Hi Michel,

Thanks for the info, but I bought the 3251/503 combination based on the recommendation from Chris H. several months ago. I don't remember the exact price but seems the two were around $500 from B&H. More money will get a better head, but for what I'm doing, the 503 works fine.

AAAARGH!!

Man Michael, you just stuffed up my week-end. On Friday I just ordered the 8283B/501 kit from B&H for $528! I also bought the 3141 SPRB mid-level spreader for $20 and shipping to Texas was a wopping $29 for a total of $577!

Can anyone tell me the differences between the 501 and 503 heads? I have a 501 and don't like the pans and tilts I get. Of course operator error may have a lot to do with it, but I still need to get good shots.

Will anyone do the old compare and constrast thing like we used to do in school?

Greg Matty

I dont own any so I cant go into much detail, but Chris said in another thread not so long ago that the 503 was a big improvement over the 501.

I'm sure he'll comment here when he's "recovered from NAB", or you could just search for the topic (sorry I can't remember what it was called).

I put my VariZoom on one of the legs. With it on firm footing, it's alright. A two handed affair, but works fine. The balance trick sounds good, but I think the fitting didn't like the width of my original "grip." I shoot pretty long telephoto and sometimes pushing the buttons caused a bit of shake when on the handle.

The main reason for me going with the 501 instead of the 503, other than price, was because the tilt lock is located on the right hand side on the 503. Maybe it's another one of those "what you're comfortable with" situations, but in my experience with professional heads and it's what I am comfortable with, having the tilt lock at my left hand is far more user friendly, especially in the middle of recording say after you've zoomed in with a slight pan and you want to lock the head down. Seems it would be awkward with the lock on the other side, out of sight.

Would love to hear if my assumption, and we all know about that word (lol), is accurate.

I think your assumption is correct if you tend to pan tilt with your right. On my Sachtler all the controls are on the left (except the sled lock) and it's the most comfortable situation.

I use a Libec 50 on T57 sticks - it is a wonderful video tripod by Japan's leading camera mount company. ZotZ sells them for $750 - which is a great - Libec is one of the best!

Anyone know what the Manfrotto 055pro tripod is like. Sales guy recommend I get that (Entry level DV tripod) and it looked pretty cool with the rearrangable tripod stem.

Hello,

Bogen 3221 legs
" 501 head
and
most important Bogen compact leveling head #3502

The leveling head between the 3221 and 501 makes all the difference.

Bruce

Hi Aaron,

<Anyone know what the Manfrotto 055pro tripod is like.>

I've checked my catalogues and can't find anything like a 055. All tripods and heads have an Art. No. in the 3000 range. I don't know if that's just for us here in the States or not. Yes, I know there are exceptions like the 501, etc, but if you know the 3000 number then I could give you my opinion.

Hi Aaron,

those of us non-US based tend to operate with different numbers, the 055Pro = 3021Pro.

My setup and how I got there (most my work is wildlife).

When I bought I had no idea of what I needed in a tripod. The only advice I got was "make sure you get a fluid head and that you can level it". That exactly what I bought. It was a package deal (shop demo unit, sticks and head at a great price).

132X = 3061 Sticks. Weigh in at a hefty 6,9kg.

In use I have found that I like the infinitely variable leg positions which are obtained by the use of the chains. These leg positions allows one to compensate for the camcorder height in the absence of the wind up centre post. When the legs are splayed to give a lower camera height the stability rises incredably. Secondly when shooting in nature the terrain is often uneven, the leg positions cope with that well. The tripod has a built in "leveling ball" to me essential. I have a VW bus which I use in the Kruger, with the first bench seat removed the tripod fits in perfectly, the legs allow me to positon the camcorder exactly at the open winow where I need it. The "levelling ball" allows me to compensate for the changing slopes in the roads. I could not operate without the levelling facility. Weight is not an issue as I rarely need to carrry the sticks far. For me it is GREAT. I was lucky, I knew from nothing but the sticks turned out to be one of the best buys in my video kit.

