Mattebox question: Genus et al
 

I'm hoping to get a mattebox but my limited funds are keeping me away from some of the better ones. Does anybody have any experience with the Genus unit seen here?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/544775-REG/Genus_GWMC_77_GCM_77_Matte_Box_with.html
If this one stinks, what would you suggest?

Personally, I'd be skeptical of clamp-on matte boxes. You really need rail supports or you're just asking for trouble. That's a lot of weight clamped onto the lens when you have filters in it; and if you don't have filters in it, what's the point of having it.

I hate to admit this, but part of the desire to have this thing hanging off the front of the camera is for client appeal as well as sun shading. In my opinion, clients will look at a camera that has a more "professional" appearance differently than they would with the standard EX1. Just my opinion, of course.

Take a look at the Cavision Matt boxes. They are reasonably priced, fairly sturdy and have rod support. I have used and continue to use one that has served my previously owned Ex3, Panasonic HPX 300 and more recently, a Sony PMW 350, naturally, with different rod systems.

Ron, can either of the Cavision filter holders be moved vertically? The reason I ask is because I tried a Cavision a couple of years ago and was surprised to find that neither of the stages could be raised or lowered. Have they improved the design, because if not, that should be a deal killer.

90% of the reason for going with a matte box instead of screw-in filters is so that you can raise and lower grad filters. Other than that function, there isn't really any reason to hassle with a matte box at all. Polarizers, soft filters, etc. all work just as well with screw-in filters for a lot less money and easier use.

I use a 10 year old Chrosziel clamp-on model on my EX1 and EX1R, and it works great. Lightweight and rock solid without any rails. The only drawback is that I have to insert the trays from below because of the camera's microphone. No big deal once you get used to it. I still have plenty of clearance for vertical adjustment and rotataion.

I use a Redrock matte box with Zacuto rails on my F800, but that rig is way too big and heavy to recommend for use with an EX1R or EX3. I know some people use a Redrock with the small camcorders, but I don't know how they manage it. I couldn't stand that bulk.

I guess the bottom line is that I don't have any real advice for which current model to choose, I just suggest that whatever someone buys they should make sure that it has at least one stage that can be rotated; at least one stage that can be moved vertically; and that it isn't so big and heavy that it overwhelms the camera itself. My experience shows that the clamp-on models work fine and won't harm the lens.

Hi Doug:

The rear, rotatable stage of the MB410H can move into the vertical position, the front stage is fixed. Not sure that answers your question, however. I believe that they have designed this model specifically for the Ex series (the Ex1 ad Ex3) and their particular problem regarding the ingress and egress of filters.

Chrosziel CMB-R20, clamp-on, VERY light, two 4x4 180 degree rotating trays, access trays top or bottom, flag, heaps of options.

Ron, okay now it's coming back to me. Thanks for the refresher.

The front stage was fixed, and therefore the matte box was useless to me. I always shoot outdoors with both a polarizer and a .6 ND 1/2 grad. The polarizer needs to rotate and the 1/2 grad needs to rotate and be movable vertically to get the split right where I want it. With the Cavision, only one stage could be adjusted, so therefore, it was pointless for me to buy it. Either I could rotate the polarizer or I could slide the grad, but I could never do both.

If the Chrosziel CMB-R20 that David mentions is anything like my older Chrosziel, I'd give it two thumbs up. That's what I'd buy if I was in the market for a new matte box for the EX1R or EX3.

Dave, once you get the matte box, you'll find it is a great tool with a lot more benefits than just making the camera look pimped out for the client. And I'm someone that used to bring lots of extra c-stands, flags, and other crap I didn't actually need to every shoot for particular client that wanted to think it was a bigger production than it really was. He was happy and I was happy for over 80 videos over a 7 year period. Sometimes you gotta give the client what they expect to see, but the matte box will actually make a difference if you buy the right filters and use it right.

Many thanks Dave and Doug. That Chrosziel R20 looks pretty good. One question: does the French Flag lock into position fairly well? The quality of the hardware is always impossible to judge until you've had this gear in use for a while, 'ya know? ;-)

I own a R20 and my flag stays put like it should. Overall I'm satisfied with the mattebox.

