Turnhere.com - Seriously?!
 

Received this email this morning - Please tell me no one seriously considers a ridiculous offer like this? (FYI their "standard fee" is $100-$250max for a finished commercial)

"Dear Filmmaker:

I’m writing to tell you about our recent Free Video Giveaway Program. This program was to end on December 31st and limited to our active filmmakers but it has been such a hit that we’ve extended it into 2010. Therefore, we wanted to give you the opportunity to take advantage of it too.

And because TurnHere likes to make things easy, the concept is simple:

1. As a participant you can offer one video profile (similar to our 60-second small business interview profile) with no upfront cost to small businesses in your area. Note: Once you’ve passed our QA and delivered your 1st project, you’ll be eligible to offer and produce as many free videos as you want (and be ready to receive other assignments from TurnHere)

2. You’ll send interested businesses to an online order form and have them put your name in the referral field so we know which filmmaker to book for the project. Once we confirm the order we’ll call you to let you know that the business is ready for the shoot. You take it from there and schedule the shoot directly with the business, then produce the video.

3. We’ll handle the usual post-delivery process and you’ll be paid the standard production fee.

If you are interested in learning more, please reply to this email and I’ll send you an invitation to our orientation webinar. This webinar is the first mandatory step to take advantage of our program (and get other TurnHere assignments). I’ll provide several dates for your convenience.

We look forward to making great videos with you!

Thank You,

Lisa

P.S. If you do not wish to receive future correspondence from TurnHere, please reply to this email with the subject line, “Opt Out”

--------------
Lisa Perry
Filmmaker Recruiter"

So, to be clear - YOU send YOUR prospects to THEIR online application so that THEY can pay YOU a pittance?!?!?

Sign me up! I was hoping to go bankrupt this year!! <tongue planted FIRMLY in cheek>

That's sounds great to me, where do I sign! :) Okay seriously, do you reckon there is anyone dumb enough to sign up?

Why not play along and tell us what else they say?

Andrew

This is pretty good.

Come join the free film giveaway. You too can work for nothing and allow others to profit from your efforts.

I know this has always been there, but the internet allows these types to do it on a mass scale and not have to personally interact with anybody. It is a slippery slope if you ask me.

Not quite
 

Let me see - "turn"; "here": - no, these are definitely NOT the 2 words which sprang unbidden to mind when I read this.
:-)

Which is (interestingly) pretty much the content of every "job" listing on Craigslist in my market as well...

Turn here has been around for a while... interestingly, I too got the same e-mail, which implies they've been doing this for a while.. news to me...

Sounds to me like they are trying to generate some "local" interest, which isn't as bad a marketing plan as it sounds - we're talking 60 second online "yellow page" type spots, not big commercial productions, so I suppose if one could generate ENOUGH interest to shoot/cookie-cutter edit a stack of these it might add up...

They aren't the first video marketing aggregator with a "new" idea (anyone remember SAGAS? There's another outfit that does video resumes for "executives"...). These operations have a business plan, an idea, and some startup money, along with some in house samples, and they are hoping to "franchise" the concept by paying sub-contractors peanuts to shoot locally. Problem is these "great ideas" don't scale/promote as expected, and all the "promise" turns to tumbleweeds.

Probably better off to write one's own business plan and keep the whole proceeds though, if you're good enough. I've seen this in the wedding photo and video biz (where the model supposedly works - I've heard a few still shooters very happy with just shooting and turning over the memory cards). BUT... for what they charge, I'd rather drop my rates & keep the whole thing than take thier "shoot only" or "shoot and edit" prices (roughly 1/4 or less of what they charge when booking the customer).

Here's the rub of ANY "offer" like this - if they don't deliver actual JOBS that pay, and in my experience they don't either in the short OR long run, you'll turn a lovely cool shade of blue sitting by the phone holding your breath...

These ideas might have worked in a booming economy, but one must make their own "magic" in an economy that's gone "BOOM"...

The money would be ok if all you had to do was film and mail the raw footage to them. Capture, edit and upload. lol. I'm sure they get ppl who are just starting out who need experience... Too bad it could have been nice to fill down time you inevitably have as a freelancer.

I used to do this type of work for a guy with a local tv show. For $500 we'd produce an ad for them. What made it worth my while was the volume, we'd shoot 10 of these for a week.

