What about the CX760?
 

I am surprised that there isn't more said here about the CX760. Is it not that good of a camcorder? Are not that many of them being sold? What's the deal?

Mike

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I have the cx730 and as I understood the 760 is the US model for the 740 in Europe, so beside the fact that the 730 has no build in storage or a projector it's the same camera. I have started a thread about filming with small handicams at weddings (replacing my xh-a1) but the thread has "died" somewhat which shows that there is not so much interest in these type of camera's.

Having only my xh-a1 as a reference I can only say these new Sony additions are brilliant little camera's, the only disadvantage I see with them is lack of real control like I have with my Canon but once you learn to work around that (which isn't easy and often frustrating) they will produce stunning footage under often very difficult circumstances.

I bought 2 of them and use them as my main camera's, together with my two 550d's which are more used for creative stuff and steadicam.

I get footage with them that where not possible with my xh-a1, low light capability is mind blowing for such a little thing and it gives very low noise at very high gain (again, comparing with my xh-a1). Some people didn't believe me untill I showed some footage of it rivaling my dslr with a F1.4 lens wide open at 1600 iso.

I shot footage during a presentation with a beamer, all the lights where out with only light from the beamer bouncing of the wall and I shot the reaction of a wedding couple sitting on the other side of the room, it was REAL dark and the focus was in automode and it didn't hunt once for 15 minutes in a row. Must say that if it does loose focus it's doesn't recover under these circumstances, but which camera would? You could also say which camera would be able to hold focus automatically under these circumstances?

The OIS is mind blowing as well, I"m able to get near tripod like shots holding it in one hand, high, low, standing on my head, whatever, it's that good.

I could go on about the camera but maybe it's better if you just ask if you have specific questions, would be happy to answer them.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

My impression is the CX760 is a fully automatic camcorder with a reasonable image quality. Being fully automatic there is not much need for discussion on how to operate it. Moreover, there is no easy way for a professional to manually override the automatic controls for creative purposes and to ensure getting quality footage under adverse conditions.

The Canon HFG10 and Panasonic HS/X900 both offer natural ways to override the automatic controls and are cheaper. The Panasonic HMC40 with included XLR adaptor is currently on sale for only $200 more than the CX760V and is a much better choice for professional and artistic shooting.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/625605-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC40PJU_AG_HMC40_AVCCAM_HD_Camcorder.html

Re: What about the CX760?
 

It seems that you have not used the camera because if you would you would know it is possible to operate focus, exposure, shutter etc manually and it does it well, but only one function at the time... This small sony suffers exactly the same limitations as many other camera's in it's class. Plus if you get the model without build in memory or projector its the same price as it's competitors, my model was 50% cheaper then the hmc40 you are referring to. Aslo, if you need good low light performance (who doesn't these day's), the 760 will slap the hmc40 all over the place.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I'd suspect that your comment "are not many being sold?" hits the nail on the head - this is the extension of the "top end" consumer Sony lines, and it's a tad pricey in the current marketplace.

As a practical matter, the image quality is going to be only incrementally better than say a CX700, maybe the OIS is that much better (haven't had hands on a 760 to know, the 700 is pretty good already), and the manual controls are pretty much well known.

I really think the "high end consumer camcorder" is likely at a dead end...

When you think about it, other than as inexpensive "B cams", they have less and less relevance, however wonderful they may be for image acquisition - yep, I still love the 550 and 700's I've got for what I'm doing - I get image quality that is better than a more expensive "big" cam that's several years "old", simply because the fast update consumer cycle keeps the most recent tech in the consumer "toys", and they are not unreasonably priced (though I do think the 760 IS overpriced in the current economy - sometimes SONY gets some wacky ideas about premium pricing...).

Since the "average" consumer likely has a cell phone with still and video capability (OK, maybe not GREAT capabilities, but adequate for MOST), it's likely all they "need", at least in their minds, whatever the shortcomings and limitations - at ALL recent "events", I see cell phone cameras EVERYWHERE being used, it's in their pocket after all!

