way when a battery is attached to them?

I asked John of ManhattanLCD, but he didn't answer directly - saying something about the correct battery voltage and adapter/plug...

Piotr, no - I have the battery velcroed to the back of the monitor, and no issues.

John can be spotty replying to inquiries, yes... but he did provide great service to me when I needed the monitor badly, and he officially did not ship it yet at that time.

Thanks Alex - no good news for me :(

BTW, are you using 9V or 12V setting with your Tekkeon battery?