Script Writing and Digital Pre-Production Software
 

Hope it's OK to post a self-serving (non-spammy) message to let people know about a new, free (now and forever), open standard (now and forever) script writing and digital pre-production application that's gaining an international following (available in ten languages). The software also enables sharing with team members (aka Collaboration).

In addition to providing a full feature set for writing and editing scripts, Celtx also enables people to do media rich breakdowns, letting you add digital pictures, sound files and (for the moment limited to) QuickTime clips to the script. It also has extensive note features.

www.celtx.com

mgk

Interesting..uses Firefox technology and xml. Thanks for the link.

Fairly impressive stuff, I'm trying it out right now and I think I'll probably use it (which is saying alot since I have Final Draft). I kinda wish their was a bit of an autodetect feature though, such as when you add dialogue the name of the character should automatically be added to the character breakdown....and any improper nouns could be added to the prop catagory. That way it would practically autobreakdown your script for you.

Trying it out now as well.

Fairly impressive at first glance but there are bugs.

Some nagging questions / issues (?).

It saves but as .pdf and .html? I don't get it. You cannot 'publish' it except to its own servers yet it is supposed to be open source. That means your online collaboration is beholden to the sanctity of their servers.

Looks like I'll have to learn a lot more about it from their bulletin board.

Save As...
 

Thanks for the feedback.

Keith, our messaging could do with some improving...

First, know that your script is saved locally (on your own hard drive) as a *.html file (in keeping with the open standard aspect of the software).

However, the *.html file is one of several files that you create when you use the software, all stored in a Celtx Project folder (includes a file for the RDF database that is linked to the script, and any resources (jpegs, MP3s, and QTs) that you've associated with the Project). This folder is saved by default under your Celtx profile which is located in Microsoft’s ‘Applications Data’ folder (which MS (not us) hides by default). We've posted a message on our Forum about how to tickle open the Applications Data folder so you can see the Celtx files.

We have received feedback from our users about allowing 'Saves As...' to somewhere other then the default setting. This new feature will be added to the next release scheduled for a couple of week’s time.

I hope this helps.

Mark

Mark, thanks for the response. Yes, I saw from the bulletin board that ongoing suggestion about the Save As and I agree, you need to be able to save it to wherever you want it on your own computer.

As for saving as .html I'm not quite sure about that. The possibility of web-based collaboration is intriguing and there is nothing really wrong with using .html as a *publishing* form (I'm a web developer by trade). Naturally, being able to export to .pdf is good and the output seems fine to me at first glance. But as an editing form it seems like using your tool is asking for everyone to commit to using Celtx. How do you pass it to someone using Final Draft or Word for example for editing? It doesn't seem like they can.

Right now I am a third of the way through my fourth script. I've always written in Word but have been looking for a pure screenwriting alternative without buying Final Draft. But the Celtx import doesn't support Word or .rtf. I can export the Word doc to .txt which introduces some minor formatting issues. However the import of Celtx from the .txt outputted by Word creates one huge scene file and removes all of the formatting. Obviously, given that problem none of the scene breaks, character, wryly or dialogue was parsed by Celtx either.

I started a script from scratch using Celtx and some bugs need to be shaken out. I created several scenes but only one shows up in the breakdown. For some reason, when I do a total breakdown, only the title page information shows up.

I'm sure most of these problems will be shaken out in your next version. It is mostly the interoperability of Celtx that concerns me. Although it is open source and I support open source, if for some reason Celtx goes away or is bought out, then having my scripts in that singular format doesn't give me confidence. Whereas, Word .doc format, although proprietary to Microsoft, is so widespread I have no problem leaving any of my scripts in that format. Or perhaps editable .pdf. I could output backups in .html which is an open format, but I don't relish editing a screenplay in an .html editor if for some reason I chose not to keep using Celtx. Outputting to straight .txt is not a solution because then I would have to reimport to Word and spend a day reformatting.

This is my reaction after playing around with Celtx for one day and from browsing the bulletin board for a couple hours. If my criticisms are missplaced that's because of that short period of use. I fully intend to explore Celtx more and hope that it will become a solution for me.

Keith

Once again, thanks for the great feedback.

Celtx should import a FD file (or MMSW etc.) that has been, in turn, exported as a "Text with layout'. We recently had a user post a message about how well it works http://forums.celtx.com/viewtopic.php?t=469

We are trying to make Celtx as interoperable as possible. After all, that's one of the chief reasons behind making it an open standards application – to avoid vendor lock-in. To date, Celtx exports to HTML, TXT and PDF, with a XHTML option on the way.

Making the application interoperable with FD or Word etc. is made difficult by the proprietary nature of those applications. Nonetheless, we are aware of this issue and are working diligently to make it friendlier to import/export your files.

Celtx uses a HTML editor. This has raised some technical challenges for us, not the least of which is providing a WYSIWYG experience for our users (which is on the way in an upcoming release).

The HTML side of the application stems from our using Firefox. This gives Celtx seamless integration with the Net, providing a low cost mechanism for publishing script based projects – something we feel will become increasingly important for film makers. Some larger media companies, like HBO and Fox, seem to have already cottoned on to the idea, providing fan based sites for shows like Six feet Under and Deadwood that have annotated scripts and associated QuickTime clips.

Our vision is to provide a professional grade writing and digital production application that lso provides access to a direct, low cost mechanism for publishing film projects. Our ‘Project Central’ site is a proof of concept of this idea, enabling people to post their entire project – the script annotated with notes, pictures, sound files, and QTs – in one place. Try that with Word or FD!

