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-   -   What about "real" Rolling Shutter problems ? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/123747-what-about-real-rolling-shutter-problems.html)

Paul Kellett June 18th, 2008 02:23 PM

I haven't seen any noticeable issues with panning etc. You need to shake the crap out of the EX1 to cause problems.

Paul.

Matt Davis June 18th, 2008 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster (Post 894450)
Do you know what the shutter speed is with "shutter off"

I am pretty sure that it's the reciprocal of the shutter speed, so at 25p, you're shooting at 1/25th.

Tim Polster June 18th, 2008 02:50 PM

Thanks.

I read on another forum that turning the shutter off does not make the issue go away, just lessen the impact.

Matt Davis June 18th, 2008 04:38 PM

It certainly lessens the impact.

I think I read the same thing, which is why I'm not going to categorically deny it until I get the time to test it scientifically - which is somewhere between sometime and never.

Honestly, though - with shutter off, I have NOT had problems with flashes from photographers.

Tim Polster June 18th, 2008 04:47 PM

I would really appreciate your or anybody's test as I plan to shoot in 720p60 a lot and turning off the shutter would not be a big deal at that framerate.

Matt Davis June 19th, 2008 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Polster (Post 895238)
I would really appreciate your or anybody's test as I plan to shoot in 720p60 a lot and turning off the shutter would not be a big deal at that framerate.

Okay - so this is just me testing out hand-held 'Candid' style shooting at different frame rates with NO shutter. It's just a quick trip to the park, not a major shoot-out or scientific study, but as a shutterless 25 fps project, I learned a lot (including a couple of good EX1 'grips').

http://www.vimeo.com/1008860

Note if you scroll down and look on the right side of the page, you can download the original H.264 version, which will have less compression.

Interestingly, if you plan to shoot at 60p, panning won't be such a problem. I've shot some test work at 50p and it's amazingly fluid. I've even found a way of down-sampling and re-interlacing to PAL. But I'm so enamoured with the whole 25p thing...

I am chained to the edit suite for the next couple of weeks at least, but may find an excuse to film some fast moving stuff at both 25p and 50p to contrast and compare.

Steven Thomas June 19th, 2008 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Rixner (Post 893414)
So after all that I think I'll have to wait until technology improves.
Should I say to clients: Sorry, no flashlights, flashing concert lights or shaky shots ? :)
Peter

Concert flashing lights are done by mechanical shutters. These are not an issue with the EX1. I own Martin moving head lights and the EX1 captures them fine.

Dean Sensui June 20th, 2008 02:19 PM

Because all my shooting involves waving the camera back-and-forth as it did in Paul Kellett's demo video, I examined my video frame by frame at 400% magnification and decided the rolling shutter of the EX1 doesn't work for me.

Other cameras that didn't work include: Panasonic HVX, Sony PD-170, Canon XL1s, Sony Betamovie II, Cinema Beaulieu 4008s, Red One, Red Two, Red Three, and the Remington Security Cam. It was especially destructive with images made with an Etch-a-Sketch.

I decided to take up painting like Jackson Pollock instead.

:-)

Sean Donnelly June 24th, 2008 06:30 AM

I'm currently shooting a feature with my ex1 and a letus, and have done several hardmounted driving shots. At times we were running at 50+mph on rough roads near Saratoga, NY and while there was some camera shake at times, there was absolutely no wobble to speak of. I have seen flashes causing partial exposure, but I very rarely end up in a situation where it matters, and I personally don't find it all that offensive. If you're shaking enough to cause the jello effect, you probably wouldn't use the shot anyway.

-Sean

Sebastien Thomas June 24th, 2008 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Donnelly (Post 897680)
I'm currently shooting a feature with my ex1 and a letus, and have done several hardmounted driving shots. At times we were running at 50+mph on rough roads near Saratoga, NY and while there was some camera shake at times, there was absolutely no wobble to speak of. I have seen flashes causing partial exposure, but I very rarely end up in a situation where it matters, and I personally don't find it all that offensive. If you're shaking enough to cause the jello effect, you probably wouldn't use the shot anyway.

-Sean

I had the problem only once and yes, this can happen, not when you are shaking the camera but when it is vibrating, oscilating, at a high speed/frequency. I'm pretty sure you won't have this kind of problem if you have the camera in hand or on a shoulder mount, even in a car. Having the camera attached at the end of a 2 meters arm to something moving (a car) may cause this problem.
This will happen only in really rare occasions. Next time I'll do something else so I won't get the gelly effect :)

This camera is just amazing :)


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