New motherboard?

And to think that I was buing mine only a couple months ago, and was considering another one with PCI-Express, but didn't see any immediate use for it:(.

Further about practical aspects: suppose I'm taking the EX out for a trip in Africa for a couple of weeks; not having the old, good tape recording/archiving option, what am I supposed to do apart from taking an ExpressCard-capable laptop, and the PDW-U1 with a bunch of Pro Disks with me?

Cause even with the SxS card pricing being lower than P2's, it's still too expensive to buy them by dozens!

Drag and drop using FAM connection with a firewire lead like you do with the current XDCAM system.

Let's hope the EX will have the possibility to directly connect to:

PDW-U1 USB XDCAM HD DISC READER/WRITER
Remember, you don't actually need to buy a deck if you are on a budget as the XDCAM HD camcorders transfer to/from computer via FAM (file transfer mode) FireWire at speeds of less than half real time. If you can't afford a deck, but would like another option as opposed to using your camcorder - which might be in the field - then you could opt for the brand new PDW-U1. The PDW-U1 is a new USB drive that reads and writes to Sony's Professional XDCAM HD Optical Disc. This little device is simply stunning, as well as incredibly compact; about the size of a small external FireWire hard drive such as the LaCie models. The PDW-U1 has the following features: USB 2.0 interface, single optical head with Max read of 120Mbps, support for phase1, 2 and 3 media, dual-layer ready, multiple file access, and bundled software utilities including PDZ-1 for Windows, PDZ-VX10 viewer for Windows, PDZK-P1 transfer software for Mac and utility firmware upgrade for Windows and Macintosh. The PDW-U1 will be available to buy in September for around £1800 list price.

PDW-U1 Specifications
USB 2.0 interface
Single optical head (120Mbps max read speed)
Supports all announced XDCAM media
Dual layer ready
Multiple file access
Free included software for Mac and PC

Then in your example you only need 2 SxS cards and a bunch of 23/50 GB Professional disks.

How would it connect to the PDW-U1 drive? Via USB? Didn't notice an USB port on the new cam, but OK - that's possible. However, I still think a computer will be necessary between XDCAM EX and the Pro Disc drive...

Don't get me wrong: I'm not complaining about the EX; on the contrary - I think it's very promising. However, it's supposed to be a compact camcorder; this implies mobility, and one cannot be truly mobile without means of dumping footage from the flash media every hour or two! So, as the B camera for a full XDCAM setup - great; as a traveller's companion - a no-go, I'm afraid! Not until the ExpressCard holding full hour of HQ HD price is similar to a miniDV tape. When? Yeah, perhaps sooner that we could imagine - but not tomorrow!

Menu Structure.
 

I must say this camera looks extremely promising. I am not sure if broadcasters ( ENG ) would accept footage from this as, the format (sxs) is not within their work flow structure ( well not for now at least). For the indie guy, an absolute winner. The PDW- U1, is going to be also a warm welcome, as in the past Sony's recording and playback machines were exceptionally high in price and the average man in the street couldn't afford them ( except for DVCAM) so HD for the masses.

Could anyone answer if, it will have a menu structure like the F330. Detail, Gamma, full Colour Matrix adjustable colour temp etc... and not of the likes of the hvx200 with a very stripped down menu and colour temp represented as + & -'s and not as kelvins.

The format is XDCAM HD codec like the big brother cameras. Only the recording media has changed. I suspect there are, or will be, express card adapters to ingest into a system without an express card interface built in, albeit at the expense of transfer speed. Any broadcaster or network that can accept XDCAM HD material, will be able to work with this camera's material once it gets ingested.

As to your menu question, I didn't have a chance to go into the menus in my brief hands-on with the camera.

-gb-

Simon, you mean firewire between the EX camera and a PC, right? This still leaves open the question of copying from SxS do HDD when the camera is in field, I'm afraid.

Well since most HD editing systems need a dual core system or at least a pretty good single chip it is safe to say that most HD editing systems should already have PCI Express.

