Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I just got the word from Sony on the official specs of their new 14x zoom lens for the F3. It will be available in November with a list price of $12,200, and sell price for around $10k. The lens is officially called the SCL-Z8x140 and mounts to the camera's 'FZ' (native) mount. New firmware will enable the zoom rocker on the camera.

Here are the specs:

Manual/Auto Iris
Manual/Auto Focus
Manual/Servo Zoom
Auto Flange Back Adjustment
Image Stabilization
Sony Lens Interface
Lens mount: FZ mount (F3 original)
Focal Length: 18 – 252mm (28.7 – 401.8mm 35mm equivalent)
Zoom Ratio: 14x
T-stop: T3.9 (wide) / T6.8 (tele)
Iris Diaphram: 7 blades
Filter Diameter: 82mm
Size:
151.5 (W) x 173.5 (D) x 125.6 (H) mm (Wide)
151.5 (W) x 216.1 (D) x 125.6 (H) mm (Tele)
Weight: 2.25 kg (4.96 lbs) (w/o hood)

Interesting to say the least, I'll let you all be the judge. The T stop change and size change could be a problem for some, but the servo zoom and range is very impressive. Comparing the specs this lens looks very similar to the 18-250 lens that comes with the FS100, with more accurate T stop measurements and all those auto features. The stabilization option is a nice addition as well. I hope to get my hands on the lens in the next couple of weeks.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Specs. are of an amateur lens with a pro lens price.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

With this lens the F3 can serve as an ENG camera. The smaller aperture gives similar DOF to a 2/3 inch camcorder and a similar zoom range. I also find the price very competitive, given the fact the lens is stabilized. A similar lens for 2/3 inch ENG camcorders probably would have cost more.
The F3 emerges as a jack for all trades without serious compromises. You can shoot film, TV drama, documentary and do newsgathering. The small size makes it suitable for 3D and steadicam work as well.
Its the first time in more than 15 years that I'm thinking of buying a camera with such a high price tag. I regularly rent the one most appropriate for the project.
Of course I'll wait for Canon, but I'm tempted.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

For that same zoom lens street price I would rather buy the FS100K with its included 18-200 zoom lens, fully rigged for hand-held work with a nice shoulder support, smallHD DP4-EVF and external recorder with batteries included...

Almost same features and quality for more or less 1/3 of the full price for ENG, News, Sports, Events...

Not the target for the PMW-F3 with SLog, primarily designed to be used with PL primes for mid/high end commercial work.

Just my thoughts.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Sure, after you buy a pile of expensive junk to make it sit on your shoulder correctly. And then some more pricy junk to serve as a viewfinder. At that point you might as well use a real ENG camera with better glass and superior ergonomics and save yourself the agony. This is from a guy that owns both cameras and loves them for different reasons...

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Anyone that's tried to use the FS100K's lens for serious applications will know just how awful it is ergonomically. No iris ring, sluggish, servo driven focus with no markings or repeatability and a stiff zoom ring that can stick and makes smooth zooms hard to accomplish.

While the Z8X140 is not perfect, it's does look to be a half decent all round ENG type lens for the F3 at a fraction of the cost of most comparable true par focal lenses. It doesn't breathe and has an excellent stabiliser.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Hi Alister

The Sony 14x zoom price tag's a bit steep for the moment so I am keen to try your adapter with a 2/3" lens. Are you getting close to selling them, either as a prototype for testing (happy to be guinea pig) or manufactured?

Michael

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

[QUOTE= ... While the Z8X140 is not perfect, it's does look to be a half decent all round ENG type lens for the F3 at a fraction of the cost of most comparable true par focal lenses. It doesn't breathe and has an excellent stabiliser.[/QUOTE]

No doubt the lens in question would suit an ENG scenario, although the aperture shifts could present a problem, but as an F3 owner, it seems clear to me that the F3 is not, and was not intended to be an ENG camera. Yes, I realize that there are all kinds of Rube Goldberg contraptions available that will enable the F3 to be quasi shoulder-mounted, but if what one requires is an ENG camera, why not simply purchase the real thing. In addition, from what I have witnessed on this side of the pond, the F3 represents massive overkill in regards to ENG, when many of the stations are using 1/3 " chips like the small FX Canons and similar.

And then there are the full auto features that undoubtedly bumped up the production cost, but seem to be an odd addition to a presumed professional camera.
So then, how do we define the F3 from a market perspective? Professional, semi-pro, pro-sumer,etc? Certainly the price and features would suggest professional. And where does the aforementioned ENG capable lens fit into the picture, considering that the form-factor of this camera is clearly not ENG friendly?

Just my perhaps naive opinion, but I am open to criticism.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

My adapter is still a little delayed but it is coming.

