re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

From the sounds of it, "a lot" is more "somethings" about film making, the questions you're asking are basic stuff that you should be aware of, especially since there are now so many books on most aspects of film making.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well it's just that before when being told I have done the basics wrong, I want to know every variable of the basics too, if that will help.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You can't expect people on the forum to go through every variable in film making in infinite detail. .

On Amazon there's 75 pages of books listed as being about film directing, that's where you should be looking. A forum can't go through all the details involved in the subject, especially since there can be more than one answer.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay sure, it's just from the books I have read, I feel details are left out so far, which is why I want to ask about such details, if the books do not address all the hidden catches either.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Each book fills in holes, and they will often contradict. I started out with lighting, and learned a huge amount from one author, who later I got to know quite well, and he was amazed I'd used what he called his ramblings, as the foundation. He'd never meant what he said to be taken as the 'method', just how he did it. I suspect you have not read enough versions of how its done.

How we got here from star filters, I'll never know. I actually bought one back in the 80s - never used it after the first day!

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

The difficulty is that you don't seem to be able to take on board the information you're being given.Your questions just keep repeating themselves and you end up going around in circles.

You need to read quite a few books in order to get an overall pattern. There are probably books to cover nearly every job on a feature film set.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Sounds like you’re trying to over plan to avoid mistakes you made in the past. Storyboarding them out isn’t the answer. When you do free movies and don’t have the funds, staff or the experience, cut corners and use unorthodox methods you’re going to get unprofessional results. Maybe all you need is a short reminder list you bring with you on set, much like a speaker doesn’t read his speech word for word he has an outline that he glances at. Film making is collaborative effort between a team of people.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Ok thanks. are you saying cutting corners, isn't the answer then and that can yield bad results?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You seem surprised that this could cause you problems?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well it's just as far as unorthodox methods go, I was told before I need to think outside the box more. Doesn't thinking outside the box, mean having to do unorthodox things?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I suspect that this refers to the content, not copy and pasting from other films, but having your own vision or voice and putting that into your films.

Nor does it apply to being able to apply the 180 degree rule and knowing how or when to break it for dramatic purpose. This isn't thinking "out of the box" it's still in the area of basic grammar.

If you try the unorthodox, you must always question if it's working, if it's not for other people, you must be prepared to make changes at the editing stage and try to understand why it's not working. Often you need to work it out from first principles, it can just come down to elements not having been set up properly in the script, so that pay off don't work.

Watch "Back to the Future" for the set ups being prepared in the early scenes and then being paid off through out the film. If you didn't have them, the film wouldn't make much sense.The secret is hiding them, so that the audience don't know they're set ups.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, well I thought about the idea of not blocking in the storyboards and tried it out. However, if you do not do any blocking in them, then how do you know where the actors are suppose to be in the storyboard?

Are storyboards just suppose to indicate the general type of shot angle, and that's it?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

"Are storyboards just suppose to indicate the general type of shot angle, and that's it? "

Thar's the purpose, so that others can visualize what the shots look like. It's just part of planning a scene, You'll see where the actor are at one point in the scene, but it won't reveal all the complex dance moves that they may be doing in that shot.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay thanks, as long as the continuity isn't so drastic such as moving over to a window or something, which may cause the other shots to have to changed. But maybe that is okay too. I can use the storyboards like that then, to just give an idea, rather than all the blocking, as long as continuity can still match later.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You still sem to be stuck at the basics, rather than progressing. Ideally you should plan for a window shot, since there may be lighting issues for the DP,

However, that's not to say that if the actors come up with an emotionally powerful moment at the window that's way better than the one you planned for, it would be a foolish director who wouldn't have a conversation with the DP about the possibility of using the window. You always need to keep an eye out for improving a scene.

There can be a difference between the scene as blocked out in your mind and the reality on the day with the actors.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

When you watch the youtube continuity error clips, it's things like people vanishing, then reappearing, or props moving around. The actor movement stuff should be so obvious that everyone in the scene would say - hang on, shouldn't I be here? Actors are very good at remembering things that impact on their performance and they remember nothing about trivia on set. An extra in the background would not be noticed, but the people in the scene interacting certainly would set themselves up in perfect positions for a retake, even if the next day. They might forget the object was in their left hand, not the right - that kind of error, but they'll know if they were not standing somewhere. Story boards are not designed for that kind of info.

You are trying to process every bit of information into slots or rules. If THIS happens, then do THIS and it doesn't work.

