Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks. Next time I will definitely try to set the marks more accurately. I think I gave the actors too much freedom to move around, when I shouldn't have.

Since real locations are pretty cramped though, is there anything I can do to work around that though, for next time?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

-looks at the original question
-looks at the name of the poster
-moves on

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

The lesson to learn here is if a shot is too short it’s jarring. It’s especially a good idea to hold the last shot longer to allow the viewer time to let what transpired sink in before moving to another scene.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, thanks. For that short film I was told to tighten it up and have it move faster, but I over did it. Next one I will let it play out more.

One thing about that shot is that it's an over the shoulder shot, but it turns into a close up, once the one actress leaves. The camera is focused on the actress, and then after she leaves, it turns into a close up of the actor as he turns to look at her leaving. For that shot, should I have had the camera on a slider, cause then as she leaves I can back it up, so as she leaves and as he turns then he is not so close to the camera? If I want an OTS to turn into a close up like that, should I dolly the camera back?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

See message below

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I suspect Ryan tends to over cut, he feels the need to put in more cuts than are necessary, which can be distracting. Let the actors drive the emotion, not the cutting

There's nothing wrong with a jarring cut given the right dramatic context.

There are no rules about how you do this. A wider shot with her walking away with him watching would do the same job as all your complicated shots. You could cut into a MS or MCU for him banging the cabinets. The EXT shot of the woman is rather weak with a boring location that doesn't say where she is, not helped by a rather flat performance.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Jarring can be useful but not in the context of this scene. The point of this scene is the convo and the shift in emotion between them. The cu of the cabinet feels out of place, unnecessarily thrown in as your visual explanation point. The ext shot should be on his reaction and her departure.

Like Brian said the acting and dialogue is flat. If you could have redone this scene you should have spent more of your efforts on improving their performance.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Actually I did have a wider shot, of her walking away, but I chose not to use it because I thought the close up of him as she walked away was better, acting wise. Even if the acting is flat, it was more flat in the wider shot I felt. But should I not always choose which shot because of performance, and go for th wide, if it means better framing?

Oh okay thanks. The performances I felt were better during rehearsals, but one of the actors became unavailable so I had to rewrite the plot and the dialogue had to changed to support plot changes, and this new dialogue and plot was rewritten hours before shooting, so I think next time if I rewrite, definitely cancel the shoot in order for more rehearsal time, if that's better?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well originally when I show the original cut to people, they say there is not enough cuts, and I hold shots too long, and I need to create a faster pace, I was told. So I make more cuts and show them again, and then they say more cutting. Next time I will not put in that many for sure.

When you say that the location does not say where she is, in the previous shot to the location the man explains to her what this file room is and what is in the files. Doesn't that explain enough?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It's not unusual for shots to be tightened up, however, this may only involve a few frames, although sometimes the original length is fine when the shots around it are tightened. You also have the right to ignore or use in part people's comments.

The file room is nothing to do with the geography of the woman in the next shot.

Currently, the cutting in the filing room is very film student and the awkward framing doesn't help.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

There are many factors that make something interesting. In this scene you have two characters standing still, delivering flat lines to each other. It’s boring and no amount of cutting is going to help it. You can’t apply a rule as a cure all to fix some other problem.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, so when it comes to cutting from location to another such as the woman being in a different spot in the next cut, how do I do that without the geography becoming confusing. When you say the file room has nothing to do with the geography of the woman in the next shot, how do I make the audience understand that she has left the building in the cutting then?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

This could have been accomplished by him walking out of the filing room to the window to observe her getting into her car.

There are lots of creative ways to bridge scenes. Another technique is start and end on cu. For example end with his hand closing the filing cabinet and start with cu her hand opening the car door. Or he using a key to lock the cabinet and she’s turning the key to start her car.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Okay thanks, but I showed her come out of the building by opening the door, and walking out. But I was told by people that she takes too long to open the door and come out and I should skip ahead cause we don't see to actually see her opening the door. Is that true? Or if a person leaves a building, then we should always seem them come out the door?

I couldn't really shoot out the window though to show him observing her because the location didn't have any windows that could show that.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Having the building in the background with her walking away will do the job.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, but isn't that what you have in my shot? She is walking away with the building in the background?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It didn't look like a building more like a tomb or mausoleum.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Is that bad if the building looks like that?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Just a location fail.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, but let's say you like the unusual look of the location and you went for that unusual look intentionally... How do you show a character exit an unusual looking building without it being confusing then?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

A location can be unusual, but it has meet the requirements of the world you're creating for your story. There are some eccentric office buildings around, but they usually still look like there are offices inside. In a film that has to come across instantly.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, well the location was the building you see at a wine vineyard, since the story is about a wine company, but don't wine vineyard buildings look like that, or at least the ones I've seen in photographs do.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

I agree with Brian the location is strange it neither looks like a corporate office or vineyard there is a disconnect between the inside and out. I initially thought when I saw him walking down the stairs it looks like modern house, but the filing room looks like an office. You also don’t do a wide enough shot establishing the building. There should have been signage inside and out ... xyz vineyards. I would have at least used an exterior of another building.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay, well there is already an exterior shot of the building right after she first enters the file room. So I thought it would be strange to use two establishing shots, wouldn't it? I could have put that establishing shot before showing the inside building at all, if that would have been better.

Do I need to always show an establishing shot of the building before cutting to an interior though, if I plan on having the actors leave the building and go outside?