Shouldn't the lens designation be SCL Z18x14 : SCL (Sony Camera Lens) Z (FZ mount) 18 (widest focal length, 18mm) x 14 (14 x zoom ratio)???

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

That is obviously the case if 99% of a persons work is ENG. But where I suspect this lens will find a market is with people who want the large sensor benefits of the F3 about 75% of the time (and are best suited with primes then), but want something more suited to ENG the rest (the minority) of the time. That's especially true if the servo zoom aspect is important, but it's likely to be on a tripod.

You're right - it's never going to be as suitable for handholding as something like a PMW350.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I think it is a very good opinion. The LAST thing I want to turn my F3 into is an ENG camera. That is exactly what I am trying to get away from. There are a lot of people buying an F3 who would be better served by something as simple as an EX3. I know a few of them personally.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I don't think this lens turns an F3 into an ENG camera? While I love the look of fast PL primes on the F3, I've come across quite a few instances where having a usable long range zoom would have really helped with tight shooting schedules, small crews and tiny budgets.

We all know how good the F3 looks at T2 or in low light, but not every shoot demands the same style or allows the right time for re-sets. I've ordered this lens, not because it'll replace good PL glass, but because it increases the flexibility of what is already a great camera.

I don't know why people should feel threatened by this?

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I for one don't feel threatened by a lens. Why would I? Does it bite? I just don't see the point of people trying to use the F3 for tasks that are better left to other cameras. Why would I possibly want to shoot with a professional lens that is incapable of holding the exposure through the entire zoom range? That is not a zoom. That is just a variable prime. And do I really want to invest $12K on lens with a proprietary mount that only fits one model of camera in the whole world? Suppose Sony decides to go dedicated PL and there is never another camera that uses the F3 mount. Okay, odds are there will be other cameras in the future that use the F3 mount, but that is not a $12K risk I'd take at this time.

F3 + zoom = $25K
F3 + EX3 = $23K

For a fraction of the price of that zoom lens I could buy a brand new EX3 that will outperform a stock F3 with that slow f/6.8 lens mounted on it -- then I'd have two cameras for different tasks, rather than forcing the F3 to be a jack of all trades. Plus I'd have a great B camera when I needed it.

Why would I want to pound a nail with a screw driver, when I can buy a hammer and a screw driver for less money? The right tool for the right job. Now that is real flexibility!

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Good point, Doug.
I recently reconfigured my airline carry-on bag to hold both an F3 and an EX1 for the documentary I'm currently shooting. The F3 is used for the interviews, time lapses and certain other tripod shots, while the EX1 is the run-around camera. Having the second body allows me the luxury of doing certain time lapse shots (or keeping one camera set a certain way) while using the other camera forother types of shooting. Since a certain amout of the filming is being done in refrigerated rooms, having the second camera gives me the advantage of being able to let the first camera temperature acclimate in a bag without having to rush and use it when condensation wants to form.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I do think you're right Doug to consider this lens as a variable prime rather than a zoom, which is partly why it doesn't turn the F3 into an ENG competitor!

I also understand your point about having two camera's for the price of this lens. Unfortunately, for the work I do the EX3 is not regarded as broadcast spec without an external recorder. This means you should also add the cost of an additional recorder, power, and support etc before you can compare the quality to my existing F3 rig. I'm not sure then how carrying and operating this additional kit improves the workflow or operating speed on tight schedules? With your suggestion you'd have two camera's/recorders for different tasks while I'll only need one?

As it happens, I already have a small selection of camera's with which to choose the best tool for the job and sometimes it certainly helps to have a second camera as Dave describes. However, for many reasons, I'm finding that the F3 has become my favourite go-to 'A' cam. In no way am I suggesting replacing PL glass with this lens, just that there are situations where an 18-252mm variable prime could be a very useful tool.

I agree that at 252mm that the SCL-Z8X140 is not the fastest of lenses (it's actually T6.8 not f/6.8), but at the wide end at 18mm it's T3.9. Have you tried adding up what it would cost to cover this range with existing PL zooms? I paid $6,000 for a RED 17-50mm T2.9, which is cheap and very useful, but the flexibility of being able to go longer than 50mm without another lens change is sometimes worth an extra stop just to get the shot.

By using the phrase "forcing the F3 to be a jack of all trades" you're implying that using this lens makes the F3 master of none! In reality, it doesn't change what this camera is already capable of with good glass.

P.S. I think you'll find this lens being sold for quite a bit less than $12,000 !

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Street price is apparently 10 grand (give or take a few dollars).

