I’m going to also add that this portable recorder should not only have a memory card slot for immediate transfers to an XDCAM disc but also to standard Blu-Ray discs so that you can play it on your Blu-Ray player.

It wouldn’t be too expansive because it wouldn’t need a built in LCD screen. While having the device hooked up to the XDCAM EX, you view the material off the camera’s LCD screen.


Since Sony is only indicating that it’ll be priced below 8,000 dollars, I think their waiting to see what Panasonic has in the works so I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony releases it for 7,000 dollars with a 16 gig card.

One thing that appears to be missing over the bigger XDCAM HD cams is the 4 channel audio.

I would love to have 4 channel audio - even if it's stereo from the built-in mic plus two XLR inputs..

Yup true.

Im going to be very interested in the development of this cameras lens, i said to myself when i bought my z1 that it'd be last fixed lens i ever bought and the next camera was going to have real glass (ala pdw350 or dsr450), and after working with panny SPX800s on OB's for the past 6 months I still am trying to stick to that comment.

However, if we can get some real stops on this lens.. the fixed aspect might not be so much of an issue.

My sentiments, too.

I'm still intrigued by the "release" button near the record trigger...

Well, if that's the case then I must say the top one looks a lot nicer than the one on the bottom.

I agree, The top one looks very nice, the bottom one looks like a digital back with a lens attached

... the top ones effectively a slightly mod'd Z1...

Answered at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....7&postcount=39

Thanks Chris.

Is it mentioned what kind of outputs it will have (component, hd-sdi, hdmi)?

I'd think HDMI, but keep in mind, it's flash-based, so maybe only firewire. But Sony is pushing HDMI in their new HDV units.

heath

The photos of the Unit shown at NAB show it has HD-SDI.

You can see that in this photo which Chris attached in another thread. - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachmen...1&d=1176712062

Keep in mind this unit is still only a mockup unit however.

So Sony does have a portable XDCAM drive, the PDW-U1. I know it reads and writes to the discs by using a computer but does anybody know if I would be able to hook up the XDCAM EX to this without a computer to transfer the footage from memory card to Blu-ray?

idearly, what sony should do, is a P2 store like device that is effectively the PDW-U1, that has an SxS card reader in it. One touch transfer from SxS to XD disc would be very nice.

A possible future XDCAM EX product for the line up? i can only dream.

That’s what I said to
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.ph...181#post662181


If Sony doesn’t have such a unit already planned then they better work on one. I predict a big percentage of people who plan on buying the XDCAM EX will also buy this unit.

I sincerely hope that we can get our hands on this camera before at least November

I posted on another thread about this camera. I had one in my hands yesterday for about 10 minutes. This iS NOT a mockup. I powered up the camera and worked it for a few minutes but I had no media to record on. It is subject to being tweaked before final release so I would call this a pre-production unit. IIRC, I saw 81.5mm on the barrel for full tele.

The only thing I noticed (again this is a pre-production unit), was that it seemed to take longer than expected from flicking on power until the camera was ready to go.

Weight wise, about the same as a Z1. Very well balanced. I did the one finger under the handle trick and the camera sat perfectly level. It also looks like Sony crammed as many switches and controls on the body as they could to avoid having to go into menus.

This is an excellent b-camera to the bigger size disc cameras. The idea is to record on flash, then archive to Professional Disc.

Exciting times, these are!

-gb-

Thanks Greg.

I definitely hope that this comes out in Sept. (I go into filming in Oct. for a feature film using the V1U... I'd much rather go the XDCAM EX way).

I need to ask the guys over at Redrock Micro if their M2 will work with a 1/2" sensor (I know they didn't 'support' 2/3" cams, but that's a different topic anyway...).

Todd

Well in the presentation they said it would be available "by the end of the year." Unfortunately, that rarely means November or September but I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Yeah, I figured their release time would be more like Dec. I remember that the V1U was supposed to be released earlier than it did (I got mine in Mid-Dec.), but I guess there's no harm in hoping...

Better yet, how about an external USB card reader for the SxS cards? Take a card out of your camera, connect it to a computer with a high-resolution monitor and watch full-quality rushes instantly at XDCAM HD quality. Or just do that on a laptop using a built-in ExpressCard slot, which seems to be what they have in mind.

P.S. If this is like previous Sony camera releases, I'd guess we'll see early shipments in late November or early December with volume shipments the following Spring.