PCI Express is the new standard and pretty much any motherboard built within the last two years will have at least one PCI Express slot. If you bought a motherboard a month ago that had no PCI Express slots it either is an ultra cheap quality motherboard or a very very old model. I cannot even find a motherboard anymore that has no PCI Express slots unless it is for an older single chip system such as a P4 Prescott or Northwood chip.

The only other motherboards which have no PCI Express slots are those designed for AGP video cards. Again however most of those motherboards are for older styles of chips and hardware and really are not the norm for HD editing systems.

Thomas, it's my understanding that Express Card 34 is different than PCI-e slot connectors on a motherboard. Express Card 34, is the PCMCIA replacement and is found on the newer laptop computers such as the Macbook Pro.

-gb-

Greg, The reply above was about a adpater I found to add a Express card slot to a desktop computer using a PCI Express slot. I posted a link to the adapter above which costs $59.00. Piotr's post was asking what people would do if their desktop computer didn't have any PCI Express slots for the adapter.

Express Card/34 SSD and connection to computer
 

Perhaps I am missing something here but is this the most simple solution? : http://www.transcendusa.com/Press/in...690&axn=Detail

Look at the second paragraph last sentence: "Moreover, Transcend’s ExpressCard/34 SSD comes bundled with a portable USB adapter, which makes it work as a regular USB flash drive. "

The way I read this - put the card in the adaptor and the USB 2.0 into the computer and you are up and running - or is this not what they meant? Once your XDCAM files are on the computer (desktop or laptop) then write them to the storage discs via PDW-U1 connected by USB 2.0?

Yes, you are correct. However Sony have not said whether or not there might be other support devices. If you copied to another XDCAM device such as the U1 using the FAM connection then your data would be as safe as houses on an XDCAM disc instead of a hard drive.

The U1 would connect to the laptop at the same time as the EX. Then you would use the PDZ-1 software to perform an XDCAM device to XDCAM device transfer.

What would be ideal however would be if Sony made an XDCAM disc backup device that didn't require a connection to a laptop.

Barry,

This makes sense, but the consequence is you need a notebook to transfer your data from the SxS card to the notebook and then to Pro Disks. It would be preferable to have a USB2 connector on the EX and being able to directly transfer to Pro disk and leave out the notebook. Let's make that a feature request.

Exactly ...This is what dictates the camera operators life in the world of shooting (except indie of course )and buying gear can be such a risk. You can only go with what broadcasters and post houses accept no matter how good a format / medium may be...
Here in the UK i havent seen that many XDCAM HD formats, also JVC pro HD is hardly mentioned !

Although I see the BBC embracing this camera for their tapeless solutions and am sure every other broadcaster will follow suit, then the post houses and freelance operators, it always seems to follow this pattern.

The Z1 (recording in SD) did phenomenally well here in the broadcast sector over the hvx200 and JVC GY HDxxx series . Now Sony has brought out essesntially an HD Solid State Z1 or mini 330 which everway you look at it, these will be sold out before they hit the shelves guaranteed.


to be honest if this thing has a colour matrix and detailed menu section, then it could be calibrated via DSC Charts to intercut with any of its bigger brothers or even transfer scene files ! BTW does it have access memory stick access ? ( deep breaths Stil, deep breaths)

Thomas - silly me! Of course you're right; my Asus P5W-DH Deluxe does have PCI-Express slots (as about all modern motherboards do). What I gave up when choosing this mobo was PCI-X on another one from Tyan; I confused the two interfaces. Thanks!

The PDZ-1 software makes the copying of files to another XDCAM device seamless and automatic. No need to manually copy files to the laptop and then copy them again to the U1.

Simon, I have just read your excellent article on XDCAM workflow advantages on your webpage. I got even more excited, thank you! But now that I know more about it, I'm even more certain Sony would make a mistake of spoiling the almost perfect XDCAM workflow potential for the EX users, if they didn't make it possible to load off from the camera to the U1 directly (via USB, using camera software - without the need for a computer). With this capability, the lack of the Professional Disc in the camera would not create any problems, while allowing for the small and compact form factor. Once written to the U1 even in field, the video would get safely archived, and could than be worked upon in exactly the same, smart and efficient way the XDCAM can be by default. I hope Sony is listening - it's not too late!