My 2 cents...

I've got 4 different matteboxes I've tried over the years for different needs. 2 of which I've just sold. The Redrock is mostly used on my EX3. A bit heavy but very flexible and easy to use. A Cavision bellows which I used on my old XL2 (also sold) with rails. Ok, but not my favorite. (sold) A Chrosziel 440 (sold) which is a clamp on and very light but to me is too small for the EX3 but was good for the XL2. And finally a Formatt FM-600 which is a very light screw on and takes both 4x4 and 5.65x4 filters. It's a strange filter holder in that they're not removable but pressure fit. But it works fine.

The Formatt is the cheapest and lightest. I haven't had it long so I can't tell about long term use but I'm happy with it on my 5DMk2's. The Redrock is a great value for all it's features but is heavy and I mostly use it for tripod and occasionally shoulder use.

I find that rods are needed if the mattebox is heavy and you're going to load it up with all the flags and filters. Otherwise a light screw-on or clamp-on mattebox works fine. Unfortunately, like cameras, one doesn't fit perfectly all your needs.

Hi,

We have just ordered the Genus. It does com with a rails setup too and in this package 3 filters!....

Genus Ultimate Matte Box Kit

We originally purchased a Redrock. It was a great looking mattebox but I wouldn't recommend it for the EX1. I could not get it to not vignette and I took all the advice offered on the Redrock forum.

I think the Genus will do the job. If Matt Davis likes it it will do me!

My RR mattebox doesn't vignette, but it's bulky - definitely for tripod work only.

Hi Piotr,

Thanks for the original advice but I had it as far back as it would go and it still vignetted. I also took the inner frame out but still no joy. Needless to say I sold it. I also found that if it was not completely and utterly perfectly aligned iI saw vignetting at the widest shot.

I think it works fine with EX3 or if your using an adaptor.

Darren, were you using the rubber lens hood as an "adapter" for your RR mattebox?

If so, it was probably the hood that was vignetting - not the mb itself.

Hi Piotr,

The one that redrock suggest? Yeah maybe it was but It was all so fiddly. I was also so conscious of the LCD having to be out all the time!

Hi Darren,

Any chance you can post pics of your EX1 and Genus mattebox setup?

Thanks,

Hi Jeff,

Ordered it only a couple of days ago so eagerly waiting it's arrival! The deal is very good with those 3 filters thrown in!

Thanks Darren!

I don't have an EX1R yet, but I'm looking into all the options of kitting it up. (I recently did buy Doug Jensen's tutorial DVDs, and that's a great resource! It's a start at least :)

Would your Genus mattebox fit with a 35mm adaptor? I guess you'll need longer support rods for the additional length that the adaptor and lens gives you.

Best,

Hi Darren,

Would this be the B and H equivalent that you ordered?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/673277-REG/Genus_GMKULT_77_Ultimate_Matte_Box_Kit.html
Best,

Looks like it Jeff.

See if you can order from Genus direct as you get a grad, an ND 9 and a circular polarizor!

For what I do most times, I have found I do not need a matte box. I keep a screw-on UV filter on my EX3, and I sometimes switch to an ND or circular polarizer as needed. What I have found I need oftentimes is a French flag. So I affixed a cold shoe to the lens hood, to which I can mount this flag...

Universal French Flag

I do not have it on the camera when it is not needed. It's clunky, and if I don't tighten it properly, it slips into the shot.

But when I need it, it's sure nice to have it.

0428001353 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

And by the way, you can also add a rails system for your favourite DSLR setup too. A lot of my outdoor GVs (where ND Grads and polas become essential, as are sunshades) are shifting over to my 550D.

The only thing they don't supply, which I didn't know existed before I watched the Philip Bloom training DVD, was (and I quote) 'Nun's Knickers', though I haven't experienced a need for such apparel with an EX1.

Just a note from the trenches though - if you use the push-to-fit adaptor with the Genus on your EX1 with the 0.6 wide, you will need to ensure that the matte box is on perfectly straight and won't shift. It's a critical adjustment that's caught me out once (leaping into ditches filming a coach IIRC). Rails will prevent that from happening at the cost of extra bulk.