You really need to get a grip on this or progression is impossible. I know you feel the need to plan, but it's clearly becoming a serious barrier to your productiveness, and frankly - we're not making a dent on your understanding. It's so frustrating - we want you to get it, but you say the most peculiar things, or create totally different meanings. Maybe you are trying to be too advanced for your existing capabilities, because you're not learning - that is so clear.
What do you mean by unorthodox? I suspect to us, it does indeed mean doing unorthodox things, as in unplanned, uncertain of success, or just simply crazy things - but we would do them with the underpinning knowledge that while maybe new and perhaps a bit radical, it could actually work. I've done unorthodox things continually for weeks on my present job, and most, not all have been successful - despite raised eyebrows from some others, but when the thing works, everyone smiles, and mentally adds it to their arsenal of problem solving for future use. It means taking a risk, carrying the can if it goes badly wrong, and convincing people it's worth a try.

You're presumably extremely uncomfortable about doing unplanned, unforeseen things - and perhaps don't have enough experience yet to turn a 50/50 into a 75/25 on the likely success front, but at some point you have to start taking chances and create your own new rules. You then need to be equally willing to scrap the rule when next time it doesn't work.

Now could also perhaps be the time to have a good think about any career plans in this industry. Being very honest Ryan, I'm forming the opinion that no matter how hard you try to process information, it's failing.

You can't find a niche where your talents work naturally. Everything is a constant struggle for comprehension. In the education world, the word 'understanding' is often a word that's kind of banned, because testing it is so hard and unreliable. You have the vocabulary, you have piles of information but I get the impression it's just unprocessed - hence your usual confusion and misinterpretation of everyones input. How many times does someone say something and your response is "so what you are saying ..." and it isn't!

There's a very small number of regular correspondents in your topics - have you noticed? Many people have given up, and skip reading them now it seems because there is never any progress.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh sorry, I don't mean to come up with different meanings to it. It's just when things are explained to me, there are catches in it that do not add up, and I feel like I need to ask about those catches then, that's all.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be frustrating, I just want to do better and understand it all. Thanks for being so patient and explaining things, everyone!

I can try not to plan out blocking ahead of time, it just feels risky and disorganized to me, where something can go wrong if not addressed in advance. That's all. Just seems more risky...

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Planning is good when based on solid information. Planning for things that WILL, not might, change is pointless, wastes your time and ties your hands. There will always be the risk you won't change for the unknown, but perhaps better, in favour of your carefully planned and possibly less good product. Plan the fight, or fight the plan?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

No one is saying not to block ahead of time and be prepared with a plan, just that you should also be open to what happens with the actors on the set or during rehearsals. This becomes more important on low budget films, where you don't have the resources or pool of talent to pin everything down, so you need to make changes on the fly.

Again, a book like "The Director's Journey" by Mark W Travis may assist. I gather it's hard to get, but you may get used copies on Amazon. It can go into more detail than forum messages, but it will allow you too work things out for yourself.

Since you have problems with actors, "Directing Actors" by Judith Weston could be worth checking out.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It’s odd that you didn’t know how to do such a fundamental thing such as proper blocking, considering being a filmmaker is your sole purpose in life and the number of years you’ve been at it. I don’t know if this comes from a lack of understanding or bad practices you’ve grown accustomed to making amateur films. It’s great you have so much drive to pursue your dreams it’s just concerning you need a 24/7 support team trying to fight a seemingly endless struggle helping you with every aspect of cinema.

Planning is useful but it shouldn’t be used as a means to avoid interactions on set, making adjustments and carrying out the normal duties of a director.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

These posts are beneficial in other ways - Brian and I had never met until last week - when we got together here during the current production - I'm grateful to Ryan for making this possible!

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks, I read the Directing Actors book and have that one. I will get The Director's Journey next. Thanks. I watched some of his online advice, and Mark W. Travis is really good.

When you say that things can happen with the actors onset that are unplanned, do you mean that the actors would be more comfortable doing different things in the blocking?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

No, they react to the siltation or the location or other actors and come up with something you haven't thought of, it could be any aspect of the scene, but it adds something to the scene. You will find aspects of that in "Directing Actors"; it goes into more detail and depth than is possible in a forum .

Yes, I was shown around the panto stage by Paul in our Victorian theatre. Someone reminded me that they reduced the rake on the stage because it was causing problems for the ballet dancers.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks. I have that book and will read it again. I will also see if I can order the other one. Thanks.

And I can be open to changing blocking, I just have to make sure I don't make any mistakes if I do any deviation. I've also had it where actors come up with things I haven't thought of, and I liked it better or at least thought it was better at the time.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Any changes come down to your judgment as the director, there are no rules as to how you decide other than it fits with the character in their current situation within the story. If you can't judge these things, I would either give up trying to be a director or work on developing your shills in this area.