There is a company in my town doing this right now. CGI out of New York or somewhere over there. The city of Red Deer paid them 60k for a website "template" a video box in the middle of a bunch of ads that when you click them opens a new video box on a new page. Then they get business to pay $7500 for a 1 min commercial. They are looking for people to shoot them locally and are paying us $200 to shoot them. I said no to them. The worst part about this is local production companies had already gone to the city pitching the exact same thing for a lot less and were turned down because they didn't have a working website template. The funny thing is the city just spend a million bucks on a shop local campaign. Go figure.

I've been working for TurnHere for a while and they are legit and pay promptly. While I've had reduced hours at my day job this past year and have struggled to support my family, TurnHere work has been most welcome.

The work has mostly been Yellow Pages ads, they take 90 minutes to shoot and a couple hours to edit, then upload results and get paid. Not a bad deal once you get into the rhythm. There is a template to follow and it works. No script, no fancy graphics, just good clean shoot/edit/deliver.

Check them out if you need some extra income

Jeff

So you're doing 5 hours of work for $100?

Thanks Ethan! More to the point.

My understanding is that the most Turnhere pays for a finished commercial is $250 (or free - LOL). So let's assume that you have $5000 tied up in gear (camera, sticks, lights, mic(s), computer, software, etc.). Though $10K would probably be more reasonable. In order to make back your investment on GEAR ALONE you have to shoot 20 (to 40) jobs.

The $250 per job doesn't begin to compensate you for your time, liability insurance (in case someone trips over your stinger and breaks an ankle or your light starts a fire), health insurance, fuel costs, vehicle maintenance (oil changes), equipment insurance, internet costs to FTP footage, equipment repair, wear and tear, etc. You would need to shoot at least another 20 jobs just to offset the above "costs of doing business."

This is NOT a sustainable "business model" and you are only empowering others to devalue your work when you sell your talent at this rate.

Why don't you guys just make a counter offer of what you feel it should pay for that amount of work? It's got to be better than a simple "no" (or silence) to TurnHere.

They may even start to see things your way.

Andrew

Actually I quoted them my half day rate the last time I talked with one of their reps on the phone. They were most definitely NOT interested. Turnhere also used to qualify it's "shooters" based on demo reels or sample footage. Now they want you to work for free then they will, at their discretion, send you more low/no paying jobs. What a deal!!!

"If you work for free that's what your work is worth - nothing."

I almost got involved with this. I heard about them submitted my info, and then had to call in on a conference call the next day, and listen to noobs ask questions while some of the "veterans" checked in. Back then, the idea was you shoot for an hour (30 mins interview with small biz owner, 30 mins b-roll) then you have 48 hours to edit and upload it to their server. I don't remember how long each piece was supposed to be, when finished. . .a minute? Several? Anyway, $200 for all that.

I work in video production around Houston. I know I am fairly cheap for the market, but I'm okay with that. Even by my standards though, that rate is way low.

What if you were only to submit crappy / rushed work for that sort of money. And others were doing the same?

Sometimes I am waaay too evil. ;->

Andrew

I saw a few of their samples. They weren't half bad, for available light stuff shot quickly and edited quickly. Kinda makes me sad that folks are slaving away like that for below industry rates.

Re: The Answer Factory: Demand Media and the Fast, Disposable, and Profitable as Hell Media Model | Magazine

Is this a related deal? Or something else entirely?

As someone who has done a ton of work for TurnHere....
 

Hey guys,

As someone who has done a ton of work for TurnHere, let me give some of my perspective on this. The TurnHere videos do not pay a ton of money. They are like a $1 hamburger at McDonalds. That is not necessarily a bad thing.

If you look at it as one video where you shoot and edit for $225, it doesn't sound great. However, after reluctantly taking one edit last year, it has skyrocketed. Imagine if you do 3 in a day? Thats $675 for the day, not so bad, especially when they are simple interviews, and a hand full of B-roll, using only available light. Each video takes about an hour to shoot, and if you are organized, an hour to edit.

Furthermore, after doing these, I often get calls from these same companies asking me to do other video and design projects.

As for the free videos, the idea is the same. You offer them to local business, you shoot the simple videos and you get paid for it. When this program came out, I was the first one to make an order, (about three minutes after launch). My wife and cousin have a small candle business, and I got paid to do a video for them. I also signed up a friend who has a local newspaper, 2 friends that are photographers, 2 friends that are real estate agents. These were all people that would not have spent the cash to have me shoot normally.

The other thing about TurnHere is that they actually pay. I have NEVER had to call and see where a check is (direct deposit now). The say 30 days out, but I always seem to be paid early

In closing, yes, the price for one video may seem small, but in reality, it's about $100 per hour (minus drive time, etc.). You aren't going to be able to flex your creative muscles much, but the work is very easy, fun, and you meat new people. I have loved it.