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Yep - $9697 +Tax is what I'm paying in the UK...
(about the same as a RED 18-85mm T2.9)

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Quote: "Unfortunately, for the work I do the EX3 is not regarded as broadcast spec without an external recorder. "

Well if the EX3 doesn't meet your broadcast specs without an external recorder, then I don't see how the F3 does not either. Both cameras record to the exact same codec on the internal SxS cards. If you require an external recorder on one, then you'd certainly need it on both. Just for the record, I do not feel an external recorder is necessary for either camera, and my own testing has proven that to me and my clients.


Quote: "By using the phrase "forcing the F3 to be a jack of all trades" you're implying that using this lens makes the F3 master of none!"

Yes, with that lens it, that is exactly what I am saying. The F3 is a master of many trades with the right lens -- particulrly if you want a cinematic look. But if you put the wrong lens on it, it becomes an inferior tool for other types of shooting. For ENG work, an EX3 would be a better choice for me -- and that entire camera costs thousands of dollars less than the F3's new zoom lens. Without adding a bunch of third-party accessories, the EX3 has superior hand-held design and a superior viewfinder. It is set to go right out of the box. Also, for ENG work, where extreme shallow DOF is not really neessary, the EX3 would be easier to shoot with.

Are you really going to be able to shoot with just a stock F3 and the new zoom lens? No, you're absolutely going to have to add addtional third party accessories (such as a better viewfinder, shoulder mount, etc) to make the package work in a hand-held configuration. More $$. Of course, you'll need to add those accessories even if you shoot hand-held with a decent prime lens on the F3 too, I'm just saying that the EX3 provides a lot of bang for the buck as a second camera to have when a shooting situation doesn't quite fit what the F3 does best. I'd rather have an EX3 for run & gun and ENG shooting than an F3 with any lens.



Quote: "Street price is apparently 10 grand (give or take a few dollars). "

I don't care if the street price is $12K or $10K. It is the performance of the lens that will keep me from using it on my F3. A couple thousand dollars either way is not important to me. It's still about $2K more than an EX3. Hey, I'm not telling anyone not to buy this lens when it becomes available, I'm just voicing my opinion of why it is not right for my F3 and bringing up some points that other people may not have considered. That's what this forum is for. If you like it and it meets your needs, go for it. I already own other cameras for ENG-type work. My F3 is for a different style of shooting, and THAT zoom lens would totally negate the reason I would be shooting with the F3 in the first place.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Well said.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

There's an awkward and ever-growing gap between camera and lens advancements and pricing, and this is yet another example. S35 sensor cameras have plunged rapidly in price, thanks to the RED1 (if that had not happened, you can bet that Sony would not have a pro-level camera available for under $20K) but there is a physical limit to what is possible to do with inexpensive optics. There's a reason that cine-style zooms are large and heavy and expensive, and Moore's Law doesn't apply here. It will continue to frustrate those who feel that lenses should track downwards in price in concert with cameras, as well as those who dream of a compact broadcast style lens for a S35 or larger sensor.

I have a sense that down the road, we will start to see cheaply produced and flawed lenses emerge that rely on the camera to "fix" their issues, be they distortion, tracking or aberrations. Harnessing ever-expanding processing power makes a lot more sense than trying to re-write the laws of physics and produce a more sophisticated lens than has ever been built for a fraction of the money--generally it goes the other way. Lens science is being pushed forward in a big way but the dollar figures will remain high for many people. I'm working with the Alura zooms on my current show and they are beautiful lenses for the money (approximately half as much as the prior generation) but still out of grasp for many users.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

You are absolutely correct. I'd need two external recorders which is the very point I was making. I also agree that an external recorder isn't strictly necessary as the 35mb/s SxS codec is so good. However, if you want to deliver HD productions for broadcast BBC or ITV in the UK, 50mb/s is a minimum technical requirement. It's doesn't really matter what testing we've done or what your clients think!

The phrase is: "Jack of all trades, master of none" - I'm sorry but putting what you call the wrong lens on an F3 doesn't take away it's capabilities with other lenses... that doesn't make any sense? It's just another lens choice which means you don't need to carry two camera's.

You seem stuck on the notion that people will only buy this lens for ENG work. I've already said I don't think it's usable as an ENG zoom. I totally agree, that if you just want to self shoot ENG, an EX3 would be a better bet out of the box.

Absolutely, I will be able to add this new lens to my existing F3 set-up without any additional cost? The aim is to give me and my clients more choice of glass, not to shoot ENG.

I wouldn't dream of giving a News crew an F3 with this lens... it's just not suitable. And if you have the time and money then fast PL primes are obviously going to give a better look. However, for many users, an 18-252mm variable prime, (even at T3.9 - T6.8), is going to provide shooting options that just aren't available for the F3 any other way right now.

It's all just our opinion, as none of us have seen how well this lens works on the F3 yet, it's difficult to judge. But as you say, no ones forcing you to buy it and other options are available!

