Vignette problem
 

I've noticed that my EX1 is suffering from a vignette problem whilst in the mid zoom ranges. Have a look at the top left corner in these screen shots, you can see it's fine at each end of the scale, but throughout the middle ranges it appears.

This is happening with the IRIS fully open and in low light if that makes any difference.

Can this be solved?

not encouraging - Adam Wilt mentioned this in his review of the pre-release model here:

http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/cinematog...le_16640.shtml

What the...
That's odd it's in one corner! Also in mid travel?
Wow, we need to tests these cam as soon as possible.
This should not be happening.
Why one corner?

I thought I read that in Wilt's article for the pre-ex1..... hmmmm.
Sony is going to have A LOT of upset buyers, or not buyers.

Try shooting something with a solid color. It might make it more obvious.
Note, Adam's comments mention this specific it wide apertures at 10mm on so this seems like a different issue.

Yup, well they'll certainly be getting this one back :(

It's as if something is hanging on the edge of the optical path.

Are you using any kind of clear or UV filter on the front?

Maybe you can slow zoom through and see something that might indicate what/why this is happening.

In order to do a solid colour one I need more light and a larger area, I'll try it tomorrow against a wall.

No, there is not a filter attached.

he says "from 10mm onwards" That sounds the same to me as the aperture is fully open.

Paul, I'm sorry to hear this. Looking at the stuff posted on the FTP site I do not see this issue.
I would contact my dealer as soon as possible and get the next one before they send it out to someone else. I know these cameras are going to be hard to get.
It sounds like Craig is right, this seems like a different issue from Wilt's pre-model.

To me it also has a blue cast rather than a simple darkening in the corner. That's why I'm not sure if it's a vignette problem or something that's manifesting itself in such a fashion that it can be mistaken for a vignette problem.

Maybe try various aperture settings as well as macro function and see if it's a lens aberration of some sort.

No, I think the blue is coming from my mac screensaver, it is a reflector after all :)

I've attached a small clip.

So other than the "real" let down with your problem, how was the footage, short of the no light high gain?

I haven't really spent long enough with the camera to say, my initial tests were just sitting with the camera experimenting with the camera a 12db gain (it's default high setting) and they looked much brighter than the actual room did, but obviously looked grainy too. It's definitely a lot more sensitive than my A1. I'd to try and get some nice shots but I think it's going to have to go back to the supplier, I'm certainly not waiting for Sony to fix it when it's been like this from delivery.

I see it starts at about frame 55 or at least that's when I see it encroach. It still doesn't look like a "typical" vignette issue to me since it doesn't seem to happen at other corners.

Do try it against an evenly lit surface when you get the chance.

It's really predominate in the upper left. I don't really notice it at the other corners.

I'm really surprised this passed QA.

I played the mov with Mediaplayer full screen (1920x1200), and there's definitely a blue cast on the entire leftmost part of the screen, along the left edge, culminating in the upper left corner into what can be mistaken for vignetting, IMO.

Also, could you please post a grab of what you say is "grainy" at just 12dB, Paul? TIA!

The blue cast is there all the time though, and the error is not. As I said, I run 2 x 24" LCD's and the blue (rss news) screen saver is what was emitting the blue. There was more light coming from my monitors than any other light in the room.

Here's one of the hi gain images. I was in the middle of experimenting with shutter speeds though so you really shouldn't judge the camera by it. This is the shot where I noticed the lens problem too.

(excuse the cursor) :)

In my initial first impressions post I did say that I thought the zoom ring felt a bit loose, maybe the problem is linked to that and there's some kind of internal problem in the lens.

Anyway, this camera will go back but I'm still impressed enough with it to get another one, I guess I was just unlucky this time.

Paul.

Thanks Paul for the grab; it's not that bad; the curtain and chair are almost grain-free, and this is the kind of object that becomes noisy very easily on my V1E (certainly at 12dB).

Frankly, if I were you and already have the camera, I'd keep it. Due to the shortages, they might not have a quick replacement for you; besides who knows how many other minor bugs will be surfacing in the nearest future! I'd keep and use it, as it can produce acceptable video (or at least use the time to master it). Then, after say 2-3 moths when hopefully everything is settled, I'd send it to Prime Support for a week to get the "vignetting" and everything else (should some more issues appear) fixed at once.

But in my position, I really don't know whether I should be pushing my supplier to ship mine from the first batch he gets, or wait for the next one...

That's tough, that would not be my first choice. It's bad out of the box, it needs to go back.

So....are all the cameras going to have this problem?
Or is this an isolated incident?

Has anyone taken delivery of a camera that they can confirm that it DOES NOT have this vingette problem?

There has been footage from one user whose footage does not show this issue. Also, others have received the camera, we'll have to wait and see, but based on looking at the stuff posted today, I'm thinking no. But, this does not make me feel well about their quailty control.

The effect mentioned is apparent but I wouldn't accept that setup as an adequate test in any way; you must have a subject of uniform brightness.

Serena, it's in his small video sample of footage of his family he posted. It's for real, that's for sure.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, test or no test I'm not blowing over four grand on a camera that does that under any conditions.