TurnHere Videos
 

No, its $225 for about 2 hours work....3 hours on occasion.

Hi Ethan,

I never said I did for for $100 (nor would I!). There seems to be a lot of preconceived notions about what the program is, according to the posts I've seen.

These are NOT big productions. You walk in with a small camcorder, wireless lav mic, and tripod, very minimal setup. No script, lighting, etc., very basic and easy to shoot. Couple hours to edit, you're done. TurnHere supplies the music library, and a lower thirds titles generator, no fancy graphics or transitions used.

Also, I am NOT trying to make a living with TurnHere, it's filler work when I'm slow, and things have been slow this year. I had a job the day after Thanksgiving, 5 minutes from home. I ran over and did the shoot in the morning, came home to a nice meal, then edited for a couple of hours and uploaded. DONE. $225 for me, on my day off. Is that so bad??

About the comments about requiring a $10k investment to do these jobs - I HAVE THE GEAR ALREADY. This is filler work for when I'm slow, my main source of work is weddings, corporate, and stage events. No one is forcing me to accept any TurnHere work. If I have time and want to make a quick couple hundred, I'll take a job.

My hours had been cut at my day job this year and video jobs are scarce, so I'll say again, TurnHere has been a BLESSING to my family to help get us by.

I understand that if your business has rent (storefront) and employees, then TurnHere jobs may not pay for you, but for students and home business videographers, it pays. I make a LOT more per hour shooting a TurnHere than I do at my day job. In fact, I make more per hour shooting for TurnHere than I do on a big wedding production that might pay $1500-2000, after considering all the hours and expenses involved with the wedding.

With weddings, I have meetings with the couple, long day of shooting, days of editing, making DVDs and packaging etc., so it could easily run 50-60 hours or more. I'd rather shoot 3-4 TurnHere jobs each week to be honest. I might actually have time to spend with my family!

So for those of you knocking the program...DON'T DO IT then. Just because it doesn't fit your business model, doesn't make it a bad thing. I just don't understand where all the animosity is coming from, from posters who don't know the details of the program and have not tried it either.

Regards,

Jeff

TurnHere Videos
 

You are 100% correct Jeff. And like I said, they have ALWAYS paid on time, and usually early.

Something else entirely - TurnHere is primarily focused on short online yellow page video clips for businesses to use for advertising - actually a pretty good idea if integrated with the other marketing efforts of a small biz.

I've been on their list, but I think since I'm out in the middle of nowhere and hang a left, there's not much demand. Seeing a couple people doing a stack of these at a time as a sideline makes me think about going out and setting up a couple with the free promo... glad to see it's working for some, even if it's not a huge goldmine per se.

Turnhere also has an association with another company to do cookie cutter wedding video, actually got notice on one job from that, but it was a holiday gig, so had to pass.

FWIW, no animosity towards TurnHere at all, just would like to see some leads, but maybe they've hit on something with this promotion. I'm set up to do short "hit and run" shoots and edits, so for me it'd be easy extra $, and that never hurts!

It seems to me there are ton of companies popping up with this same business model (at least the fee and time structure for the videographer). I've seen two or three other places with the same idea as turnhere pop up on craigslist.


I have to admire anyone who can edit anything decent in an hour. Cause I can't.

They have a business model, I doubt they are interested in changing it unless their revenue model supports it. Whether it works for a videographer probably depends on how busy you are and if there's enough "local" work available to make their business model fit for you.

Rick -
I think you're missing what the "offer" is - it's a promo where you (the video guy) go out and hit up a business, offering a "free" video (no cost to the business), turn the lead over to TH, who handles the booking and back end, and pays you the standard production fee. You're not being asked to "work for free".

This actually makes some pretty good sense - a free up front offer to get the gig (can't see a lot of businesses turning that down right now), TH pays you and makes their money on the back end. The promo gives them "feet on the ground" wherever there's an enterprising videographer with a bit of time on their hands, and the potential for that videographer to make money "giving away" free promotion to a business in a tight economy (while still getting paid).

Thinking about it, lets say you could book 3 of these at a shot (they suggest an hour shoot), get clean video and audio without need for heavy post production (shouldn't be that difficult), edit to a template (which they provide a good part of, with music and lower 3rds) to keep post time down on the 60 second finished product... might be a workable proposition. I've got a couple friends who probably could use a little free promo, if the back end costs are reasonable!