However, be prepared to make mistakes, since you won't get better unless you're willing to risk being wrong on occasions. That's part of the creative process, it's what you do with mistakes that's important.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

ryan why dont you just make some simple shorts that take one or two days to shoot in available locations with actors and crew who will work for free (even if the actors are terrible you can work on the technical stuff and theres always someone out theres always someone out there willing to work for free) or small fees? Then youre not spending money and you can try out aaaaaallllllll these methods and ideas youre asking about exhaustively. Then there’s nothing at stake and you have nothing to lose. Hell it doesnt even have to be a complete story, could just be a scene, to see if a certain technique works.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Sure I can do that. It's just before, I was told that I should hire good actors and a good DP cause the ones willing to work for free are probably not as good, hence why I was told I need a better DP and actors.

There is one script I have that is 15 pages, all in location, I have been trying to get a location for. But I haven't been able to find a location owner that is okay for an entire 15 pages shot there, since that would take more than day. I can keep looking.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

yeah for big projects or things youre trying to promote yourself with you want good people. For just farting around and experimenting and testing ideas the standard could be much lower. also 15 mins is pretty long, to me. I was thinking five minutes tops. remember these are for your own peace mind and answering your myriad questions.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Just dropped in to make a comment about using a star filter but the star filter thread has moved on so is apparently OBE. Comments have been made before about threads that morph in lieu of starting a new one.

However ...
With regard to Josh's idea about doing a short video, "... make some simple shots ...", this is a very good idea. A great opportunity to work on ideas and the technical aspects. Excellent idea. There has got to be some people in your area that would want a short movie made. Documentary? Heck, even some commercials for starters. Anything that can put to use some of the skills that are needed so one can feel more comfortable with varying conditions.

How long is it until this big movie shoot gets started?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay. Well I wanted to take a script I had before and just direct one or two scenes as a test. Some scenes are only 2-4 pages, and wanted to try one of those. But I wasn't able to attract to want to do it. They just said that they are only scenes, and not a whole story, and were not interested in doing just one scene only it seems.

As for documentary short, the one I shot before a few weeks ago, I am currently editing.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

There's an old saying "Practice makes perfect."

Doing a variety of shoots, or projects, will provide opportunity to do, and learn, new things. Kinda like learning to drive a car, with time behind the wheel one gets better. New encounters like snow conditions.

A few years ago there was a terrible accident on a local four lane commercial district road. The cars (drivers) were following each other too close and one car stopped, the car behind "jumped" into the left lane as the last second without slowing down and the car that was behind it plowed into the rear of the stopped car. Lesson learned: give some space behind the car in front.

That was for driving but doing a video has lots of different situations and to be able to adjust to them, it really helps to have experience, the "been there, done that" kind.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Sure I can do that. When it comes to getting actors to do individual scenes though, without a whole story, how should I go about trying to get them on board with that, since before, no one wanted to do just one scene only, when I tried?

But I was also told before, to stop doing projects with the same people, willing to work for free, cause I was told that the problems I have are bad acting and cinematography, so it's not worth doing any more free no budget projects, if they are just going to result in the same problems. Do you think the people who told me that, have a point?

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

AGain, what I'm suggesting is these are not really supposed to be "real" movies or projects.. just trying to get you to test and see for yourself how all these things you ask about will work in a tangible way.

What does a star filter look like in the context of the project you're thinking of using it on? Answer: go out and film with one at a similar location or scene.

Blah blah blah blah blocking? Answer: storyboard the crap out of a scene or short and film it to see what happens when you try to follow those boards exactly the way you want. Did it work out or did you have problems that no amount of planning could solve?

etc. etc. for each of your many questions/threads.

Hell, you could even cast, family, friends, yourself in every role. The idea here is proof of concept...what result do I get when I do X? Most of your concerns are technical not artistic so again for these purposes, doesn't matter if the actors are bad.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay well the last short film I made, I followed the storyboards down to a T without changing my mind on set at all, and I felt things were much better, than on past projects. I didn't fall into any traps that I did when changing my mind on set before.

I've tried to get family and friends to do tests with. They are okay with helping out with a shot here and there, but they never have time for a whole scene, and always cancel or duck out so far.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Do you have that short available to view? As much as it may be painful you can learn a lot by criticism, especially when you think something is good (not to say it isn't but anytime something of mine was criticized it was rarely about the things I had ever thought were lacking).

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Sure here is one I completed:


Here is one I am currently editing now, and here is a very rough cut:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x32nSz6pCc&t=79s\

And here is another one:

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

We've seen those. I mean the one you said you followed your storyboards to a T and were pleased with the result.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

That was the first one I posted, Battle Damaged Souls.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You can have a one or two minute film that tells a story, some commercials are shorter than than that and they tell a story.

https://biteable.com/blog/tips/best-commercials/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/christma...er-elton-john/

There are also 15 second and 30 second film festivals, where you have to tell a story in that time.

re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Perhaps but out of all the scripts I have come across, none are that short. I am not a good writer though, and was told by others to no longer do any more of my scripts and choose better ones, written by better writers, if that's true, I should. I could keep looking for shorter ones.