Very exciting new opportunities with the EX. It will dramatically change a lot in the business and many of us can benefit from that.
I wonder in the same time what is being cooked at Canon's kitchen today. Very silent, as usually - but they might come out with a competitor product. They obviously have to move towards tapeless solutions otherwise their cams would become obsolete (given the price point their high end cam positioned to).
I wont be surprised if they would launch tapeless solution with interchangeable Canon lenses (and adaptor for Canon still lens range). That would be a very interesting situation given EX will have fixed lens.

Or conversely, what about a portable tape recorder that could create a simultaneous archive of whatever you were shooting with the XDCAM ex? It would be nice to have a cheaper archive media option. I'm sure XDCAM disks are good long-term archival options for edited masters, but at $30 per hour-long XDCAM disk vs. $3 per hour-long DV/HDV tape, it's less attractive for long-form documentary, for example.

Is there any reason you COULDN'T record an XDCAM signal to a DV/HDV tape? What comes out of that firewire port on the XDCAM EX camera? Downconverted DVCAM, OR HD imx? How about the HD-SDI port?

Or, how about consumer Blu-Ray disks?

The tape mechanism and the logic behind it allows for 25 Mbps streams on DV/HDV (only in CBR), not the HQ 35 Mbps XDCAM streams. The firewire port on the EX delivers a 35 Mbps VBR MPEG stream, captured through FAM.

It doesn't stream footage in FAM mode. FAM mode is a file transfer mode whereby your PC or Mac treats the camera or other XDCAM device like an additional drive. You then drag and drop the files like you would with any other hard drive or CD/DVD etc.

I see a period when some clients may continue to want delivery on tape, whilst others may prefer it file based, whether via SxS, Firestore or whatever. My suggestion was to have some tapeless benefits, without the capital outlay on a new camera, and at the same time become compatible with anyone else using SxS. Compared to a conventional Firestore, one based around SxS should use less power, and if you have more than one card the first card could be taken away to begin editing whilst filming continues on a second card.

Sorry, incorrect use of words, glad for the correction. It is one thing to talk about the way data are recorded, another to talk about the transfer of these files.

EX form factor
 

Being new to the XDCAM technology, I've been wondering: why does the EX camera need such a bulky body? I mean - not having a tape or disc mechanism - it could basically consist of the lens and battery, with the chassis just big enough to accept two SxS ExpressCards... Can anyone shed some light on what the fat, boxy rear part of it must have room for, apart from those tiny PCB's?

Well I think given that the cards are fairly long would be one reason.
Plus there's a fair amount of electronics in there, all the audio gear seems to be at the rear, then there's the HD-SDI circuitry and the battery goes in sideways so probably not a lot of wiggle room in the end.

Also this camera seems designed to take follow focus gear, both the focus and iris rings have real teeth, yippee! If and when you put a matte box and FF gear on the front the body width will not look out of place.

One comment I did make to the nice engineer from Sony, the dang XLRs are in the wrong place. Sony finally got it right on the Z1 and have since gone backwards. However given that the lens seems to be driven by an external servo motor maybe they had no choice.

Other thing that no one seems to have picked up. It looks like the only video output is HD-SDI, so if want to hookup an external monitor it's going to have to have a HD-SDI input which means not cheap. Not that I'm complaining, for the quality this camera looks set to deliver I couldn't see much point in doing otherwise.

Just to get more than a bit off topic. Sony also have a HDV version of the PD 250 in the works, at last. 3 hours of HDV to tape should keep quite a few of us very happy.
Even more off topic and price range, a 2/3" 4:2:2 Cinealta XDCAM camera at around $50K. That's a very good offering also.

To get back on topic, the EX has another small but significant change from the usual Sony practice, the DC power connector is non proprietary. A 4 pin XLR would have been nicer but added a lot of bulk.

Looking at Chris' pics it doesn't seem to be very big:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=79

Chris, how big is it compared to a V1 or Z1?

It's just a little larger than the Z1. I'd say that the size relationship between the Z1 and the EX is similar to the relationship between the V1 and the Z1.