Editing in an hour
 

I think you would be surprised to find that you can. You essentially grab 60 seconds of good answers that they gave, add some b-roll, put music under it, do any tweaking (color correction, etc.), and you're done.

You got it, Dave
 

You've got it down, Dave. That is exactly the way I do it. I already had people I knew that wanted to do some video, but couldn't afford to justify paying for it. So I give them one of these, and I still get paid. I try to book 3 at a shot, so that I am making $675 for a day. Of that $675, the only cost is gas and a tape, which I keep afterwards. If you could book every workday of the year, it would be equivalent to a $176,000/year job.

I have done some work with CGI. I take these jobs when I don't have something else going their rates are a bit lower than what I prefer but better than other offers I have received (and passed on). They make the appointments, send me the script/shot list so all I have to do is show up and shoot SD and then send them a log sheet of the shots and the tape - there is no editing. CGI pays all the expenses - tape, postage, and mileage. Most shoots are close by so I can run out and shoot it and come home to make an invoice and send the tape out the door. The time that CGI figures it would take to do the shoot is accurate and usually more than is needed. It doesn't get much easier - there is nothing fancy needed.

I'm not going to get rich with these shoots, but these little jobs fill in the down time. Plus it doesn't hurt to meet new people...

The only bad things I can say is their mileage rate is a bit low for my 1 ton van and it takes 90 days to get paid - but they always pay.

Wow, I can't get over just how far some people will go to justify this INSANE race for the bottom. When you folks decide to start doing video as a TRUE profession (your full time livelihood) like some of us, don't come around here complaining that you can't make a living at it.

If your "only costs" are gas and tape, you're not taking your business seriously. Amortized costs of capital asset purchases (like cameras, quality audio...) should factor into ANY discussion of costs.

All I know is that ofttimes, the people that are the largest proponents of free or undervalued work are the first people to post COMPLETELY NOOB questions to the forums I frequent. Perhaps it's time for some of us to start withholding the decades of years of knowledge gained from WORKING in this industry from those that seek to cut our legs out from under us.

THIS is a respectful business model where the shooter is being paid for his/her time and doesn't assume any of the risk of a production, much like freelancing for a video production house.

Thanks for the clarification, Dave -- much appreciated.

I recently attended TurnHere's webinar and after reviewing my sample videos they replied that my samples only showed talking heads and no b-roll, so they were not confident that I could shoot a TurnHere commercial.

I replied to them with a link to one of the videos in my sample list that was at least 50% b-roll (cut aways). Was it an actual commericial? No. It was more like 10 commercials!

I am not a professional. Although their video samples were good considering all the restraints, they were not what most would call "pro." I truly believe I can meet or beat their standards. What I question is whether they actually have enough work to go around when you live in larger cities where there are literally hundreds of qualified videographers.

They did offer to let me go out and offer their free video campaign to local businesses, and if the customer requested me, they would allow me to shoot it, edit it etc. and IF they liked it they would pay me. By the way, I don't believe the free video campaign is without a hitch....there are special conditions to it.

In all honesty, preparation time, drive time, the 1 1/2 hrs on location time that they believe is sufficient, the complete edit time (if you value quality about 2 hours), plus a possible re-edit which you have to do if they request, could for some people (like me) take more like 6 to 8 hours. Perhaps after you have done a handful of these you learn to shave off some time.

What they are offering is $200 for the complete project. For me, I believe that would realistically be about $25 an hour.

I replied to their email that I would continue to grow my portfolio shooting paid videos in my area and that I would keep my profile updated with them.

From what I have read on this forum and others, TurnHere seems to be legitimate. Probably not very desirable to most professionals, but a good way for people like me to get some experience as well as deliver a decent product.

Well, here's my take. I got a call from them and they offered me $225 to shoot a 1 minute web spot. I had nothing else going on and I accepted the assignment. It was not a big pain, they expect very simple stuff, something pretty much any 'slap it together with
a couple sequences' news shooter does two or three of every day. They pay promptly
which is more than I can say for many of my REAL clients. However, I DO think it is
below standard wages.....I did one to see what it was like and that was that. They liked
what I did and told me they would send me all the work in my area (but I of course
have the option to say NO to any of the shoots). Which hasn't been an issue cause they
haven't called me back in 6 months. I DO live in an isolated town in Alaska so that
is probably one issue. However, I got a call from another similar company (BizClip)
which was basically doing the same thing. This time however, I was booked at my
'normal' day rate for basically the next two weeks. I told them that I could not get to
their 'low pay' job for another couple weeks. They asked what day I could schedule
them in, and I gave them a day. About three days later they called and asked if
I could squeeze them in as the business owner was leaving town for vacation before
I could get to it. I politely told them that unless they could pay me 4 times what they
were offering, that it would be financially reckless on my part to take the job when
I had real, paying work. They then tried to get me to refer them to someone else. I told
them that I did not know anyone that could take a job that paid that little, on that short
of a notice.....I don't think it ever got produced, and I wonder how they looked to the
business owner as they usually tell the business owners that they have shooters
'everywhere.'