I saw this camera just yesterday at NAB. Here were my notes from the demo:

1) 1/2' CMOS chips. Better low light performance using less power.
2) The camera had "cinealta" written on the side, does that just mean 24 fps(?) or is that some proprietary sony thing(?)
3) The cards. Panasonic has proprietary cards the Sony people said that their system will not be. possible to use third-party cards in their camera.
4) HDV
5) HD-SDI out
6) Bulky, has fixed lens but has all the manual controls.
7) 1080p
8) under $8,000!
9) aimed at the wedding video, event and crash cam market. But they think that some news outlets will use them as B-roll cams.
10) no mention of indie filmmakers.

I liked it. Looks like a sony version of HVX200. I thought it was a bit bulky. They didn't really have that much footage to show.

It's not coming out until the end of the year, so I would look for the Panasonic response. I have a feeling it was making them anxious. While I was in line to see the HVX200, I mentioned it to the guy in the line ahead of me. A panasonic guy overheard and read me the riot act.

He told me all the problems with sony HDV, 4:2:0 sampling, if needed I needed camera now there's no choice but Panasonic, Apple work flow... etc... etc... I don't want to overstate it, but they were a bit touchy about the subject.

Are there even any express card adapters for desktop based computers? Newer laptops have the slots but what options will we have for our main editing systems?

35 mbits/s mpeg2 is not HDV. Panasonic is trying to play down the format and make other people think it is as good as HDV which it is not. That would be like trying to call DVCPRO50 just DV because they are both the same exact style of compression. All DVCPRO50 is is a form of DV that has a higher bitrate and better chroma detail. XDCAMHD is a higher bitrate form of mpeg2 then what HDV is.

In almost every situation you could ever shoot in the 35mbit XDCAMHD footage is just as good if not better then the current style of DVCPROHD running at 100mbits. For that level of quality you get almost 3X the amount of video per gigabyte in terms of storage space.

About the only advantage Panasonic still has with the HVX200 is that it records 4:2:2 color which unless you plan on doing any keying isn't going to blow you away. Yes 4:2:2 can have slightly better color precision but most people with real world footage would never notice. If 4:2:0 is done well it can look very good.

Now if SONY would have added the 50 mbit 4:2:2 mode to this new camera it would totally blow away the HVX200. I can see why Panasonic would be a bit touchy.

Sony XDCam EX's LCD screen & Chip Imagers
 

From the pictures I have seen it looks like the LCD placement is similar to the Z1 & FX1 cameras; a feature I really liked. I talked to a sony rep & he said that it was undisclosed at this time as to what type of sensors it will have ie. CCD's or CMOS. I wish they would have put a DV tape transport along with the card slots for easy cheap recording; but oh well.

Joel brooks
Moments in Time Video Productions

http://www.psism.com/expressadapter.htm

Never mind I already found a Express Card adapter for desktop PC's for only $59.00. Not bad for a cheap capture/transfer drive.

Sorry Joel, anything branded XDCAM will not have tape associated with it.

-gb-

I don't know if you saw the thread Thomas, but just about a month ago, a gentleman posted here that they had bought an F330 for their tv station's production department. He was blown away by how clean the keying was in the 4:2:0 video.

-gb-

Some very good options by the look of it - http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-comput...grate-desktops !!

And I also feel the 4:2:2 v 4:2:0 argument is getting very thin. These numbers are just ratios, and it is far more instructive to look at actual pixel matrices - just how many Y,U,V samples there are in a frame. 4:2:2 sounds a lot better, but it should never be forgotten that for 720p DVCProHD the "4" is referencing 960 horizontally, not 1280. Hence only 480 horizontal chroma samples - NOT the 640 that may be imagined.

I take many of these numbers arguments very lightly. I find it more significant that SxS is based on ExpressCard, whilst P2 is based on a form factor which is rapidly disappearing (Cardbus). That is beyond dispute or argument. As appears to be that SxS will be much cheaper per GB.

And to quote from the article linked above: "Expresscards effectively extend the PCI-Express bus to peripherals, where the old PC Cardbus slot extends the PCI bus." That's a pretty big advantage.

What does remain to be seen is when Sony may bring out a 2/3" SxS camera. That really should put the cat amongst the pigeons.

To me it always felt like Panasonic had not quite drained the think tank all the way when they came up with their tapeless media.

There are five things that people want in a medium - recording capacity, affordability, reliability, ease of access to recorded content, archivability.

