Overexposed pictures with EX1
 

I have a problem with my EX1 in automatic mode. It tends to clearly overexpose my pictures. Even if I set the ND filter to 1 or 2 it tries desperately to set the aperture too high and images ate too bright.
In a still camera like Nikon we can easily set the aperture to -1 stop or more if we see that the automatism of the camera tends to overexpose. But I cant see this functon with the EX1.
Can someone help identifying this fonction ?
If it does not exist, I presume I can do it through a picture profile. If this is possible, which parameter should I change to adjust the f stop to a lower value ?

My advice.......

Stay away from any of the auto functions. It's pretty much a pro camera so use it like one and you will get far better results!

With all due respect, this kind of advice is very popular and 'posh' among the 'pros' - but IMHO, the automatic functions are there to be used (though only where required, or unavoidable).

Francois - it can be set via the Camera menu -> TLCS -> Level.

And even among pro's, you can bet there are times to use it. Like when you are on a stabilizer and no one is pulling iris for you as you do indoor <-> outdoor shots, etc.

I agree with Perrone and Piotr,

Try nailing focus and iris while flying in a helicopter doing tight circles over bright objects on the water. You go from full backlit to looking for light in 20 seconds while a director is watching your shot in the front seat on a monitor saying can you pull out or closer. While you are going no ND to ND2, pulling focus and just trying to keep the shot close. Auto has its uses when the operator can not keep up with just two hands.

But as soon as you can go full manual it is always the way to go.

Hey Francois

The thing with auto Iris, is that it compensates for bright as well as dark areas in the frame, seeking to attain an overall pleasing/correct exposure.

so if there is alot of black or simply a larger amount of dark area in the frame, the auto is going to open the apperture for you, which might in turn burn the brighter areas out, while the dark areas are correctly exposed.

if there are more brighter areas in the frame, it´s going to shut the apperture down, perhaps at the cost of the darker areas of the frame being flat/black.

If you have a frame without any major brightness differences and your cam is still overexposing it, there is a problem with the sensitivity of the Auto setting

The chips on these cams are really great where contrast is concerned, so it´s strange that ALL? your stuff is overexposed...

maybe you could post a couple of frame grabs of different settings where you experienced overexposure.

I am all for shooting in full manual mode at all times, BUT..... the auto Iris is something everyone should know how to use, if you understand what the camera is "thinking", it´s a good tool to use for quick iris setting on the fly, BUT...... should be switched off and the exposure readjusted to your own manual setting according to what´s in the frame, this also avoids "PUMPING"

so in your case,(and this is the emergancy fix) if you have a homogenous contrast in the frame in question, use the auto Iris....... if you don´t trust yourself to expose, ...........
then close the iris down a stop or half a stop (depending) and you should be ok

another thing to consider is what are you monitoring on?
it could just be your monitor????

also there is a tool called the histogram, which will tell you fairly quickly if the shot is correctly exposed or not(takes a bit of getting used to, but should help you alot)

to TLCS: the camera is a tool and you are the artist, don´t let it do all the thinking for you

compensating for the auto iris with a picture profile setting is gonna land you into more trouble than anything else, because the picture profiles react differently to different light situations

you might want to send your cam in and get it calibrated

Hey, I aint no pro! Just learnt the hard way!

If you have direct menu set to Part or All (in the others section of the menu). You can then use the thumbstick on the top of the handle to go to where iris is displayed and then push in to select then push up or down to add an offset to the auto iris of +1 to -1 stop.

I use auto iris. Not always, but it's a useful tool and in no way amateur, just another tool that helps in certain situations.

Does the camera overexpose when using a picture profile? That may be one of the issues.

Alister Chapman has done some great screencasts about the various gamma modes which (and I am going all theoretical here) may push exposure too far up the curve or utilise brightness beyond 100%.

I am skidding around on two wheels here, so this may not be the case, but having watched Alister's screencasts, it made me think about how the camera would handle the exposure if in auto.

Well, your advice is just theory. In practice, there are so many parameters than need to be changed when shooting (focusing, zooming, exposure, camera position etc.) that we cannot control all of them simultaneously. It is nice to have at least one of them in automatic mode. Say that you want to control manually the focusing. Can you really yourself control simultaneously the focus and the aperture, while ensuring the right framing ?

I checked my TLCS setting and it was set as "Backlight". Do you think this is the source of my problem? I put ti to Standard rather than Backlight.

Yes. Backlight opens the aperture to compensate for a bright background (subject in shadow).

Yes, of course it should be at Standard. Backlight increases exposure to compensate for strong backlight (as the name implies:); you would only use temporarily (if ever at all)!

TLCS settings are sort of permanent (e.g. the Level is active all the time when Auto Iris is on). Therefore, you could alternatively use Alister's advice, and change it in the menu on a more shot-to-shot basis, with the joystick.

That said, I also would like to stress it that Auto Iris is a last-resort tool. But since it does happen to be used, one should learn how to use it correctly.