Anyways, the spot I DID do for Turnhere, I knew the people that I did the spot for and it was
one of these 'freebies' which Turnhere is now promoting. The business owner told me a few
days later that they were offered a 'risk free trial spot. So, the one thing I will say
about this, is that YOU are taking NO risk. You go out and tell the business they can
get a 'free no obligation video' produced, and then if the business goes for it, you shoot
and edit the spot. You get paid your $225. Turnhere, then has to convince the business
that after their free trial offer is up, that they should PAY to keep the spot up online.
Many times, I am imagining that the business takes the 'freebie' and then CANCELS when
they would actually have to start to PAY. So Turnhere just paid you $225 and got a
big fat ZERO out of the deal. That's what happened on the one that I did, I got my money
and the business cancelled after the freebie period was over.

All I am saying, is that there is a little bit more to this story than meets the eye.
In theory, it should be easy for a shooter to go out and sell 'free' to a business
in the current economy. And for every 'free' spot they sell, they get $225.
Turnhere meanwhile, is taking the risk that they can convince the business to
stay online, which is a much riskier proposition.....with a big reward if they do
convince them. It's the 'risk takers' who make the money.....which is why
most people who work for a TV station don't make much....even when the station
is making good money. You have to decide for yourself what is 'worth' your time
and skills. For me, I just do the same thing Turnhere does, on a local basis and
charge a good deal less than Turnhere charges the end business,.....which still nets
me a LOT more than their measly $225. I just have to buy cheap web hosting and
put together a website. I just figured that I had all the skills to do what Turnhere is
doing, so why not just cut out the middleman?

That is what I was thinking.... whaaaa? Rip off. It might only be worth it if THEY send you clients, not the other way around.

I have also shot two spots for this company. The pay is terribly low (about $30-40 per hour for a full gear shooter once all the time spent is actually totaled up) but there is ZERO post production. Shoot, mail tape. Done.

Granted, I have yet to be paid for the two spots I shot for them. We shall see if they follow through.

Turnhere, Bizclip, Globetrotter, Yellow Taxi, they're EVERYWHERE, I tells ya!

Also something I keep coming across called Genius Rocket, but I think that's a different, though equally weird business model.

Note.... I have no idea if the final productions are any good from Bizclip. and since I have no control over the final edit, I told the clients that I'm just the shooter. Anything can happen in post to change the final product.

I checked out turnhere. It seems like a good way for some folks to pick up some extra cash.

Their videos are not very hard to do. The quality just has to be good enough for web use. That's pretty easy. You don't need thousands of dollars worth of gear. A $200 miniDV cam with a mic-in, $20 tripod (which can also serve as a poor man's steady-cam), a $20 lavaliere mic from Radio Shack, and a $6 mic extension, plus a tape and editing program is pretty much all you need to produce an online yellow pages video.

$30-40 per hour is pretty good pay IMO. I don't know what the actual average pay per project is. I would guess that it depends on your travel if any and if you are fast or slow. I think there's a big problem with many video people. They have the notion that they have to get paid hundreds per hour. Don't get me wrong. It's a great gig if you can get it and more power to you if you are getting it. Just because you spent more on your equipment though doesn't mean you should get more money for a job. Remember, the quality has to be good, not super great. The content and message is what the viewer is going to be focused on. They won't give two s**ts what gear you used.

Jeff

HEAVEN FORBID I should ask for fair remuneration for the professional skills I went to media college for ($10k on my education) and the skills I have picked up in the 30 YEARS I have been taking photos, the 22 years I have been messing with sound and the 20 some-odd years I have been playing with video cameras, professional AND consumer.

Oh, and then there's the $330k invested in gear that I've spent over the past 12 years (albeit some of that is now obsolete and/or retired) that I might want to recoup the cost of.

You're right - I should just sell my gear off, buy a $300 camcorder and shoot and edit crappy video for less than a living wage. What was I thinking?