Unfortunately P2 sacrificed several of those criteria to give a slight improvement in reliability and (theoretical) ease of access to content.

Sony's XDCAM HD on disc is a really well though-out system as it improves on every single on of those criteria over tape.

Personally I think Panasonic would have been better off with hard-drive cartridges and a large buffer.

Guys I am totally on your side about 4:2:0 not being that bad. The only reason I brought it up is that it will be the only point Panasonic will be able to try and make.

Greg, I work with visual effects footage all the time and I agree with you. 4:2:0 can be very very clean if the right tools are used. I have keyed some 4:2:0 material that totally blew even me away. I am a compositing artist and I used to be a hardcore freak about 4:2:2 and even 4:4:4 video. I do still prefer 4:2:2 over 4:2:0 if I have the option but I will not cry over 4:2:0 if that is what is given to me. While the 4:2:0 on XDCAM does give great results the 4:2:2 version of XDCAM is even better yet if you can believe it. I have worked with a lot of 50 mbit 4:2:2 and 80 mbit 4:2:2 footage to see the results that it is better for keying. Really though it is a small advantage and in the end only really comes down to slightly cleaner and sharp edges.

Exactly Thomas. I knew you weren't making a really big deal about it, but I wasn't aware that you did a lot of compositing work. Always good to hear from those actually working with the stuff. Your comments make at least two cases for clean keys in 4:2:0. Besides, green is always full bandwidth chroma sampling, while red and blue are subsampled. This is why green screen work is fairly easy because the camera records highly detailed green information. That, coupled with the higher resolution of HD vs. SD to differentiate small detail areas in the scene are what I believe makes it possible to pull such clean keys.

-gb-

Before putting the colour sampling issue to rest (finally, I hope) it has always been my understanding that 4:2:2 (v 4:2:0) has more point in an interlace system than in a progressive one, simply because with 4:2:0 interlace there would be two chroma samples on adjacent lines (fields 1 and 2), then two lines with no chroma for the same reason.

In a progressive system, that argument doesn't apply, and 4:2:0 then means halving the chroma resolution relative to luma horizontally and vertically - the system is balanced. And compared to 4:2:2, I can see merit in reallocating the "lost" vertical pixels to extra luminance and chrominance pixels horizontally.

Trying to get back on topic, then whilst technically I find the EX the biggest thing potentially since the Z1, I do wish they could have taken a leaf from JVCs book regarding form factor. The ergonomics of the HD100/200 series are generally found to suit a camera of this size/weight so much better than the ergonomics of the Z1 or the HVX200.

And the next question must be how JVC themselves will respond to this? I seem to recall they have hinted at solid state for the future themselves - will they also use SxS? And when!?

How about a Hard drive??? I know this XDcam EX camcorder records on SxS cards but is it possible to attach and record with a hard drive as well?? I know the V1 offers that option to simultaneously record on tape and that optional drive that Sony offers as well for archivng and back-up purposes. And I believe the Panasonic HVX200 has the ability to be firewired to a hard drive for recording(I could be wrong on this). Any word if this cam can do the same??


Ozzy

A harddrive (such as a Firestore) makes a good complement to a tape based camera - Firestore for immediate use, tape for backup/archive - but I'm not so sure about it's relevance here. They both may be seen as non long term media, unlike tape or disc - comparable rather than complementary.

But you've got me thinking. What about a Firestore type device which attachs to an existing tape based camera (DSR450 or whatever), but records to SxS as opposed to it's own hard drive?

I doubt Sony would want to market such a device, they'd no doubt prefer to sell you a brand new camera. But surely there's nothing to stop a third party (such as Firestores makers) bringing out such a device?

Has anybody heard yet what the initial price of the cards will be?

Not yet. Sony says they'll be firming up all that information and will release it in the August timeframe. It's also undetermined at this point whether the sub 8K price tag will include any media.

-gb-

I think important thing here is that this camera is still about six months away and many features could change.

I do see a trend here: The People want flash cards and HD SDI out. And Sony is recognizing it with this offering.

I believe it is compatible with the HVR-DR60 portable drive, the same one which works with the Z1 and V1: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...p=142&id=85967

Fine, but how about those PC's that don't have PCI-Express interface? How will a SxS ExpressCard reader connect - if not to use the recorded clips directly, then at least for drag'n'drop copying to the HDD?