...and since the size relationship between the Z1 and V1 is quite considerable, the EX is quite bulky, after all - which confirms my first impression.

Oh, and one more, Boyd - do you think Bob is right in his assumptions it doesn't offer any outputs besides the i.LINK and HD-SDI? No component, HDMI - nothing to just plug in and watch on a regular HDTV?

I agree with Bob on why it's so wide. They have the ExpressCards slotting in from the side so it has to be at least as wide as the cards are long, plus a little extra for the connector, circuit board and camera body. The ExpressCard/34 are 75mm long (about 3") so add that something extra and the camera is probably about 4"-4.5" wide (I'm guessing). The back of the V1U on the other hand, is much narrower, being just a little wider than the width of the battery, because the tape transport is in the handgrip.

Bob, I don't think the focus ring has any gears, though.

I hope that there will be a component analog option similar as the Z1U or V1U. My HD field monitor accepts only component video ($2500) and it would be expensive (again) to have to get a different field monitor. I can understand why Sony would do this, I just hope the don't (I guess I can always pick up a HD-SDI to component convertor...)

Todd

It will be a while before flash memory is affordable enough to serve as permanent storage for most of us, but that's okay. HVX200 users have gotten by with P2 cards which cost as much as $150 per minute of recording time, so if SxS cards are ~$100-200 per hour initially that will be acceptable.

One good thing about XDCAM HD footage is that is should (in theory) be playable from Blu-ray discs, meaning you could use those for long-term archiving and playback. This would make XDCAM HD the highest-quality video format which can be stored and played in its native form on widely available consumer players, making it a good solution for something like library or museum exhibits. Has anyone tried putting XDCAM HD footage on a Blu-ray disc yet?

Well, that's the key, obviously (and probably my main objection to the HVX200). How much will SxS cards cost? The fact that Sony is developing the format with SanDisk is a good sign, since it means that it won't be a completely proprietary format -- hopefully, some competition between manufacturers will help keep prices down. I'm seeing standard forms of flash memory selling for about $10 a gigabyte, so maybe $160-200 for a 16gb SxS card is in the realm of possibility.

I like the consumer Blu-Ray idea.

It would be really sweet, though, if it were possible to backup directly to a portable hard disk or RAID+1 array through the camera's onboard firewire port, without a computer. A couple of 500gb SATA hard drives in removable trays and a standalone firewire SATA RAID+1 storage device might be just the ticket until flash and Blu-Ray come down enough in price to be practical.

Brian, that's totally contradictory to the idea of XDCAM. It's file based and one has to start thinking more along the lines of how you work with pictures from a digital still camera. Of course you can back up to a hard drive, but there's no need to do the RAID thing because you simply drag and drop. When used correctly, XDCAM is a very efficient system in terms of long term data storage. If you use the Professional Discs (based on blu-ray), the archival life is estimated to be 50 years. And that is what Sony's philosophy is WRT the XDCAM HD EX. You write to flash, and archive to Professional Disc. At roughly $25/disc street price, it makes a very affordable long term archival system.

-gb-

Given that any decent portable media device is likely to cost as much as a cheap laptop, why not use the latter? Pay $500 or so for the laptop and attach a bus-powered USB2 drive with 160 GB capacity and you're ready to go for at least 10 hours of XDCAM HD footage. If the laptop doesn't come with an ExpressCard slot, there will probably be external SxS card readers available for a few bucks.

Even if the cards are around the same price as a P2 card (which I do not think will happen) We have to remember that with this camera we will always be able to do almost 3x or more the amount of recording time compared to a P2 based system.

35mbits compared to 100 mbits means almost 3x the amount of footage.
25mbits compared to 100 mbits equals 4x the amount of footage.

These means for X amount of recording time the P2 system will always cost at least 3x more.

right now P2 suffers from the fact that it is very very hard to shoot long form projects since the recording time is so low. With the XDCAM Ex camera we at least are able to record for about the same amount of time as a mini DV tape or maybe even more. Swapping cards every hour is not as bad as swapping cards every 16 minutes.