The "pro" isn't as likely to be seen with a "small" camera, no matter how good it is, "image" (of the USER, not the camera) and all that.

HD image acquisition devices are EVERYWHERE (even on MARS, as of today!), and getting cheaper. I'm not sure how well the market and current economy can support the vast range of still and video cameras (keeping in mind that many still cameras can shoot HD video that's quite acceptable too). The HDSLR camera has carved a significant chunk out of both the pro and consumer markets, although I use both, for what each does best (as Noa has noted he is doing).

I figure I'll pick up a secondhand 760 one of these days if budget allows, but it's not a "need", particularly after upgrading SLR's to the SLT-A65, which shoots incredibly good video if you work at it (and it IS work shooting with an SLR style cam).

Not sure if that answers your question, but while the current top of the line "consumer" cameras are certainly great cameras, whoever the manufacturer is... I don't think the "niche" has a huge market, and it limits the sales, thus the experience with these cameras.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Well said, I also think these "high end" consumercams fall in between 2 markets, consumers are not most likely planning to pay that amount of cash for a camera while they can have reasonable good HD quality in their pockets for a lot less money (I gave my wife a pocket HD cam for her birthday a year ago, it was only 100 euro and it has about 7mbs bitrate, to my standards it would not be usable in a production but my wife loves it and she uses it everytime she goes walking with our dogs, it's even waterproof. She raves about it's image quality and how easy it is to upload her creations to youtube.

Professionals on the other hand are more concerned about how they are perceived when carrying something this small, they can get away with filming with a dslr but they rather keep these small handicams for their holidays. I have had issues about how I look with such a small camera but my clients are luckely not that concerned about this as I mainly do weddings, they only care about the output.

I now have one larger backpack which holds 5 camera's and 3 lenses, two 550d's, two cx730's and one xr520 and this for a total price less then, let"s say, a ex1. I know a ex1 is a much better camera overall but the sum of my 5 different camera's give me much better production value then one ex1. I can shoot ceremonies with 3 camera's all by myself or quickly grab my steadicam that has one dslr mounted permanently or just take the second dslr for those very shallow dof creative shots. For me as a solo shooter in the wedding market these small swiss knive handicams are all I need, but that is probably just a very small piece of the pie if you look at consumer and professional videomarket in general which could explain why these camera's are not that popular.

Not sure how the cx700 compares to the xr520 but the biggest difference I see between my xr520 and cx730 is that it produces much less noise at max gain, 24db on the xr520 is not really usable but it is on the 730, the stabilization is also much better since the lens moves as well adding additional stabilization. It only becomes unusable on a tripod and there you must turn it off (which you normally always should but it's very obvious on this camera, once you zoom in and slowly pan, the image moves all over the place as the camera tries to compensate and stabilize) and it produces a bit flatter image (a bit less contrast and saturation and it seems that there is less sharpening going on making the image look a bit more natural) which makes it easier in post to match with other camera's.

Also about the high price, in Europe the cx740 is 250 euro more expensive then a cx730, I just bought a 70 euro 32gb class 10 sandisc card meaning I saved 180 euro since I don't need that projector. With the cashback that ended a few days ago I saved another 100 euro meaning I paid 840 euro for this camera which is not overpriced at all, the 740 model though is kinda overpriced which is probably another reason why you don't hear that much about it.

I did see however when searching videoreviews is that these cx760 models with their advanced ois is very popular with people that use these mini helicopters to make areal shots.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

You are right, I have not used the camera and I also got the different models mixed up. Amazon lists the current price of the CX760 at $1499.99 while the HMC40 without XLR adaptor is $1649.99. Three 1/4" sensors have about 50% more surface area than a single 1/2.88" sensor; however, the backside illuminated design of the Sony sensor has greatly increased sensitivity. Thanks for stepping in to clear up the confusion my previous post might have caused.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Hmmm, may have just convinced me to stick with "last year's model" - the OIS made a big jump right after the XR500/520 with the addition of "roll" axis control, and there have been incremental improvements in the sensors with each generation... though not a lot from the later 5xx series cameras, which were tweaked a bit more than the first ones

I've never had a major problem on tripod with the camera going overboard with IS, even if I forget to turn it off. But that's with the 550 and 700, so they don't have the "crazy eyeball" that the new ones do. I guess that feature is a mixed bag, since it does look to really stabilize handheld footage. I do OK with the active stabilization of the earlier ones, but the eyeball has been intrigueing!