The only mod I will be doing to my sticks will be to Teflon coat the Aluminium "socket" into which the ball fits to give more freedom of movement. Then I am going to extend the knob that tightens the levelling ball and make this a long shaft. To the bottom of the shaft I will be attaching counterweights. This will in effect become a "steadipod" so no matter the slope the vehicle encounters the camcorder will always be parallel to the ground. One turn of the shaft and it's locked.

136 = 3061 Head. As mentioned it was a package deal. In hindsight would not buy this head, the one feature I still do like is the little spirit level that allows one to ensure the head is level and will pan correctly in the horizontal. Nothing stops one adding a spirit level. It is not a terrible head but I think I could have done better and will probably upgrade to a 503. There a fluid heads and then there are fluid heads.

Guess what I am telling you is that your requirement like the rest of us will be personal and specific. Understand the conditions under which you will be using the tripod and head then make sure your selection fits that requirement.


Good luck mate
Andrew

PS: I can't remember if you mentioned what type of videography you will be doing but perhaps that could narrow the choices.

Guy Pringle wrote:

"The main reason for me going with the 501 instead of the 503, other than price, was because the tilt lock is located on the right hand side on the 503"

This bothered me at first as well, but then I realised that the tension control is on the left - where it should be. When shooting, I release the tilt lock, and use the tension nob to lock or unlock the tilt, which is apparantly how it should be done.

I have just bought an XL1S (to add to my XL1) and purchased the bogen 3182 with a 505 head. Whith the correct springs loaded, this combo feels like heaven. (about $1100 for the kit with bag and mid-level spreader)

Hi Andrew, thanks for the advice. I thought the 055pro did have infinately variable leg positions...In fact I'd have thought all tripods would have...guess not. I'll look into it a bit more but since I will be doing outside shooting as well I will definately want a tripod where I can adjust the leges idependently so I can get the tripod level and a levelling bubble.

What is this "ball" I hear people talking about with regard to tripods? I think I might have seen one on another tripod in a shop, it was a mounting plate with a ball attached to the head. I assume this is so you can get an extra 2 degrees of freedom with the camera right? (Roll?)

Hi,

There are two types of balls referred to with tripods. Ball heads, are a type of type of 35mm camera head that is used in place the more traditional 3 way heads. The top of the ball head usually has a quick release adapter that allows for the mounting of the camera and lens combination.

The type of ball referred to with video or cine tripods is a ball mount. The bottom of the camera head is a sort of half dome or ball. This fits into a cup or socketon the top of the tripod legs. This arrangement works like a ball and socket joint. The ball fastens to the tripod with a large screw and threaded fastner arrangement. These are some sites to better explain it. I guess a picture is worth a 1000 words about now.

http://www.vinten.com/intro.asp
http://www.bogenphoto.com/
http://www.sachtler.com/

The long and short of it is that the ball allows you to quickly level your fluid head for pans.

Jeff

smooth tripod action
 

I'm an amateur at the videography thing, and I have trouble with smooth panning and tilting and such. I can smoothly pan or tilt while moving, but when going to or from a still position, the transition is usually kinda jerky. The only way I can make it smooth is to loosen the pan and tilt friction as loose as it'll go, which makes it hard to keep the tripod completely steady when it's still. Any advice? I'm using a Canon XL1s and a cheap tripod rig. . .bogen 3160 head and some kind of light body. . .don't remember the model number. I realize this might be part of the problem, as the whole thing is so light. Still, any advice?

I had a Bogen 3126 head, and had similar problems. It is advertised as "fluid", but is really just some grease. After moving up to a 503, my troubles disappeared. Some like the 501, as well. Unless you are willing to spend the big bucks for the Millers, etc., the 503 is priced competitively and works well.

Jerky starts and stops are the hallmarks of inexpensive heads or heads not designed for video or for your camera's mass. As Vic noted, the Bogen/Manfrotto 503 head is highly regarded by many XL1 owners and is moderately priced. The 503, in particular, was designed with the XL1's load in mind, although it will take smaller loads.

