EX1 Tripod selection

[Chris Soucy]

Hmm, my first suggestion is to ask the mods nicely if they'll move this thread, lock stock and barrel, over to the "Support Your Local Camera" forum, where it will get significantly more attention from the support officionado's.

Now, as to your dilemma.

I have been fortunate enough to have been the less than proud owner of a rubbish set of sticks & head, a Man....... (shhh, no names, no pack drill).

[I do stress that they were perfectly suited to my previous shooting arrangement with a Canon XL1s. It was the move to HD that threw the monkey wrench into the spokes].

I then upgraded the head to a Vinten Vision 3, at the same time as coming into possesion of a set of Man..... (shhh, etc) 528XB's for my jib.

What rapidly became obvious was that the V3 mounted on my original Man.... ( ) sticks was hardly any better than the original Man... () head, as the sticks had developed terminal Parkinsons desease as far as HD went.

Further investigations showed that both heads on the Man...() 528XB's were light years better, tho' with such a solid set of sticks under them, the Vinten could really stretch it's legs and streak miles ahead of the Man...() head.

It did not take long however before the limitations of the 528XB for run n' gun video work became glaringly obvious, hardly being able to lift the combination being only one of the numerous problems.

The total incompatabilty of the V3 head with the Man...() receiver design being the biggest other.

Hence my move to the Vinten sticks I suggested to you in my first post.

Now, having gone all 'round the houses, what would I suggest for you?

My lesson from the above is that even a crappy head can be improved out of sight by being parked on a decent, rigid set of sticks.

My personal belief is that a set of sticks alone to do justice to HD cannot be had for less than 2, more likely $3 plus grand.

Any combination of sticks and head that tries to come in under that $3+ grand figure must be a very, very serious compromise.

OK, so.............

Do you compromise all round and have a underperforming head on ditto sticks?

(Funny, you've already got that, average everything).

Compromise on the head and get the decent sticks?

(At least you'll never have to buy another set of sticks).

Compromise on the sticks and get a decent head?

(You're probably looking at 3 grand+ for a suitable head and it's going to perform like a piece of shite on those dodgy sticks, not that a 100mm ball head will fit onto the 75mm bowl 525's anyway).

For my money (stand by for sheer heresey, guys.........) ditch your current sticks and get a decent set of Vinten/ Sachtler/ [enter famous support manufacturer here]/ NOT Miller Solo's under any circumstances/ NOR Man...() anything.

Keep your current head (did I just say that? Ohmygawd, where's the soap.....) and just accept it's bad now, it will be a heap better with the new sticks and when, down the track you can afford it, it will be sheer magic with a new head.

Of course I do realise you ain't me, so will see the situation through different coloured spectacles.

BUT, that's what I'd do given what I know.


CS

PS: Wow, the mods are on the ball today!

PPS: I do realise I haven't actually answered your precise question, and also realise that with your quoted budget, the above may not be possible (at this time).

I threw it out there to give you some thought provocation.

You have, indeed, spec'd one heck of a camera system however, and it really does seem criminal to have it sitting on anything but the absolute best (and this IS NOT a "big boys toys" thing).

To achieve my suggested aims, it may actually be worthwhile delaying any purchase untill you can get the sticks, at least.

[Shaun Roemich]

Piotr: I'm not sure what the situation is where you are but you may be better served by renting a heavy duty tripod until you can afford your dream system UNLESS you are out using the entire monster rig several times a month. Renting a Sachtler Video 25 tripod here is probably $50 a day with a purchase price of somewhere close to $10k. That means that I can rent the tripod 200 times before it became cheaper to own it. Not sure if you HAVE access to a rental house like I do, though.

Chris is right: skimping on a tripod system is a losing proposition. Even in my previous post where I stated I was thrilled with my Manfrotto systems, the caveat there was "at the price". I NEED a heavier tripod soon as I start hanging more and more "toys" on my camera. I'll rent as required and save my pennies, nickels and dimes until I can afford my Sachtler in good conscience.

[Craig Seeman]

I'm using a Sachtler FSB6 head with the CF (carbon fiber) QuickLock legs (it's called something like that) with my EX1. I think it was around $1800. The FSB6 is a very nice head compared to anything Bogen I've seen and tested. You could move up to a DV6 head for a bit more control.

I can't imagine spending anything less on a tripod for the camera.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Piotr: I'm not sure what the situation is where you are but you may be better served by renting a heavy duty tripod until you can afford your dream system UNLESS you are out using the entire monster rig several times a month. Renting a Sachtler Video 25 tripod here is probably $50 a day with a purchase price of somewhere close to $10k. That means that I can rent the tripod 200 times before it became cheaper to own it. Not sure if you HAVE access to a rental house like I do, though.

Chris is right: skimping on a tripod system is a losing proposition. Even in my previous post where I stated I was thrilled with my Manfrotto systems, the caveat there was "at the price". I NEED a heavier tripod soon as I start hanging more and more "toys" on my camera. I'll rent as required and save my pennies, nickels and dimes until I can afford my Sachtler in good conscience.