I definitely do the "one man show" trick as well, and with a pretty similar configuration, plus a couple DSC-TX100's for extra angles (good video for the most part, and dirt cheap when they closed 'em out). Every once in a while there's an "urge" for something "bigger", but I really can't justify one cam that costs almost as much as what I've got in my bag of tricks, and I can't complain about the images I'm getting. I'm fairly certain I wouldn't get 3-4x better images from a "big" camera, and I get more "use" out of the extra angles.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I have a "button" assigned to it in the viewfinder so I can access it quickly and turn it on or off depending on the situation, but it can be a pain as you really need to stay focused during run and gun so that you don't forget. On all my previous camera's I could let the IS on on a tripod (which was much safer if I needed to go on and off a tripod a lot quickly) but this one goes haywire if you do (most obvious if you zoom in, not a problem when fully wide). I have had one time that I forgot to turn it on again when going to handheld and the footage shakes a lot, even with the lens wide. Luckily Edius 6.5 with it new stabilization plugin saved the day.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Interesting points. Thanks guys. I too, use a tripod alot when videoing. And there are many occasions when I switch back and forth between the tripod and hand held shooting. From what I have read here, it gives me some pause when considering the 760. However, I am really intrigued with the low light capabilities, as well as the improved image qualities and extended zoom of the CX760. From what Noa has said about assigning a "button" to turn on and off the stabilizer, it does give me some hope still. Price is steep though for the CX760, which begs the question; is the cams advances worth the high price?

Have not done any reasearch into the other Sony cams in the 700 series to know about performance, etc.

Mike

Re: What about the CX760?
 

In Europe you have the cx730/740, The cx730 however doesn't have that build in projector or build in memory like the cx740 but is 308 dollar cheaper, I bhought myself a 85 dollar sandisc 32 gb class 10 card so saved quite a lot as I don't need that projector.

On the left hand side of the lcd screen there are 3 buttons you can assign different functions to, it's not a real button but touch activated icons on the lcd screen, I have assigned the OIS, White balance and spotfocus to it. 3 of the most used functions. Exposure I have assigned to the small wheel in the front of the camera, spotfocus is very good as well, just press with your finger on an area you want in focus and the camera does it, I do always check with a hoodloupe lcd magnifier if the camera has focussed right, eventhough the lcd screen is very sharp, it is not possible for me to judge from a distance if the focus is spot on but I can with the hoodloupe. You can also easily manual controll the focus as the screen magnifies during focusing and has the option to use peaking in different colors, I also realy like the fact that I can use zebra's. This tiny cam is packed with features.

The optical zoom is not that great in reach but the wide angle is awesome :), I have not tested it but if you zoom in electronically the image quality should decrease quite fast.

In my line of work I NEED low light capable camera's but I don't have the budget for a Sony fs100, but at 1/6th of the price I have a camera that I can use alongside my dslr's with practical the same lowlight performance. Compared to my xh-a1 with high gain it's like night and day.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I've used my NX70 (same chip/lens as some of the CX range, I forget which one). It actually amazes me in low light. OK, it's not BBC broadcast quality, but it depends on your market.

I've had a couple of occasions recently where I was sure I just wasn't going to get the shot (I shoot steam trains and related events). The sun has set, the skies are darkening, and every time the NX70 gives me something usable, even after dark!