The camera is going back tomorrow, I'll wait for the next batch along with everybody else.

Thanks for all the help

Paul.

Well of course you can take it back and that looks to be the right decision. Obviously the dealer will do the proper test and I'll be surprised if he doesn't agree that there is a problem. But I'm surprised that you didn't wish to conduct a more definitive test which would be of general interest as well as nailing the nature of the problem. Did you really get it for four grand? Ah, I see Sterling!

I think you have the right to give Sony an earful. Given this is coming from their professional plant and business division they should turn it around or give you a new unit within a week.

Why is everybody freaking about this?

Every camera I've ever used has some sort of shortcoming, usually at the extremes of it's intended purpose.

I really get bummed out about this "culture of criticism" on video message boards where a problem is discovered, and then that's all people talk about for 2 months when it comes to the camera.

When a new camera comes out, I generally am excited about what I can do with the new camera compared to what I could do before, what jobs it would be suited for. The design shortcomings I work around, and in the end I often wind up with a better product for the person that hired me than if I used the previous generation camera.

It's as if, when it comes to learning about video, people latch onto technical shortcomings of cameras and gear instead of working on what really counts, which is technique and craft.

[edit: btw, I'm betting this is a lens design compromise rather than a defect of an individual unit]

This is NOT a design short coming. This is a defective unit. If it looked like uniform vignetting I'd say it was a design issue. From the few other clips we've seen posted by others we haven't seen anything like this.

One does worry about QC when things like this happen. Loosing a piece of gear is always a pain for a business. Loosing it because of a defect in a single unit due to the manufacturer missing something during QCing makes everyone feel like they're in a lottery.

At least with a recall for a fix, everyone feels like they're in it together.

In this case each one of us is going to scrutinize every function just in case something was missed during QC.

Nate,
His new camera actually has a problem. It doesn't appear he's on this board freaking out. He posted a small video and and sample images clearly showing the issue. In facts he'e been pretty cool about it.

Are you telling us we all should live with this issue and it is normal for the EX1?
It sure is not appearing in the footage posted from another EX1.
I agree it's unfortunate, but it's obvious a problem with the camera.
I'd return it too.

I know I've seen a lot of people make mountains out of molehills (or sometimes, slightly bigger hills) when it comes to the internet and cameras. I certainly saw it with the JVC 2 years ago.

If it's really a defect, then fine, of course he should return it. But given Adam Wilt's comment about vignetting in his review, I'm assuming what we're looking at is a design issue. I have no desire to start a discussion about how Sony screwed up a lens design though, and since I certainly don't know for sure, I'm going to let it lie. I can think of a couple different reasons for a vignette as Adam describes to only show up in one corner, and only at certain times. One is OIS.

I hear you Nate. I guess we'll know more since we are slowly receiving them.
Again, I don't see it in the tennis footage posted earlier and there was everything from wide to mid travel.

I don't think people are freaking about it at all.

In terms of your 'culture of criticism' I really enjoy reading about peoples experiences with cameras, or for that matter any other product I'm looking at investing in, and likewise when I get one I like to share my findings. As much as I appreciate the larger reviews from well know industry figures, I always enjoy reading about the feelings of average punters too who you know are not going to be careful about annoying any sponsoring brands. Everyone has their own opinions, and I like to hear them.

I've posted a few minor niggles with this camera, but I've also posted what I like about it too, other than this problem I think it's a great camera and it has met my expectations. Yes there are a few things that I struggled with coming from a canon, but within a few hours I was benefiting from the Sony cameras functionality and workflow.

With regards to this lens problem though, you must have lower requirements than I do if you think this would be an acceptable design problem (not that I think it is a design problem). I have a shoot booked in next week which is an interview against a white background to be shown on a white web page, I'm sure they would love to see this black corner on their video! For me this makes the camera unusable, that may not be the case for you, but for me my business is all about the quality of the work I produce.

I would be totally amazed if this were a design flaw, I'm sure Sony would not release a camera with anything like that happening and I like the camera so much that I'm going to really look forward to getting hold of another one.

Paul.

Smart decision to return the camera Paul.

It's a shame you had this problem. As an XHA1 owner, I would have loved to have read your opinion on how the EX1 compares to the Canon.

Good Luck!

It just seems like you got a bum camera..I freaking hope so!

when and where did you get it from Paul?

I know this forum is not the right place for any sort of "conspiracy theories", but frankly I'd tend to agree with Nate it *might* be a design problem, not necessarily manifesting itself in each and every unit, but close to it. Out of so few people actually having tested the camera, two are reporting the problem. The camera supply has been delayed and vastly reduced - who knows, perhaps the QC is working on it worldwide to separate those flawed?

My UK supplier isn't answering my e-mails; something is definitely not right.

Paul, forgive me this question - did you try to take the lens hood off, and shoot without it?

PS Paul, my above "theory" is the reason I still think you shold keep the camera and only have it replaced once the thing is totally and definitely resolved. This is a real and evident flaw, and you should have no problem replacing the camera even after 2-3 moths; if not then Prime Support will have learned how to fix it by then...

who is your uk supplier?

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