Shaun,

Very good suggestion, indeed - at least, looking at the rates you provide. However, where I live it's not possible to rent a high-class tripod whenever you want it, for the money you mention. I need to have my own, and - unless I find some real bargain - it's gotta be the Manfrotto's top-of-the-line, 526 system.

While I fully agree that Sachtler or Vinten do make better systems indeed, I personally think it's a little biased thinking what Chris is preaching... I mean, the Man (,,,) 526 head on their heavy-duty legs - even though inferior to any $6,000 Vinten or Sachtler - by no means can be regarded a "piece of shit supporting a Rolls-Royce", as Chris chooses to put it.

Chris, I can assure you that even with my 503 head, I can get totally acceptable, fluid pans and tilts from my fully-blown camera system - and I'm watching it on a 50" HDTV plasma at some 1.5m distance, not on a mobile phone :)

[Chris Soucy]

Piotr,

Touched and honoured as I am to be quoted, I would rather you quoted what I actually wrote, rather than what you "think" I said.

I do not recall at any point making any disparageing remarks about YOUR current or proposed support system in any post, if you accept that my comments about both being somewhat under specified for the camera system it/ they are supporting, to be fair.

I also made no specific reference to the Man...() 526 head at any point.

[In case there is some confusion here, I was referring to the Manfrotto 528 (that's eight) XB heavy duty tripod legs in my previous post, not the 526 head, neither of which I rubbished]

My use of the term "shite" was, if you would care to re - read my previous post, in reference to the inability of even the best head on the planet to perform it's job adequately if mounted on a set of inferior sticks.

If you were unhappy with the operation of your existing 503 head, you would have said so -you did not, a fact which I pointed out.

This was the reason I made the suggestion I did in my previous post - keep the head and improve the legs in the short term.

I appologise if anything I have written has given offence. I have gone back over my posts with a fine toothed comb and can find nothing that to my mind would give rise to such a reaction, but then, maybe I'm biased.

Enjoy your new support system.


CS

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

I appologise if anything I have written has given offence. I have gone back over my posts with a fine toothed comb and can find nothing that to my mind would give rise to such a reaction, but then, maybe I'm biased.

Enjoy your new support system.


CS

Thanks Chris. And no, absolutely NOTHING in your posts has ever given me any offence whatsoever - you see, I'm 54 and cannot too easily be offended :)

Besides, I totally agree with most of your points, but I have a family to support so some $6,000 for a tripod is out of question in any foreseeable future for me.

Given that I'm using my camera in the full-blown configuration perhaps some 33% of the time, the 526 head which I can afford on the 350 legs are totally adequate for me at that time. I did a commercial DVD recently (3 events, 3 camera live music performance shot), where my camera was the "leading" one, and filmed the performer at its furthest zoom most of the time; yet my pictures are rock-stable. And that was on the 503/525!

The only other solution I might consider would be to leave it as it is (perhaps borrowing a good tripod system for those opportunities where I'm going to use my Letus), and save for a better system to only buy it within some year's time - in which case your thoughts have been really helpful; I'd certainly be looking at Vinten or Sachtler then:)

[Chris Soucy]

Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Huh, 54 eh?

Try 56, now that's BAD!

How come a dumb Polack gets to write better English than most of the other posters here on DVinfo, that's what I wanna know?

[Now, if that doesn't get me in a sh*t load of trouble, nothing will, but I mean it, your English is even better than mine fercryingoutloud. Must be a nefarious Communist plot to take over the world, er, DVinfo, er, WallMart.]

Editors Note:

The above contributor was physically removed from his keyboard and confined to a secure facility untill such time as he is deemed fit to rejoin human society, or DVinfo, whichever comes first.

Could be some time, maybe untill tomorrow.


CS


PS: Live long and prosper, in the interim keep the bastards honest.


PPS: If you have any idea what the above is about, apart from a post depression high, do let me know, I'm totally stuffed if I have a clue.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Chris Soucy

PPS: If you have any idea what the above is about, apart from a post depression high, do let me know, I'm totally stuffed if I have a clue.

Not to worry, Chris - post-depression highs manifest quite differently: one is likely to pay uncritical compliments to himself, and not to anyone else :)

[Chris Soucy]

very cool.

I rest my case.


CS

[Paul Chiu]

Got my PMW-EX1 before the summer and 2 Sachtler heads and 1 Sachtler system since.
The Sachtler heads are very easy to setup, works well under cold weather, and tough to screw up with.

The larger Sachtler legs are kind of real heavy, so i use my DV8 head with a large Gitzo carbon fiber legs.

check out the photos here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/894484-post1.html

Since the above pixs, i have used the DV8 with additional mikes of assorted makers, the Zylight 90 on the hotshoe, various battery packs, and even the Letus.
At no time did the DV8 failed to properly counterbalance the weight or whatever weird setup rests on top.

paul

[Bob Kerner]

I don't want to hijack the other thread, and I don't have a rig as complicated as Piotr's so I started another thread.