Two recent events had be on a relatively dark station platform shooting a jazz band, and another time I got a steam train racing along the main line after sunset. Considering the total lack of light, I found the results worked out really well, and generally you don't notice the grain unless you're a pixel-peeper.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I made a quick and dirty comparison at one of my last weddings to show the low light perfomance, I did this because one of the users on this forum working with much more expensive camera's didn't believe me and asked to show instead of tell, so I did, and after my video all went silent :) I did another quick comparison at my last wedding, when I have the time I"ll put it up as well.

cx730 vs t2i - YouTube

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Hi Noa. I think the optical zoom, or at least the extended zoom, goes up to 17X. I agree that the electrical zoom is pretty weak. I am glad to hear about the low light capability.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Optical zoom is only 10x and since it starts so wide that doesn't give you that much to work with, it's ok for most stuff but in some occasions I miss the 20x zoom from my xh-a1.
Once you go beyond that 10x zoom the image will start to deteriorate, that's why I never used such a function.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Got another one to show off the low light.

The first part it was my samyang 14mm f2.8 lens at 1600 iso with a neutral preset and as you will see the difference is quite big but I have been experimenting with the technicolor cinestyle preset and that makes a big difference as well, you only get a very flat image but in very dark places it does give you much more to work with. I"ll be using that preset more with my 14mm lens if needed, it can mean the difference between a usable or not usable shot.

The second example is at a candlelight table (no other light, just the candles) compared with a 35mm f1.4, I think what the cx730 can accomplish is pretty amazing if you see it blends well with fast primes.

cx730 vs t2I low light 2 - YouTube

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I must say I too am a tad surprised that more is not being said about the CX760 but I can easily concur with the comments in this thread regarding image quality - that is the way a professional might be perceived shooting with this type of cam, and the general comments regarding market niches and so on. In view of the fact that I am not a professional nor am I a cell phone shooter but rather one who is somewhere inbetween and who already has way too many image capturing device, but the thing about the CX760 I find intriguing is the outrageously excellent image stabilization feature.

Before I contribute to Sony, B&H and the New Zealand government’s bottom line (GST 15%) I have a question. I should point out that I have (among others) a CX700v, a NEX 5n with the E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS lens semi-permanently attached, and my most recent acquisition a HX200v.

The thing is I rarely use the CX700v as I find the HX200v superior regarding image quality resulting I believe from the seemingly superior image stabilization capabilities and or course the 30x reach of the lens. But even when comparing apples to apples (same zoom) tripod mounted I prefer the image the HX200v delivers. I should point out that while the NEX 5n delights me regarding still photographs as yet I remain somewhat unenthusiastic about the video shallow DOF feature that is all the rage, or was not that long ago.

But the idea of a CX700v with much better image quality - sharper and better colours - and outstanding image stabilization capability I do find compelling as a general walk-around shooting device.

Is that in fact rather much what the CX760 is?

Re: What about the CX760?
 

No, the 760 is not "that" better, if I compare to my cx730 to my xr520, side by side, it's sometimes hard to tell the difference and the 520 is already an older generation and has a smaller lens, only the xr520 has some more sharpening going on and has more contrast giving it's image a bit forced look. the cx730's image is a bit more natural looking and flatter and you can see Sony went easy on the image enhancements, this makes it easier to CC in post to match other camera's.

Biggest difference is how noise is handled at high gains and there I see very obvious improvements, compared to a cx700 the OIS should be a bit better as well but don't expect miracles, on youtube you see a lot of people walking around with this thing but this is not how you normally make video, you stand still, point and shoot and then yes, the OIS is very good when zoomed in and the rolling eyeball takes good care of any vibrations.

Below an example how good it is, this is a handheld shot, about waist height, zoomed in 10x. You see me holding it steady for a while and then slowly zooming out so you have a good idea about the zooming distance.

vespa - YouTube

edit: correction, it was filmed when the camera was in active mode to stabilize the image and then the extended zoom is activated which gives it 17x reach.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Thanks for posting that video Noa.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I have this camera and like it. My level of knowledge is far below anyone on this site though, and this is my first camera over $250.

