Barry and Steve,

Thanks Guys, im onto it today and doing a few tests.

Rob.

Problem?
 

Greetings,

The read in this format has been informative. So informative that it's left me a little stunned; playback on SD DVD from my EX3 retains quality relatively well. None of my clients have made remark about the quality after export. Perhaps I need to watch my originals on my monitors and then go back to the TV for a review, but I haven't seen reason to be displeased yet; I work in the Apple ProRes intermediate (the native XDCAM import code), compress using Compressor into Mpeg-2 (I'll look up the settings when I'm home), and author the DVD using DVDSP4.

Hi Barry,or any one that can help,

i have had a go at the setting in your pdf file, the only difference is the i am shooting 720p/50.

i have changed the relevant settings to suite my pal land settings.

the problem i can see watching the footage back (SD DVD made in DVDStudio Pro) on my 32" is (video content kids concert 15 children standing on stage) when i pan from left to right slowly the footage seem to be a bit jittery. It looks like when people film in 24p and pan quite fast you get the same jittery effect,
Note: when i had my JVC i shot the same format and never had this problem.

rob.

I must be missing something. I've been using the EX1 for a while now and I export through Compressor & DVDSP to DVD and the image looks fine to me. It's a little soft - not as sharp as HD anyway, especially on the wider shots - but the close-ups look beautiful. Maybe I'm not fussy enough, but I used the same process to DVD with the JVC HD100 with satisfactory results - and the EX1 is even better. Are there other people out there who are happy with the results they're getting? If these methods can make my image look even better, then I'll go for it, but I haven't had a complaint from a client yet.

I'm editing EX3 clips in FCS2 (I do all my editing in XDCAM HD 1920x1080p 25 VBR), exporting to Compressor to make both the Std Def PAL MPEG-2 video file (m2v), with the best quality settings available on the standard list, and the AC3 audio file then going into DVDSP4 and making Std Def DVD's which look, even to my often critical eye, the best I've ever made! Yes, of course, a little softer for sure than the HD files but on both a 28 inch Panasonic flat screen (but CRT) TV and a 32 inch Samsung HDTV (LCD) as well as on various PC monitors from 17 to 24 inch the results are really superb. I've done very little "tweaking" of settings other than customise everything in DVDSP4 for 16x9 of course and set encoding to 'Best' in Compressor. Not sure this helps.....and I'm not expert enough in FCS2 (yet!) to be able to actively problem solve this one... but just to say it all seems to work well for me. Before I got my EX3 and moved over to Macs I used to get pretty good results with Vegas 7 and DVDA too with previous HD cams.

I'm interested in Steve's workflow (page 1 of this thread) and will try that as a direct comparison... when I get time.

Rob, if you are indeed panning slowly, then what you are seeing should not be from the camera CMOS rolling effect. I expect that the problem is more likely to do with going from 50p progressive to 50i interlaces for you SD DVD. In FCP you might try to set the SD Sequence settings, ProRes codec (Advanced) to none (i.e uncheck interlaced) Then make sure your compressor (Resizing Control) Fields are set to "Bottom first". In other words, let Compressor do all of the work of conversion from p to i.

You are ahead of me in this so I have not yet tested working with progressive HD conversion to SD interlaced. I have shoot 24p that only goes to Blu-ray and it is awesome. However, from the forum discussions it sounds like there are lot of folks shooting 1080 25/30p and using a similar workflow to mine and getting good results. Learn by innovating/doing :-) Cheers!

To Bill.

What Barry just said.
Plus, when you setup your export out of FCP from the SD timeline after you have made your prores422 QT movie and dropped it on and rendered it, make sure in the advanced tab of the sequnce you have chosen 50 frames per second from the drop down movie, and not the default 25. By not doing that it would make the image more juddery instead of nice and smooth with pans ( and the reason I shoot in 720P50 and not 25). And make sure its set for progressive and 16:9.

Doing all that and you should have a nice smooth sd movie out of DVDSP. And not to forget in DVDSP set your fields to none.

While I shoot in 1080p25, maybe you could try the workflow I use:
1 Edit clips in timeline with the clips settings, but you do not have to render.
2 Create a DV sequence with these settings:
- Frame size - choose "CCIR / DV PAL (5:4)" from the menu and you get 720x576.
- Pixel aspect ratio : choose "PAL - CCIR 601 (720x576) from the menu and check "Anamorphic 16:9".
- Field dominance "None"
- Editing timebase "25" (for you "50", I suppose)
- In QuickTime Video settings: click the button "Advanced" and choose "Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)
3 Open this DV sequence and add you HD sequences to by dragging to the canvas. You will get the question if you want to change the DV sequence settings to those which you are adding: then click the "No"-button
4 Render
5 Export to a QuickTime reference file (some people suggest a self-contained, but I find reference files have the same quality and they are smaller and faster to export)
6 Open Compressor and use one of the DVD settings; however I find that adding a sharpening filter with the "5" setting is worth it.

Sverker, perhaps it is an NTSC artifact, but I have also tried sharpening in DVDSP as you suggest. It cause the edges to "ring" that is to loose their clean definition. It may also have to do with the fact that I started out with 1080/60i while your source is progressive.

Picture Profile
 

hi William

What changes have you made to the standard Picture Profiles of the EX1 (if any)?
Particulary any changes to do with detail and crispness?

regards
Keith

Barry, I work in PAL only, so I don´t know about NTSC artifacts. It could be because of you working interlaced as you say. I find my SD clips almost like HD when on a HD-ready (1280x720) screen.

I tested the sharpen filter in Compressor, without and with the settings 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30. I find the difference between 0 and 5 small but noticable.

Maybe I should test sharpen filter settings 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 instead.

I have tested the demo of BitVice and compared with Compressor, but I found no difference.

William,

Perhaps a bit too late but can you post a small sample of what you're seeing?

I've just done a 45 minute project, all cineform prospect. Most of our viewing has been from a tivx digital media player on an HD plasma but i had to start encoding SD DVDs a few days ago. I just used adobe media convertor and output an mpeg 2 dvd stream for adobe encore from 1080p source and we found the results really very good, i have no issue with them at all and i can really get very picky...

Now either there's something technically amiss in your set up (but you've been through lots already) or there's something unusual about your source hence perhaps we can see a sample?

We shot a drama with an EX1, (no digital sharpening) and we still get comments about how nice it looks. The EX1 can produce fantasic images for a camera in its price range.


cheers
paul

From William ---- to those of you kind enough to provide direct suggestions, queries, etc., above, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but I just got back from an all day project, and will try to begin to respond to some of you in particular by late tomorrow.

Thanks again!

Bill Urschel

We use a pretty down and dirty method in creating SD DVDs of HD material. The results are quite nice.
Shoot XDCAM EX-1 1080i. Edit with Final Cut Studio 2.
Drop footage into a DV timeline.
Edit and render as usual.
Pipe the finished project out through firewire to our Sony RDR-GX7 desktop DVD recorder.
Record in HQ (60 minutes) or HSP (90 Minutes) modes for best quality.
No fancy menus, but looks great.
Better than I been able to do with Compresser and DVD Studio.

Kevin Jones

I use idvd on the Mac to make SD dvds
 

I found that once I get the program produced, I make a QT movie and load it into iDVD and let it make the conversion for me. The stuff looks great. You might give that a try.

Phil