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-   -   Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/techniques-independent-production/537197-would-using-star-filter-cinematography-too-weird.html)

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 09:42 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale (Post 1956125)
I suspect Ryan doesn't think beyond the name and seems unaware of the advantages or limitations of each piece of equipment. If he was aware, he would've decided in about 30 seconds if it's dolly or slider he requires for the film.

On the basis of his wish list shot, it's a Pee Wee dolly with risers, track and a few other accessories that he needs. Super Pee Wee - Film Camera Dolly For Hire UK - Chapman UK
When you say I don't think beyond the name, what do you mean by 'name'? You mean the name of the product?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul R Johnson (Post 1956126)
If I wanted to describe a shot I had in mind by using example movie clips I don't think I could. I cannot remember watching more than a tiny handful of movies where shots rather than stay stuck in my head. There is no way I'd be able to share a go in, and up then tilt down shot - Why would I remember such things. Many of ryan's clips I've seen and they didn't stand out at all to me as exceptional, or astounding, or spellbinding or any of those pearly descriptive words. In fact, the only movie with an image in it that made me say wow was a long time ago and was of all things, Star Gate - in the desert with a pyramid. I've racked my brains for other amazing shots, which there must have been hundreds, but none were to me, memorable.

I work with professional production companies, and also sometimes amateur ones, and very rarely do the professionals get excited, or impressed. Perhaps compared to amateurs, they're jaded and seen it all before, but it's a job for most, not a 'calling'. Ryan has amazingly lofty aims, nitpicking attention to some details and blindness to others, but no chance to bring any of it off because others just want to get on and do it. Ryan wants to plan and plan and plan, and then get frustrated because he cannot do the very basic things.

Maybe his location just isn't the right place to be?
As for not giving examples that are astounding or spellbounding, should my shots be that way? Should I aim for that, for all these shots?

Brian Drysdale January 7th, 2020 10:28 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
You don't seem to be aware of what you need to do or the difference between a dolly and a slider. If you need to track the camera more than 3ft to 4ft in any shots a slider won't meet your requirements.

Shots should fit the story and how you're telling it. From memory that shot in "Schindler's List" is used to reveal the venal nature of Göth who can be bought for money, what does your shot reveal? Or is it just a neat shot that you want to use?

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 10:55 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Oh well for the shot I want to do, I wanted to do an over the head shot, over an actor's head to make the other actor he is facing look weak, and then I wanted to bring the camera around to the actor who is in more power but lower the camera as it comes around to his face to show that power. So it's not the same as the Schindler's List shot, but it has to move horizontally and vertically simultaneously, like the equipment used there.

I thought maybe a slider would be a compromise if I had to, but ideally the dolly would probably be better since you can make curved motions with it and move further.

Brian Drysdale January 7th, 2020 11:11 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Can't the performance of the two actors combined with a simple cut. possibly with a simple track added into the equation do precisely the same thing?

Sergio Leone would probably do the same thing with a cut.

Charles Papert January 7th, 2020 11:20 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Bass (Post 1956116)
I wish Charles Papert still posted here...all these things would be right up his alley.
You rang?

(I don't really know what I can contribute to this thread at this point!)

Josh Bass January 7th, 2020 11:24 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
I just figured you were a gear and cinematography AND directing expert (I thought you’d directed something) as well as having plenty of experience thinking on your feet, stretching a budget and macguyvering things together when something else wasnt available or too expensive, etc. and might have some insight.

Paul R Johnson January 7th, 2020 11:27 AM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Charles - as the person who is a master of moving cameras, I think your advice would rather be something Ryan can really take on board.

I'm not really sure about Ryan's assumption that he can use these techniques to convey the messages he intends? Looking down, and looking up is one thing but getting the camera fluidly and untouched almost from first to second position would seem to be a problem based on current skill levels - if faced with the description of the shot - how would you prefer to shoot it?

Charles Papert January 7th, 2020 12:16 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence fellas! Unfortunately I can't take the time to pore through 247 posts (it seems to have veered quickly away from star filters!), if Ryan or someone can concisely sum up the talking points I can offer some thoughts...or at least point me to the crux of the discussion.

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 02:38 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale (Post 1956131)
Can't the performance of the two actors combined with a simple cut. possibly with a simple track added into the equation do precisely the same thing?

Sergio Leone would probably do the same thing with a cut.
Sergio Leone has done things like that with camera movements instead of cuts.

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 02:39 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert (Post 1956135)
Thanks for the vote of confidence fellas! Unfortunately I can't take the time to pore through 247 posts (it seems to have veered quickly away from star filters!), if Ryan or someone can concisely sum up the talking points I can offer some thoughts...or at least point me to the crux of the discussion.
Sure, I can try to sum them up, do you have any questions on what you need to know? Thanks.

I guess what I want to know is, is there any ways or tools, for moving a camera with longer lenses without tracks if possible, that can produce unmotivated type of vertical and horizontal movement?

Brian Drysdale January 7th, 2020 03:02 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1956136)
Sergio Leone has done things like that with camera movements instead of cuts.
Yes, but he had more resources than you, what you need is something that works dramatically and is simple and quick to do

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 03:11 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Yes, and I thought with all the much lower budget technology out there today, that there was probably something available that could do it, if I knew what would be the correct choices.

Pete Cofrancesco January 7th, 2020 03:34 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Papert (Post 1956135)
Thanks for the vote of confidence fellas! Unfortunately I can't take the time to pore through 247 posts (it seems to have veered quickly away from star filters!), if Ryan or someone can concisely sum up the talking points I can offer some thoughts...or at least point me to the crux of the discussion.
Ryan has written a screen play and over the last year he has been compiling ideas on how to film it from movies he has seen. He then asks us how it was done and then often wants to know if he could film it using another cheaper and easier method. And before you know it he’s moved on to something else.

I for the most part think its not a good idea trying to replicate scenes from Hollywood movies both for creative and monetary reasons. It would be far better to film in a way that tells your story with the tools that one has available.

Many others have suggested he work his way up on a professional set rather than watching the finished product and trying to deduce the manner it was made.

Ryan Elder January 7th, 2020 04:04 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Oh okay, well I have worked on sets before it's just I figure I should do my own projects as well too.

As for working with the equipment I have available, I haven't got a lot of equipment. That is why I asked, to what equipment is feasible.

Pete Cofrancesco January 7th, 2020 04:24 PM
re: Would using a star filter for cinematography be too weird?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Elder (Post 1956141)
Oh okay, well I have worked on sets before it's just I figure I should do my own projects as well too.

As for working with the equipment I have available, I haven't got a lot of equipment. That is why I asked, to what equipment is feasible.
If you worked on a set you should know what equipment is needed. Whatever you did on that set hasn't taught you enough to produce and direct your own feature film.

To go back to my building a house analogy. I could buy you the tools needed to make a house and teach you how to use those tools but you still wouldn't know how to build a house.


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