Here is one of my videos, and it shows off the awesome slow motion filming feature of the camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDQ...7&feature=plcp

Here's a kid pitching baseball and it shows his curveball

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwdp...feature=relmfu

I enjoy using the camera, but I just film things around and things I like. This is not my job, nor do I make any money from this.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

We've been flying the CX760 around and the stabilization is impressive. The gimbal does most of the work keeping the camera level but the BOSS system is perfect at eliminating small servo anomalies. Would love for Sony to release something at this size with a higher bit rate and full manual control.

nick

that's some pretty impressive stuff, was all that sony cx footage? When you fly the sony, is there also some pan and tilt controll during flight, like how was the tilt shot at 00:55 done? About higher bitrate, the sony can do 28mbs 50/60p, that's as high as it can get for avchd.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

It would have been nice if the CX760 had been released WORLDWIDE Sony! What are you thinking??

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Don't you have the cx730/740 equivalent where you live?

Re: What about the CX760?
 

No, the PJ760E is the only one and its a lot more expensive.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Hi Nick,

I have a question for you, and this could seem like it makes 0 sense, or how in the world can I answer it, but I want to try and ask it anyway.

If you look at my video or videos, shot with the cx760v, and then look at your videos, yours look professional, and mine look like a noob holding a cheap camera.

I know you had no way to control light on those shots because they were all outside beautiful shots, but what did you do to get it that professional look instead of that "live look"

Any advice on settings, or what I could try to achieve something similar.

Thanks Nick, that was incredible footage. (notice that mine was not mentioned in the same breath)

Re: What about the CX760?
 

So Sony does sell the 760 where you live? Just asking because your earlier comment seems to indicate that's not the case.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Noa, I'm not extremely familiar with the AVCHD codec so it's interesting to know the upper limit is 28 mega bits. Wish it could do 50+. :) Almost all of that footage was from the 760 with just a few shots from a 5 & 7D Canon DSLR. The gimbal has full pan/tilt/roll control and the camera operator manipulates it as they wish to get the shot required. The SUP shot @ 0:55 started as a straight down vertical and then I lead and accelerated past them while descending. At the same time the camera was tilted up to reveal the horizon. It's a bit of a dance and between the two of us (pilot/camera) we are constantly coordinating to get the shot we want. It doesn't always work out.

Bob, my best guess that your footage looks so much like 'video' is most likely the frame rate. We shoot almost everything at 24P. Give it a try and see what you think. Whenever we are asked to shot stuff at 60 I always cringe a little because I know it's going to look like a soap opera. :D

nick

Re: What about the CX760?
 

thx for sharing,
have seen quite some copter videos but yours looks very good when it comes to controlling the motion, it looks like it's shot from a real helicopter with expensive stabilised equipment.

Have you tried shooting at 60P instead of 24P? If I shoot at 25p or at 50P I honestly can't see any difference in the image I get, only that with 25p I need to be very carefull when panning and with 50P I don't as I have the double amount of full frames, so for this reason I have been shooting 50P the last weddings I did.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

The CX and PJ are not the same.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Aren't RCs still illegal in the US? As far as I know, the FAA still haven't set their guidelines and rules for commercial video/photo RC flying.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...-says-faa.html

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Noa, the look of different frame rates can be very subjective. I work with a variety of different cameras and many times we shoot 60P. But shooting at 24/25 provides a look I happen to like- it looks less like traditional video to me. It's true you need to be careful with fast motion or quick camera moves at 24 but I tolerate that. Certainly 50/60P has more information and more visual data to manipulate in post so that can be a very good thing. And factors like who is watching your material, what they watch it on, where they watch it and other things will all help determine what frame rate to shoot a project with. In my opinion, with you being in Europe, shooting weddings at 50P makes perfect sense. I wish the little 760 had a 30P option.