I have the Genus on my Canon 7D, on rods (Red Rock rods by the way). Quality is good, but the screws for the stages are not as smooth as the ones on my Vocas matteboxes, but that one more then double the price... The holes for the rods are attached with a screw witch you have to tighten once a month.

Hey Darren, I too would like to see your rig when you get it all assmebled. The Genus is starting to sound like a very good candidate for me. The option of adding the rails later is also a handy way of keeping the initial cost down somewhat.

Thanks to all for your ideas and suggestions.
Dave

What a hoot! They actually advertise it with that description:

Genus Universal Donut Nun's Knickers

dave

Can anybody tell me the difference between this Genus:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/544775-REG/Genus_GWMC77K_GCM_77_Matte_Box_with.html

and this Genus?:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/544777-REG/Genus_GMKBAS77K_GMKBAS_77_Basic_Matte_Box.html

Darren,

Please report to us in detail when you have tested this solution. What I'm afraid of is that - while the RR mattebox has a tendency to vignette with the EX1 even though it uses 16:9 format (4x5.65" filters) - the square filters of the Genus might pose even more problems.

Of course, I might be mistaken - but I'd do with some hands-on feedback from you :)

TIA,

Piotr

I can't answer that one. Hopefully not!

Matt can probably give us the answer for that!????

Vincent which Vocas matte box are you using? I checked them out a NAB and was impressed with the weight and different options.

@Paul: the MB-325, with the rails suport. See this iPhone pic.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/attachme...t-box-foto.jpg

Thanks Vincent that is the one I am looking at for my f800. Any pros or cons?

It's still a sort of plastic so breakable. I have one on my 3 year old PDW F350, one day the camera (lens) bumped against a door,fortunately the mattebox broke, not the lens... Beside that, and maybe the price (1500 eur, almost 2000 USD) no cons. It's a good piece of gear.

Hi Paul,
I’m using the same VOCAS matte box as Vincent does on my XDCAM HD. They are not made out of plastic, but molded carbon fibre, what is making them so light. For the matte box itself I have no cons. Great product! I love the internal eyebrowns that can be controlled on the side of the matte box.

But be aware that if you are going to put the matte box on 15 mm rails and want to use a lens controller in combination with a Fujinon lens , you have to buy a special 12-pin Hirose cable from Chrosziel (part nr. 401-CABLE) with a 90 degree connector. The connectors on the DIGIPOWER lenses are placed on a stupid and totally wrong place. The clamping system that holds the rails sits in the way and will not allow you to plug a straight connector into the lens. Please don’t fall of your chair but this very short cable costs $419,95 at B&H! Canon lenses do not have this problem because their connectors are placed further to the front. This can simply be solved by using a Z-shaped bar kit, also sold by VOCAS.

Chrosziel 401-CABLE

Thanks Vincent appreciate the first hand experience.

Ivan great feedback.

I did know the matte box was Carbon after the NAB visit which is a good thing for weight, but also why it will break on impact.

Nice to hear you like the internal eyebrows I was not sure how helpful this would be. Great to know the Fujinon lens controller will need the Chrosziel 90 degree connector. This is different then what I was told at the NAB booth where they said the controller will work fine with rails. Thanks for the heads up.

So far with my search at NAB and on the web this is still my first choice for matte box.

Yes, I have used it with success with the Century 0.6 wide, apart from the time it twisted a bit.

Great info guys. Thanks so much for all the feedback. Can anybody tell me the advantages (if any) of the Vocas vs. the Genus? They appear very similar apart from those internal eyebrows on the Vocas. Quality of construction, ease of mounting, etc. Since cost would be such a concern for me, I'd want to be able to initially purchase one of these brands as a clip-on and then, when funds allow, get a rail system to support it.

Although I can not explain it very well, the Vocas one is build better, it just feels more solid. Filter holders do slide better @ the vocas one, and the screws and stuff are holding up better. If it's worth the extra money, that's up to you. I've chosen Vocas on all my ENG camera's (out in de field every day) and de Genus for my Canon 7D kit (less used).

Vincent I think you explained it very well. The Vocas is better quality which is the same thing I found at NAB.