My personal favorite is the Miller DS-10.

above
 

Really? I'm pretty sure it's me and not the head. . .I mean, are you saying that with a better head I'd be able to keep steady, even when the tilt and pan locks are at their loosest? That's pretty much the problem. . .or finding someway to unlock them without the camera jittering.

Well, Slash, I certainly can't say that anyone wouldn't benefit from practice <g>. But, indeed, top-notch fluid heads matched with appropriate load masses will make pans and tilts silky smooth and consistent even when subjected to a wide range of temperatures. Of no small significance for XL1/s shooters (due to it's eccentric center of gravity and variable mass) is a good quality head's quick-release sled (or bottom plate) which enables you to perfectly balance the camera's mass on the head and adjust the balance as you change the load characteristics (i.e. change lenses, add lcd monitor, connect xlr cables, et.al.).

When I first embarked on video I was skeptical of the value of a first-rate tripod and head. How, I wondered, could such a rig really be worth $1,500-$2,000+? It seemed absurd until I did some research and, most importantly, tried some high-end rigs. There's more engineering involved in a good head than meets the eye.

Certainly, I don't advocate that anyone spend more on a mount than they can afford or justify for their practical needs. But I -do- recommend that you consider (a) that buying 1 very good rig is probably going to be less expensive than buying a succession of replacements over time, and (b) a good rig will most likely long outlive your current camera.

Happy hunting.

With my 503, I can let go of the camera and it stays put. When I start a pan, it's smooth. You can keep the friction fairly snug--there is no need to operate with everything too loose. That's what you get with the better heads, and especially when you jump into the big boys like the Miller and some others. The Manfrotto 503 is a good compromise.

(After posting, I noticed Ken had also responded to your last -- I agree with all that he says--he also uses bigger words than I do!)

Cheers

above
 

Well, I bow before before you all with my hands together in deference. I shall research this "503 head" you speak of.

above
 

Well, it seems the head you've suggested is listed at 243 dollars online. That sounds okay. Now, the question is, should I buy another body as well? I still don't know the name of mine. It's very light, has no spreader (or way of attaching one), and I think the guy told me it's the cheapest one you can change the head on. It says 3001n on the side. . .if that means anything. A manfrotto/bogen body. I saw an 800 dollar body head combo with a ball on it. A lady I know, however, got a nice one (in my opinion for 500 with ball, level bubble thingy, spreader, and a solid head (maybe 503)

To avoid confusion while you're shopping or asking questions, the tripod is generally called the "legs" or, err, the "tripod"<g> not a "body".

But "level bubble thingy" is the correct technical term, I believe. No problems there. ;)

above
 

Very well, I'll study upon on my video gear terms, since that seems to be the most important part of being in the business. Now, is the 503 head compatible with the "legs" that I have. . .or do I need a whole new rig?

...usually called out as an LBT in manufacturers' literature.

"LBT"...LOL

I thought you're supposed to use big words, Ken...not acronyms.

Slash...it's hard to say without knowing exactly what model you have now. When you say "lightweight", you might be referring to the same legs I use. You can get by with some of the inexpensive lightweight Bogen/Manfrotto legs...I know because I do. But...I definitely have my eyes on a Miller for a future purchase.

My advice is make your purchase match your budget...and go to a dealer and test several models out to see which feels more stable, which has a spreader and what type of spreader...etc. You won't find a lower end tripod that feels as good as a pricey Miller or other high-end models...so just get whatever feels most comfortable that's within your price range.

Hi Slash,

I was looking through my Manfrotto catalogue and the only tripod that came close to your 3001n was the 3001, the 3001s which is the short version and the 3001lc which has a slightly longer centre column. These are suggested for 35mm (still) camera usage. The 3160 head looks a little on the lightweight side.

As the other boffins have mentioned, an upgrade to a Bogen video kit would make a lot of difference. If you can afford a Miller or Vinten or Sachtler or the likes, definetly go for it.