Francois
I reckon you might have figured it out, the backlight function pushes the darker areas in the frame up electonically, like the gain does to the entire shot....so you should have much better results with the Auto Iris now,

BUT..........do yourself a favour and learn to live without the Auto Iris, or use it DURING a shot only as a last resort.(pumping just looks amatuer and cheap)
it´s a good tool to check how the cam is sizing up the brightness of a scene, but won´t always be perfect, so don´t let the cam do all the thinking

A good shooter can most definately pull focus, iris and hold a rad frame all at the same time, it´s all about practise, besides that, the good shooter will always try avoid major light changes in a shot.
Doing a 360° circle of a subject from a chopper is an absolute nightmare I know(as far as lighting is concerned), but hey we´re getting paid to produce those images

I don't consider auto iris a last resort tool. When I'm shooting aircraft against rapidly changing skies, pulling focus with one hand and controlling the zoom with the other, having the camera accurately control the iris is hardly a last resort. I find the EX auto Iris to be consistent and normally accurate.

Yes. I would never shoot with "auto" turned on for any setting on any camera. The only exccption is audio. I use auto audio control when I don't care about the sound because I know it won't be used. Other than that, it is manual 100% of the time on everything else. It's the only way you can be sure the camera won't screw you right in the middle of a shot. Anything the camera can do, I can do better.

That has been my policy for 30 years, and the EX cameras are no different.

While you're absolutely right with regards to shooting in a controlled environment - did you consider a run and gun situation in your reply?

I said 100%, didn't I? That means 100% of everything except when shooting with auto to demonstrate it for teaching purposes. This isn't just my opinion of how things should be shot, I actually do it that way. I'm not saying I get it perfect all the time, but I get it perfect more often the camera would. And I have no one else to blame but myself when I screw it up.

I think it is funny when people complain that the auto white balance, focus, iris, etc. didn't give them the results they wanted. NO KIDDING! Use them at your own risk. And when they dont work, that's just the price you pay. Be glad they worked when they did work. I'm not bashing the EX1 or EX3, because this applies to all cameras.

Go ahead and use auto if you want to, but I choose not to. Ever.
And I've been in some pretty hairy run & gun situations.

The nice thing about the EX3 and EX1, is that you can see exactly what is going on using the viewfinder. If it looks too bright or dark then generally the final result will be. Of course to make an accurate assessment, you must set up the viewfinder first and the Zebra values. I confess that sometimes for convenience I do resort to using some of the Auto functions.

Keeping a keen eye on what's happening on screen should get you out of most situations. Having said that, when the unexpected happens then you could lose a shot, but the same may be true for using the camera in full manual mode.

The best advice is to try Auto Iris, Focus, Gain, WB etc. for yourself and see if there are any limitations for your shooting style. You will soon find the pitfalls for each way of working.

I know several photographers who shoot with auto this or that and rely on - "we'll fix it in Photoshop afterwards". A poor excuse for sloppy working habits. A lot can be fixed in your NLE, but getting it right on the day has to be the best fix.

No it doesn't.

ATW on the EX1 simply doesn't work (it does excellent job in other cameras, like the V1 for instance). So, I simply never use it.

Auto Iris on the EX1 works more or less the same as in other cameras. So I use it, when necessary.

No risk involved - just using the tools that do work, in the way they have been designed to be used.

If the use of auto iris was such a big no-no do you think Canon and Fujinon would still bother putting it on top of the line $40,000 HD lenses? Fujinon do some very clever things with the auto iris on the 42x16 HD lens. You can use a small thumbwheel on the lens remote to dial in auto iris offsets while you shoot, there are many applications where auto iris is essential.

When shooting airshows where the aircraft goes from being close to the ground, backlit, to high in the sky front lit the exposure change is so massive that you simply must adjust the exposure. On a long lens, or even full telephoto on the EX, as that aircraft then comes towards you at 400mph your pulling focus like crazy with one hand, adjusting the zoom the zoom with the other. At the sam time panning and tilting the tripod smoothly. If you want your exposure to be correct you have no choice other than to use auto iris or get a focus puller.

I shoot run and gun in manual everything mode all the time and like Doug I've done that with a range of cameras for years. Sure, there are times when auto something is handy but it's not so difficult.

It is not impossible to control zoom, focus, iris and framing simultaneously. Like anything else it's just training the fingers. That's why a camera operator charges $750 a day, without a package. Well, that's one reason.

But there is a time and place for Auto I say. Like when I have a bullet proof vest on about to tail a SWAT team storming into a druglord's base of operations. You can bet your pretty penny I have one finger on the Auto/Manual switch to go either way in a second because it's all about pictures for a hard news story.

To take that further, look at the 55x, 70x and 100x plus broadcast lenses. There is no Auto/Manual switch. It's always Auto. If it was not, you could not control them at the engineering desk along with the other ten cameras in manual! I admit, such a bad example but you opened the door to a good one Alister. Even with some 19x and 20x (don't remember models offhand) ENG lenses you can tweak Auto iris range, create a custom iris window to restrict response and adjust highlight response. Auto Iris has come some way since Beta SP.