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Charles - your points are spot on.

The physical limits of what we can do with glass and light have probably put quite a restriction on the mass adoption of large sensor camera's. Apart from manufacturers papering over cheap lens faults with technical tricks, we may also see the cost of some lenses drop simply because of market demand. If S35 cinema lenses start selling in thousands rather than hundreds, it would be nice to see some economies of scale filtering through to customers as well?

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Deleted double post - apologies!

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Paul, Sony has already offered to send me a demo lens just as soon as they can. Perhaps you will see me on this board next month backtracking on everything I have said. Maybe it is a terrific lens that I won't be able to live without. But one thing is sure, I won't hold back speaking my mind no matter what I think of it. For now, I am keeping an open mind.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

You hit the nail on the head.

We already have access to amazing 'Pro' level glass at low prices, but they are made for photography. The *key* to lower prices is supply and demand. With S35 cameras becoming ever more popular and accessible to lower budget projects, there will need to be more supply of affordable cine lenses. Red already uses other companies' lenses and rehouses them; so, its just a matter of time until Canon and Sony take their own SLR lenses and rehouse them for affordable cine lenses. Or another company like Duclos pops up and becomes a master of adapting SLR lenses for cinematography. However, many SLR lenses do need some reworking to remove breathing, barrel extension during zooming (ie., all great 24-70 lenses) and make zooms parfocal.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I had the chance to see the 14x lens and play with it just a bit a the Photo Plus expo in NYC. Big big lens. I will have a chance to shoot it for a couple of days along with the new SR-1 recorder and at that point will be able to share some impressions. Will definitely be useful in handheld work. More in a few weeks...

Ned

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Seems to me a simpler alternative is to get a broadcast HD B4 (2/3") lens and add that adapter from Abel Cine or the one that Alister is making. You lose 2 stops but your still at least even with the Sony lens and it should be a more even f stop through the range. Although its about 5" long its probably still lighter and smaller than the Sony.
However an HD broadcast lens is well more than $10K to buy as I recall though I don't know about used these days. Quite cheap to rent though when you need one.
Haven't seen the Sony but it probably does have some more typically Cine PL characteristics like not breathing or longer focus thrown and gears for follow focus etc.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Here's a FD article that has photos of the zoom lens in a possible hand held rig. It sort of gives a sense of the size.

New Sony 18-252 mm Zoom | Film and Digital Times: News

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

with the best looking promotion "girls“ ever. just a side note.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I can't wait to see what the images look like through this lens. It'll be interesting to compare picture quality to Doug's EX3? I've now been told to expect delivery 1st week in December, so I'm not holding my breath for anytime this year!

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

That's the same rig I played with at Photo Plus. In fact, the journalist who wrote the article had the press appointment before me. He also photographed me holding the rig, but I wasn't as compelling a subject as the Japanese women.

Week after next when I have the rig for a couple of days I'll post some shots.

Ned

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

More pics from Sony...
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...1&d=1319889351

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

The EX1 heritage really shows there, doesn't it?

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Yes, Duke. Lens looks exactly like the EX lens except it is one big monster.

As I said, more after I have it for a day or two.

Ned

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Anyone had the chance to play with the lens anymore?

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

I'm looking at it right now but it goes back in the AM.

I'll be writing a more complete review of the lens as well as of the SR R1 HDCAM SR solid state recorder later in the week,

It is a big and I mean big lens. Same controls as EX lenses. With 1.2 firmware (still to be released) rocker zoom works and choice of auto or manual as well as SteadyShot stabilization. Not a lot of contrast. Not a lot of detail. Respectable lens to make the F3 more of a run and gun or ENG type camera. Keep the perspective then, and if those functions are what you need, this lens will do it.

No lens markings. But if you're shooting ENG, distance is less critical than if shooting cinema. Short focus throw makes pulling focus very hard. But, then again, this is an ENG lens.

Another option is the 2/3" lens adapter from Abel and buy a used 2/3" lens.

Keep in mind the lens has a list of $12,200 and aprox street of $9900. Sony is offering a $1500 rebate for early F3 adopters (don't know when the cut off is) so that brings your cost down to $8400.

Ned

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Looking forward to your review Ned! Where can we find the review when you write it?

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Ned, can you check for the iris stepping as opposed to being smooth. So far I have only played with pre-production units and these have all stepped. I've been told the production units should be smooth.

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

My unit was also preproduction. It stepped.

Ned

Re: Sony 14x Zoom Lens SCL-Z8X140
 

Ned's Review

Going Handheld with the Sony F3Ned Soltz, Ned Soltz, Ned Soltz

Do you have any sample footage from your shoot or any screen grabs Ned?