I got the Bogen 3283B-501 kit because price was an issue and I preferred the pan lock to be on the left hand side. Having worked for many years with top end sticks and heads, I'm not blown away by the 501, but for the price it still gives a solid ride. I wouldn't settle for anything less than the 501, obviously if you can afford better models, go for it.

You should definetly get a bowl system, easy, fast and accurate leveling. You don't need to muck around with the legs to get level.

As for tripods, I prefer the two stage, three sectioned, spiked feet style such as the 3283 as appossed to the tubular style.

As an added thought, I've also heard you should make sure the Image stabilizer switch on your lens should be switched off when operating from a tripod. I've done a little preliminary test with it, but haven't seen the bad effect yet. Just something to consider.

above
 

There is definitely a 3001n set of legsj, according to yahooshopping. Looks like what I have. Anyway as for budget, I work part time as a master controller, so you figure it out. My microphone case is a wahwah pedal bag lined with stapled-in egg crate.

"Boffin"...I like that! ;)

Slash, just to give you a bit more of a point in the right direction. My tripod is a Manfrotto 501 head with 455 legs (one of the 3000 series in the U.S.). I've gotten by just fine with it, although it has been a bit sticky at times. And I did have trouble with it slipping out of a locked position once when I had to point my XL-1 down at a steep angle. It just couldn't hold the weight. But I do like it because it's compact and lightweight.

But before making a decision, I'd search the threads here to find some past threads about the importance of spreaders (Ken and Chris mention them, I know) and also have mentioned their preferences between ground and mid-point spreaders.

Chris also has advocated having two handles (you can add a second handle to most any model)...search for those messages. I'd have to agree. I know I'd have more stability with another handle...just haven't been able to scrounge one up in Korea. Maybe I'll have better luck in Japan.

One more thing, I remember Chris mentioning a particular set of legs that open easily... and if memory serves me correctly, he's referring to a Bogen setup.

See if you can find those posts...they'll give you a bit more insight.

Incidentally, sounds like Africats and I have similar pods...but I tend to like the tubular legs. Easy on the shoulder.

Good luck.

I have the Bogen automatic tripod, the model is 3251. The cool thing about it are these levers under the head that extend and retract the legs (using gravity). It makes for fast set-ups and break-downs. It's a big, heavy son of a gun and I wouldn't want to have to carry it very far, but it is quite stable. I have a 503 head with two pan handles on it. It comes with a mid-level spreader. Heavy and a little clunky but as I said it's pretty stable.

above
 

And how much, pray tell, did you good people pay for your rigs? Me, I got away for $150 or so, head and legs.

You beat me...by about half.

I paid $520 from B&H, that includes 3283B tripod, 501 head, 75mm ball leveler, ground spreader, bag and an extra mid-level spreader and includes S&H. I've read elsewhere that others have paid less for the same set-up.

above
 

I've seen a 501 head based rig for around 500. . .and a 503 head based rig for around 800. What's the real difference between these two? Why do I not feel at one with my tripod?

You don't want to know how much I paid for my tripod. It was almost as much as the XL1. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

3283 legs
Sachtler DV8 head
Floor spreaders
Mid level spreaders

With the extra weight of the mini35 system it's a damn good set up. But you need the extra weight to really use this set up.

Justin did it the right way. Of course, you'd *want* an expensive set of sticks under that rig of his. I think $2,000 would be a good budget for an XL1 tripod. I couldn't afford that, however. My Bogen 503 head and 3251 sticks came to... I think... between $500 and $600 or so. I'd have to dig out the receipt. It's only a temporary thing... I'd rather have a $2,000 Miller.

My Miller DS-10 ran around $1,600.

I got the 3283's for cheap, Chris. I couldn't beat the deal. ;)

They haven't failed me and the head does most of the work anyway.

I went with the Sachtler DV8 over the Miller DS-10 because I like Sachtler's 5 drag settings and their overall system.