Warren, I don't want to take this thread off topic too much but that is a gray area for sure. The FAA says it is not legal but no FAR's currently exist that specifically address this. For the past four years they have been drafting and redrafting a notice of proposed rulemaking that specifically addresses commercial sUAS but have yet to release it. They keep pushing back the date. Obama's mandate to congress and the FAA to integrate commercial use of sUAS by 2015 is encouraging and in the meanwhile we are operating by the same primary rules as law enforcement and public agency users- line of sight ops, stay under 400' and no overflight of crowds/persons. I'm a little bit of a libertarian and I find the FAA's current restriction arbitrary. The fact we can do this for recreation or research use is fine but commercial use is not is unfair in my view. I do understand that safety must always be first and foremost and avoiding full size aircraft is priority one. As a practical matter we rarely fly over 50' AGL and usually under 20'. The eye level to 20' range is really where this kind of a platform shines and what produces the magic. Other than an airport most full size aircraft are never at those heights so I feel it's reasonable to operate at or below tree top level. I'm actually an advocate for FAA regulation of this kind of stuff as long as it's fair and equitable. I can not stress enough that it must be fair and equitable. If they only cater to special interests and closed doors (for Boeing, Insitu, Lockheed and other DoD, big player types) they will open a pandoras box of contempt and rogue operators. And maybe even class action suits. It has to be fair- i.e. a micro business or single operator is able to demonstrate proficiency and get a ticket to operate commercially for a few $k or less. If they don't do that it's not going to work because the cat is already out of the bag- the growth of RC aircraft doing aerials has been almost logarithmic. From a reasonable persons perspective there is absolutely no reason we can't be worked into the system (line of sight/under 400' AGL and insured).

Jalan, I think the CX and PJ are very similar with the only difference being that one has a built in projector on the flip out LCD. I believe the camera and optics are otherwise identical.

nick

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I see where the price has dropped on this camcorder. If it can drop some more then I would seriously consider buying one. The only thing that is holding me back, besides the price, is the possible frailty of the moving lens.....can it withstand the punishment of being in the field: like out of doors in the mountains, woods, with me being on horseback, etc.

Mike

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I often move from group to troop filming the while. Is the advanced stabiliser going to be a help or a liability in this situation ? I can see the advantage when following people in more or less a straight line but what about following them at right angles when you are stationary and forced to pan the camera ?

Re: What about the CX760?
 

filmed yesterday a general performance from a stage show.
Filmed with a sony hxr-nx3, nex-ea50 and a panasonic hx-x920.

I placed the little panasonic on stage on side. When i watched the footage I noticed this camcorder
is too noisy. (the stage was not fairly light up) It was in intelligent auto. My nx3 was zoomed in for close ups and was even less noisy.

Now the question is: I'm thinking to sell my HC-X920 and buy and buy a second hand CX730/740.
Based on the sony noise from my nx3 the cx730/740 must be have less noise than my panasonic.

I read about the panasonic it doesn't uses real 1/2inch sensors but 1/2.3" total sensor size: Approx. 1/4" active area.

So the sensor in the little sony is bigger.

Can someone help me out? My wife will kill me if I buy the sony and find out that I better kept my panasonic. I'm only concerned/interested about the low light noise.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

Hi Tom, If you want you can drop by my place and compare your camera against my sony cx730, I have 2 of them and no, I"m not selling :) but you are always welcome to shoot some testfootage. Just that you know, I moved since beginning this year and live in Heusden-Zolder now.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

NOA, just bought a second hand CX730E this weekend for only 125 euro + external microphone + 32gig SD card. I wasn't looking for an extra camcorder but I saw this and I thought: that's an amazing deal for that price (was on kapaza.be)

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I still use my cx730's for specific assignments and no way I"m going to sell them :)

Re: What about the CX760?
 

my cx730 doesn't work anymore. When opening the screen it does not start even when pressing the power button.

When attaching the power supply it gets power, I see the orange color from power. But when opening the screen the orange color goes away.

I think the only solution is repairing but this in old camcorder and the cost will be too much I guess. I loved the optical balance system.

Re: What about the CX760?
 

I had a Sony 96Gb HDR-PJ790 but it developed a problem with a speck of dust inside the sealed lens assembly which resulted in it being unusable, I replaced it with a Sony AX53 4K which has the same BOSS system of the PJ970 or CX730.

R.