Looking for sticks and head for EX-1. Basic set-up: camera with light, microphone. Someday may get 35mm adapter so it would be nice if tripod had a little latitude to add extra weight. I'm 6ft two. Would like to stay in the $1500 range.

I looked at the Sachtler packages and don't understand what differentiates one from another.

Look at this: sachtler: Stativsysteme

and then this:sachtler: Stativsysteme

Two different packages, same components (head, stix and spreader) yet the min and max heights are different. How can that be??

What makes an MD set of stix different from 2MD? Is is the number of sections? Website isn't at all clear about this?

Any known issues with these legs?

Any reason to go up to the DV6 head and legs, which would bring payload to 20lbs at a cost of another $300 for the basic camera (which I think is only 7 lbs)

Also, for EX-1 owners: Which is the preferred plate: Snap & Go or Touch & Go? I seem to recall reading somewhere that one of the plate systems didn't allow for proper positioning under the camera.

Thanks

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Paul,

My problem is I own the rails rigs from Redrock Micro, which use the Manfrotto 357PL plate (55mm wide).

Can you advise if such a plate adapter can be screwed to the Sachtler DV8 SB "Touch & Go" type of QR plate, and the whole rig will still rest sturdy on the Sachtler head/tripod?

[Paul Chiu]

piotr,

please have a visual look here:

Sachtler*>*Camera plates

if this does not help, let me know and i'll call my sachtler contact.

paul

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

Paul,

My problem is I own the rails rigs from Redrock Micro, which use the Manfrotto 357PL plate (55mm wide).

Can you advise if such a plate adapter can be screwed to the Sahtle DV8 SB "Touch & Go" type of QR plate, and the whole rig will still rest strudy on the Sachtler head/tripod?

[Bob Hart]

Being of a cheap disposition and basically unmoneyed, (as mean as cat s--- and about as half as pretty may be a close description), my solution was a little different.

Provided you can abide the tripod being a little heavier, there are some good older black wider Miller heads out there in on-line auctions on timber or black alloy sticks which are near to rock steady.

Good ones are the doubly side supported styles like the LPT which has an external disk lock and single side tilt friction screw. The similar older non-locking heads with the two friction screws for tilts in back of the head also work well. The friction thumbscrews will have likely had a decent clout and become bent and need replacing.

The EX1 is so light that I use the bent friction screws backed off completely and there is still heavy drag when chasing aircraft in flight.

The smaller heads with a single side support for the mounting plate can still be okay but these can have become a little unsteady on the pan movement.

Some of these older Millers may have been neglected, extruded their friction lube and become surface galled and may bind unless the friction is left backed off.

Mounting the EX1 to these can be achieved by buying in cinecity's jumbo mattebox for JVC GY-HD100. One form of this kit includes a baseplate mount with screw for the JVC which fits EX1 and a support bracket for the rods.

This support bracket fastens to the face of the baseplate via two allen screws. This also has a row of tripod screwholes in it of both sizes. This will fit on the Miller LPT's larger floating baseplate screw and lever.

The downside of this is that you have to frig around doing up and undoing the Miller Thumbscrew/Lever fitting unless you add a wedgeplate which of course takes back to square one.

The tripod screw hole on the EX1, like most of Sony's prosumer cams is not deep enough for a standard small tripod screw.

You will likely need to cut a 1mm spacer to place under the camera for all tripods or wedgeplates or file down the end of the tripod screw about a millemetre so that it does not bottom down in the hole before tightening onto the fitment. If you are cheap, a folded piece of Weeties packet or a piece of truck inner tube is fine.

The black aluminium extending legs of the time used a single larger t-screw for lockoff. The system is basically an old style girling brake actuator which uses a chrome ball under the threaded end of the t-screw for a wedgecam and two tapered followers which bear against the tripod legs.

The ball is often missing so if you end up with a sliding leg which won't lock off, you local cycle shop should be able to find you a bearing ball which will do the job.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Paul Chiu wrote:

"if this does not help, let me know and i'll call my sachtler contact."

Paul, if you please checked this for me, I'd be grateful. The reason of my doubts is that the Sachtler's "Touch and Go" QR plates look sort of recessed in relation to the upper head surface; I'm not sure whether - if I attach my Manfrotto 357PLV adapter- they will attach and detach without problems.

And BTW, I'm thinking of Sachtler (and not Vinten, which is the second on my wish-list), because of DV 8 claims of perfectly supporting/counterbalancing anything in the 1-12 kg range. This is my case, as the bare camera is just 2.5kg while to fully-blown rig - just above 10kg... On the other hand, Vinten Vision 8 specs are 5.5 - 14 kg. Will there be a real-life difference between the two with just the naked camera?

Speaking of Sachtler DV 8, there are two version s- with the 75mm and 100mm half-bowls; what is the difference in practical terms (I mean, the DV 8/100 is more expensive, and uses more expensive 100mm tripods; how are they better than the 75mm versions)?