For example, the next project I want to do there is a scene that starts out in a police station interrogation room, where a witness is being interviewed and then leaves. I want the witness to be escorted outside by the police into a car after. But since I am choosing to show the outside of the building here, do I have to show the outside of it before the interrogation as well?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You're labelling and rule following again. There MUST be an establishing shot, but forgetting to make the link with WHY. If the establishing shot fails, and establishes nothing, or worse - adds confusion. In the time movie we have a person who can alter time with a laptop. For some reason, he does this in a field. We have building where nothing to do with wine appear to happen? If you make wine - then there is an expectation that we will see winemaking, not the HR department, or paper shufflers. The movie was about aging wine, yet how much wine did we see being made, stored, handled, tested? You probably had a shot list, and ticked them as done when shooting, but ticking etablishing shot, close up of X, mid shot of Y, cutaway Z didn't mean they served their purpose, or perhaps even had a purpose apart from being in the list. We've mentioned so many things in the movie that left us confused, yet you still try to rationalise everything in individual terms.

Buying the ingredients for a recipe in a book, don't mean it will be tasty!

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It's not an establishing shot if you've already established the location.

If you show the building again depends on the next scene. If they're released and go straight to Pauly's pizza place, which has already been established, you don't need to have them walking out of the police station or even the exterior of the pizza place if we've already seen it and the audience knows where they are,

If they're released and they don't know what to do next in the outside or it's a big moment getting out you'll show the building exterior. as the boys turn up in a hearse with a good time girl in a coffin.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

You filmed a close shot of a building that neither looks like an office or a vineyard. You haven’t established anything! This movie is about wine but where are the vineyards, the oak barrels, the grapes... This is so obvious and basic but you don’t get it. This is what I would consider an appropriate establishing shot https://marylandwine.com/wp-content/...s-Building.jpg

We are just giving you an honest evaluation but you deflect or defend every point of criticism. In every aspect this is what I’d expect from high school student getting his feet wet. You’ve got a long way to go to make anything of commercial quality.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh okay thanks. In my head I did have a lot more shots, but didn't get to have them cause of budget. In my head there was an actual vineyard, with barrels of wine, and these other establishing shots. But I didn't use any of the shots because of budget.

Should I make sure to get more money next time for such establishing shots? Or if I don't have the budget, should I write in dialogue as the person explains the location to another character instead?

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

It's no use having things in your head, the audience doesn't know what's in there, they only know what they see on the screen.

If it's supposed to be a vineyard, the audience has to see it's a vineyard. the old show, don't say thing. You can cheat like crazy to create the impression of a vineyard, that's what art directors do all the time. .

You're making a movie, not a radio play. Expositional dialogue is death to a drama, unless its used carefully.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

This is why it’s a not good to get ideas from movies or write screenplays that you neither have the budget or access to locations you need. You should be looking for things you have around you and build stories around them instead of trying impose a story that you can’t pull off. If you lived in Northern California it would have been a natural fit to this story. I can see a reoccurrence of the same types of problems in your cop thriller.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Actually I thought the cop thriller would be less money to shoot cause aside from the police station looking building, the rest of takes place in houses, cabins, parks, places like that, so I thought those kind of places would be more accessible, unless I am wrong?

But people I have worked with before, so far do not want to do that one and keep encouraging me to do the Santa Claus one I mentioned before, but I thought that one would be more difficult to do than the cop one.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Having seen Saskatoon recently on TV programme, it's a rather pretty place, although i suppose there may be a dark underbelly side of town somewhere. Perhaps there's a Blue Velvet side to it, but on the surface it's not NY or LA.

Maybe the Santa Claus script is a better story? Perhaps you understand its world better than dealing with cops and dark characters.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh actually I felt I understood the cop world better at least in terms of plot. The Santa one, I feel I do not have near as much of a grasp on, but they want me to do it cause they said it's the best one I have access to so far. I wouldn't say the Santa one is a better story, just very different. But the Santa Claus one I find to be more challenging and intimidating cause it requires more lavish sets and production design, and would rather just do a script I can shoot at more real locations.

A.s for whether Saskatoon has a dark underbelly to it or not, well I wasn't planning on setting the script in Saskatoon though.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

We’re just pointing out things that didn’t work and why they didn’t work. It’s your job to understand the mistakes, what lead to them, and how not to repeat them in your next project.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

The plot is only how you tell the story, it's not the story. If that's all you know it probably has unconvincing characters within an unconvincing world. Do you know real criminals or inside the world of real police?

Saskatoon has to look and feel like the place where this story could happen, even if it's supposed to be another city.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Well I watch a lot of crime thrillers and read them so I feel I would do better in the genre that I like and watch more compared to the Santa one which I hardly ever watching anything, if that means anything?

I thought for the cop thriller, I would set it in a nameless city that is not identified, like some movies like Seven do, and thought that would be best.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

The only project I’ve ever seen from you that was decent was an interview with musicians. We repeatedly keep telling you not to try to make feature films. Stick to simple small scale projects like interviews or maybe vlog or youtube channel until you achieve some level of professional success.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Watching crime thrillers isn't the same as knowing the real people, you're second or third generation from the originals.

Saskatoon looks nothing like the unnamed city in Seven, although I understand it was based on NYC, where the writer lived for a while.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

Oh yeah, I'm not saying Saskatoon has to look like the city in Seven does it? It's not a rule that a nameless city in a crime thriller, has to look like that one, does it? I was just using Seven as an example of how it's set in a nameless city, and thought I would do the same. I've interviewed police officers and attorneys for it, if that helps.

Re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 

What police and attorneys say in interviews can be very different to what happens in real life, together with the office politics and egos that come with the job.