Oh and be happy you have TLCS in EX guys. Most big cameras do not so this is a treat. TLCS is the domain of a painter/engineer with the big cams. You can tweak TLCS to give you exceptable results when you run out of fingers. TLCS use does not automatically equal "Gain". And don't forget Tracing Speed can make less amateur looking the auto iris response.

All about tools. Any time anyone says "this is the only way to do it" someone else will come along and be successful doing the exact opposite. Yes, you must absolutely learn all the rules to be able to understand the most important rule -- that there are no rules.

How about this one: Rules are made to be broken but you have to know what you are breaking to break it effectively. Otherwise you are a like a innocent little happy clown.


Auto Iris is not tied to TLCS by default. You can use Auto Iris without TLCS.

TLCS is tied to Full Auto mode by default.

If you think the camera is going to do a better job than you can do yourself, then you are probably right. I suggest that you use auto.

The only reason I got on this thread was to correct the notion that you can't run a camera in 100% manual mode. I can. Everyone I hire does too. It is not even hard, let alone impossible.

Also, just because a manufacturer chooses to put a feature on a camera does not mean an experienced professional should use it. That is absurd.

Really?
Then how did I manage to shoot this air show with no automatic iris, no ATW white balance, no auto-focus, no expanded focus, no external monitor, no focus puller, and no rear zoom control. Just the camera, a matte box, and a good tripod.

http://vimeo.com/5425091

I've got 2 hours of equally solid footage, with practially no junk that couldn't be used. I know 1/2 a dozen guys within a 25 mile radius that could have done the same thing. It's nothing special or out of the ordinary. This is just a normal day's shooting.

Correction:

TLCS (apart from its other functions) is the way to turn the iris, gain, and shutter speed auto modes on and off independently of each other. This is how it differs from the Full Auto mode, which puts everything on auto simultaneously (i.e. the iris, gain, shutter speed - but also white balance).

So, I stand by what I said:

- need to offset auto iris permanently? use Level in TLCS
- need to offset it on a shot-to-shot basis? use Direct menu's joystick.

If my advice to the OP has been the former, is because - if I could operate the joystick during a shot, I could operate the iris ring, so no need fro auto iris.

To each his (its) own.

Oh, and Max - did you read the OP's message in this thread? I was merely answering his inquiry about offsetting the auto iris, which seemed to overexpose the picture to him.

Nice footage Doug,

The planes fly over my house on the approach to the RI Air Show and the biplanes practice in our area the week prior. Fun Stuff

I agree with Doug full manual can be used if the camera is within reach. What do people do who walk or run with stabilizing rigs?

I posted above that I use auto iris on the EX1. It is not a normal on the ground tripod or shoulder mounted shoot. The camera is mounted on a gyro system at full arms reach away when I use auto iris. I only do this if we are circling. If you touch the camera you disrupt the gyro systems balance and miss the shot till you dial the gyros back in. Now if there was a control system that I could afford, where all manual controls where at my finger tip then I would go full manual.

This is my reason to upgrade to an EX3. With some of the optional lens you can buy handle controls that would do the job besides having better glass.

I think we should all agree to disagree here. What works for you is what you should do.

Indeed, you can have TLCS without Full Auto. But you can't have Full Auto without TLCS. You can't turn Auto Iris on and off through TLCS though. Did you make a slip there? Good times.

I did and noticed your answer was dead on. I just thought you meant anytime there's Auto-Iris there's TLCS and that caught my attention.

I also made a slip, most engineers won't be caught dead using TLCS for a TV show but Sony designed it dating back to SD with them in mind. That doesn't mean I disagree with its use. In that world I may activate it momentarily in a crunch to let the operator set his frame offline when there is no light. No question a fallback measure. Like I said, TLCS has a stigma of being associated with Auto gain. Gain = NoNo for non-news live TV.

I would also add that it is definitely a plus to use your Histogram in conjunction with Zebras and Auto Iris function.

You can avoid clipping (overexposing) altogether by double-checking with the Histo.

I often use Auto Iris as a second opinion.

But since I use the Histo all the time these days, the Auto Iris is has become the third opinion.

I actually use Auto-Iris as the first opinion. I will usually switch to auto iris to see what the camera suggests, and to get me in the ballpark, then I immediately switch back to manual and adjust the iris (if necessary) based on the zebras and my instincts. If it's smaller than f/4, then I move to the next higher ND and check the auto-iris again. The key, is that I never leave the iris on auto while I'm shooting. When I say I never use auto-iris, that is what I mean.

Paul,
The jets fly right over my house, too. I couldn't resist going down and shooting them this year. I'm glad I picked Saturday because Sunday was overcast. Thanks for the comments. One of these days we have got to get together.

I use Auto Iris when I white balance. But that's about it. :)

Oops, I did indeed :)

Auto Iris is the only one of the three to have its dedicated hardware switch, of course.

Which BTW also has its good reason, don't you think?

Doug Sat was the day to shoot glad you caught it.

Happy to meet up. I am headed to Rule the next three Wed mid day for their seminars if you are interested.

feel free to email

I love threads like these..good old debate!

I wouldn't argue with Doug, more experience than me and produces some stunning stuff. Well done Doug!