I know I for one would be ok if the cards started out at the same price as P2 cards because I know I will get 3x the amount of recording time for that same price. I of course would be happier if they were cheaper. Even if they are not cheaper however we are already getting so much more recording time then what P2 could ever do.

To be fair, the HVX200 has many recording options with varying bit rates, and many folks appear to be using 720p/24n at ~40 Mbps. So the HVX200 will also soon be getting a boost in recording capacity to as much as two hours on two 16GB P2 cards in a commonly used recording mode.

The problem with P2 is that the memory cards use a specialized, low-volume design which can't compete with other flash memory options in terms of price. Since the SxS cards appear to be based on more standardized technology (just in a different form factor), they should be substantially cheaper than P2 and hence more practical for long-form recording. The apparent matching move from Panasonic will be to record AVC-Intra footage at bit rates similar to XDCAM HD on standard flash memory cards. Next year should be exciting for those who want tapeless recording but don't care for P2.

You're right, my bad!

Still this is one almost disruptive camera. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you couldn't even buy a SD camera with 1/2" chips and glass at this price point, ever. Where does this leave the Z1 and V1 cameras?

OK, this EX looks to come in at double the price (Under $8K was what I was told) but I'd reckon a lot of us who were going to spring $4K for a V1/Z1 will be mighty tempted to save some pennies and buy this camera instead. Those 1/2" chips have got to offer very significant advantages over 1/3". Shallower DOF is one, lower noise is another and perhaps the most important. Less noise makes for more bandwidth for the mpeg-2 encoder to expend on real image data.

The other thing that gets me drooling is the variable frame rates, 720p50 sounds pretty sweet but this would seem to imply there'll only be one variant of the camera, no R50 and R60 version.

I suspect there's more going on with Sony than just this one camera. With some bravado I asked the price of the new XDCAM 4:2:2 2/3" beast and was told "around $40K". Now that's a big wad of cash for most of us but that was very close to what I was quoted for a F350 six months ago down here. Add to that their new minimalist XDCAM drive and XDCAM has suddenly become way more affordable. And there's even more, likely. A Sony Canada rep told me there were serious plans to market an internal SATA XDCAM drive at an even lower price, that gets rid of the USB2 speed limitation and makes the XDCAM disk a possible viable general purpose storage medium.

Now I know for most of us $30K is as unaffordable as $40K but these price drops, if they are real, do have a more significant impact in the rental market. Many of the smaller rental companies just cannot afford to carry cameras beyond a certain price point. Drop the price of a camera by a sizeable margin and the knock on effect in the rental market can lead to a significant improvement in affordability for those renting.

Also, with every other format I can remember, Sony has always made a very careful distinction between "Prosumer/Consumer" and "Professional/Broadcast" formats. (Think Betacam vs. BETA-SP, DV vs. DVCAM, HDV vs. HDCAM, etc.)

This camera has the potential to shatter that line, since it looks to be priced for the prosumer market, yet uses the identical format as their professional and broadcast cameras. Until now, I've often heard that broadcast engineers try to discourage the use of prosumer formats like DV or HDV. Given that the broadcast industry, however, is increasingly turning to XDCAM (see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=92196), it's going to be a lot tougher for them to turn down XDCAM footage from one of these cams.

I think you're right, Bob. This could really shake things up.

Oh yeah, I understand the value of archiving to XDCAM disks. But, as a self-financed, independent documentary filmmaker, I'm going to have to think long and hard about spending $1100 to archive 44 hours of original footage onto XDCAM disk vs. the $132 it costs me to keep it on DV tape. That's almost an order of magnitude difference in archival costs.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the camera or the format. I'm just looking for the cheapest, most reliable archival method that will fit in my budget. Hard drives seem to be the only option right now in my price range. I've had too many single hard drives fail to be comfortable trusting irreplaceable footage to that alone. That's why I'm thinking about RAID +1 or cloning duplicate HDs as an alternative to XDCAM disks for large volumes of material.

And I sure hope Kevin's right about USB or Firewire SxS readers becoming available. That would save springing for a new laptop with ExpressCard slots!