Thanks again.

Mark

Mark thanks for your reply and based upon what you wrote I am encouraged to continue exploring Celtx. I've already passed on recommendations to other writers I talk to so that they can see the development of it progress. I agree that the possibilities for collaboration are wide open. I'm glad to see the interoperable issues are being looked at. And once the basic production issues are ironed out in future releases, I can see this potentially being a great tool.

New release candidate
 

If you check the CeltX forums they now have a new candidate for their next release available for testing.

Since I last posted I've converted my next screenplay project into celtX and have been using it regularly. Once they release their next candidate I will review it again (I am a tester now).

Mark, do you plan on supporting the open doc standard? That would allow for Star Office and Open Office integration. (I'm planning on using one or the other when the new versions are released.)

Keith, keep us updated. I tried Celtx several times over the last year maybe and it was all but useless. Many bugs and not being able to save where you wanted meant it wasn't going to get a loot in. Sophocles is amazing but unfortunately no Mac version. FD and MMSW are the naffest looking and with primitive interfaces (for the Mac). So much so I don't want to use them ;)

Let's hope Celtx can pick it up!

Aaron

They listened to the complaints about not being able to save locally and yes you can in the release candidate. Actually you could with the previous (current) version too but it was hard to do.

Joe: I'm not sure if the celtX people read this board so you may want to ask on the celtx board.

Thanks so much! We're all about recommending free or low cost software. heck, I've been asking about free photo editors and the like for the past two weeks now!

Heath

The summary of the celtX improvements I've seen (I may have missed some):
- ability to save locally
- new and improved interface
- hotkeys for common formatting
- bold, underline, italics formatting
- new way of assigning department tags (..props, set dressing, etc.)
- expanding list of department tags
- improved breakdown

This looks pretty cool, we've been using "traditional" web-based collaboration software for this purpose but it always falls short.

I'll have to check it out and let you all know how it compares to some of the stuff we've been using so far.

I just came across this elsewhere, it's pretty nice. I'm running it on OS X 10.2.8. Still have to really dig into this app, but it looks like what I've been looking for - AND for free.

When I get some dough I'm gonna donate.

The alpha candidate is now a beta release so everyone can download the newest version 0.9.3. Go to celtx.com.

Really need some MP3 support with it. Most music on most people's computers are MP3s. I just downloaded it and fooling around. It's a great idea. I'd been looking for something like it for years. The only way I can write is with music and visuals. Keep it up.

Has anyone used the collaboration features sucessfully?

We were able to "share" a script from one system and download it to another, but how do you update the changes? I tried to re-upload the file but it won't let me.

I would also suggest a slightly more sophisticated interface to the "download" process, maybe instead of showing all public files mixed with the "shared" files that you have access to, start by showing just the "shared" files, or add a search/query function?

I think the app is very cool but especially for us, extending the online collaboration capabilities is key.

A good workaround for the proprietary nature of Word, etc, document files is to use the RTF (Rich Text Format) file type. That's particularly designed for cross-platform document exchange and almost everything can both read and save in it.

If you read the CeltX forums this is a feature already on their to do list.

I for one would like to have the feature of sticking notes easier - more like Adobe Acrobat does it. So you can move them around, regardless of text layout.

Also I find it a bit difficult for the actual writing, for one my Home and End keys don't work in it, OS X version. Don't know why. I'm gonna do some further experimenting with it, but we have a big indie actionfilm project coming up and for preproduction this could be just the thing.

One question though, when you upload the project onto the server does it completely replace the version currently there? In other words: if someone downloads yesterday's version of the project, and while they add their bit somebody else downloads it. The first guy uploads his project changed, then the second guy - whose version doesn't have the first guy's changes in it. Will they disappear into bit space or somehow be saved?

If it would be a real online working environment for preproduction crews it would be a thing of beauty and I'd be willing to even pay for it a bit :)

What you would need is some way to compare all changes and merge them all. This too has it's problems. If you and I change the same line in a script and upload them both, which change wins? Simply by the time it is uploaded? If we aren't in constant communication about our individual changes, that could make a hash out of a previously good document.

Personally, I would think it would be better not to merge the changes into an old document but to simply replace the older version with the newer. Otherwise you need a database with the possibility of reverting backward and it would have to keep track of all changes. More tricky software on the back end I would think.

In the end, probably better to just have the server hang on to the last 10 or so changes and add a rev number based on date and time. That way if you make a change and I want to go backwards one step, I can look at a list of versions and recall that one.

Sounds like a great project.

Sean McHenry

Proper version control is something that has been requested and, I believe, is inevitable if they hope to sell it to an institution such as a school or small studio / development group.

However, at present it is fairly easy to simply save as a new project and name it with a version number. Providing your group isn't super active or large, you could then alert the others in the group by email that there is a new file.

I actually have never trusted versioning for the individual work I do (even though I've worked in a graphics production environment for games, film before). Call me paranoid. I don't like trusting a server to keep track of versions. I might submit to a shared versioned document but not for the work I do on my own workstation.

Okari, I've just finished a professional Acrobat course and explored the way Acrobat handles commenting. Very powerful! You should bring this up on the celtx forums. I'm sure there are others who are Acrobat users as well.

Sean, one way to handle this is to lock either the document or the page you are working on when checking it out. This prevents others from making changes to the same line. The other is as you say, a different version is uploaded for each person, with the latest upload being the newest. A good VCS would inform you of potential overwrites and give you the option to replace or add or merge.