Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

It looks like Tom is protecting his lens from nuclear explosions and major sun flares.! That camera is now as big as the rover ESA just landed on a comet! In fact, he could mount solar panels on those barn doors and power the camera.

Chris, Thank you for all of the time and effort you put into sharing your experience with all of us on this forum. This tread is just one of many examples of what you do here!

Steve

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Steve

My big problem is that I still don't listen!! Yeah I just HAD to also get matte boxes and the camera was so darn front heavy I was expecting to pull a muscle in my back! I sold off the matte boxes quite fast. I would think that the boxes combined with a decent lens would more than equal the weight of the camera!

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

can I use this rod for using a steadycam?
Can I put the rod into a steadycam? After filming carnival and walked all the time the footage is not realy steady.

Look @ my trailer here:


@ 2min06 sec you see what I mean when filming and walking. I think a steadycam would be usefull for this.
But a steadycam without an "arm" will be too heavy. Was walking around for about 3 hours!

I have no experience with a steadycam.

@Chris, my back was still ok after this filming. Can't thank you enough for this.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom

Nice job there!! Yes you are correct in saying that the support rod will not work like a stedicam ! It's perfect when you are in one place but will NOT absorb any shock movements as you walk or run. You need a stedicam for moving shots. It's OK if you move very slowly but as you walk with the rod you will find it tends to move left and right creating bumps in the footage. It certainly does help a LOT by stopping your arms getting tired!!!

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hey Chris, thx for the answer but still don't know if I can put the the rod into a steadycam?
Could I put the flexible joint from the rod into the bottom of the grip of a steadycam?

This could save me a lot of money.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Do you mean to use a steadicam vest and arm and to suspend the rod and camera on that arm, instead of using a steadicam?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Noa

I think he means put the camera on a handheld stedicam and then insert the rod into the handle so you are not trying to hold up the sled and camera with your arm but rather with your rod and belt. No vest or arm are involved.

Tom I have never tried it and have no idea if it would work but my initial reaction would be don't as you have no control really. Rather get a vest and arm and put the sled on that and put the rod away..it's designed for static shots only. There are a couple are very well made stedicams in China now ...I scrapped my big heavy rig and got a Wieldy one ..carbon fibre sled, well machined arm and a beautiful vest and with the cam it all weighs under 10kg!! Flies like a dream too!! I paid under $600 for the whole deal but you might have to lighten your EA-50 a bit!! Yours is really overloaded with balance weights and extra bits and pieces.

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

That would not work well, that rod doesn't function like a vest and arm does so you still would be introducing unwanted movements while you walk and just add the extra weight of the steadicam itself.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

That's why I said "don't" ...using a stedicam even with a dual arm still requires you to walk like a cat smoothly and quietly so imagine if you walk without an arm? The sled with simply jump around ! As you walk with a waist belt and rod as you lift each leg the rod will kick over towards the opposite side. Try putting on the waist belt with the rod inserted with no camera and walk forward with both hands on the rod and as you walk feel how much it kicks to the left and right as your take steps. As Noa says too ..it won't work so don't even try it ... it's brilliant for long sequences BUT you have to say in one place !! If you need to move, get a stedicam and vest setup

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

thx for the answers Noa and Chris. Have looked for a cheap steadycam with vest and arm and found this one:


cost here in Belgium only 599 euro. (with arm + vest) For me it will be more than enough/good.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hey Tom,

Before you order it wait for Chris to chime in. He just bought a discounted rig he is very happy with. I would find out the details on that one too.

Steve

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Don't underestimate the weight of such a rig including your camera and the strain it will put on your back, a few years back I hired a steadicam operator for a few jobs, before I had my blackbird, and he had a steadicam pilot where he flew a sony fx1000 on. After a 3 hour event and not even using the camera continuously he was totally exhausted and he was a big athletic guy, so eventhough it might have looked like a walk in the park for a guy of his posture it only showed how much effort it took to fly for longer periods. I think Chris can share that experience as well as he uses one.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Thanks Guys

Ok I have been the proud (or not so proud) owmer of not one but FOUR flycam rigs I had a Flycam 5000 and then a Flycam 6000 which was too heavy so I bought another flycam 5000 and finally replaced it with a flycam 5500 which is probably the pick of the bunch. They have all dropped substantially in price since I had them.

Honestly the build quality is adequate, but not brilliant on the Indian rigs and they do work. However Tom you need to strip all the bits and pieces off your camera (rails, counter weight, matte box) to be practical.

Yes, I now have a bit of a hybrid system made by Wieldy and Came-TV in China ...and it's 50% lighter than what my Flycam 5500 used to be fully laden and as Noa says after 30 minutes with a 15-20kg load on you your back is on fire and you are pouring sweat!! It's NOT easy work so getting down to half my original rig load helped me a LOT survive even a 15 minute session.

If you strip your accessories off your camera you can get away with the Flycam 5000 it's a single arm rig that does work but tends to be bouncier than dual arm rigs

Look around at Laing, Wieldy and Came-TV ..they are engineered a lot better but cost more ...if you want something just to "try out" and sell later on eBay grab a Flycam 5000 Comfort vest and sled.

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

thx Chris but is there a huge difference between single and dual arms?
The footage I have seen online from the flycam 5000 looks pretty good to me. (more than good enough in my opinion for mostly hobby)

Yes, I will strip down my nex-ea50. the counterweight (1,2kg) and the manfrotto sympla handles (thought also about 1kg). Would like to keep the mattebox. The weight will be around 3 kg - max 3,5 kg.

My sony hxr-nx3 is 2,7 kg.

Because I survived it with the rod I think I will survive it with the flycam 5000?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

The wheight distribution is totally different between en vest/arm and a rod, if you say you can walk around 3 hours with that rod suspended on a belt that's around your waist you can't do the same with a vest and arm, it will put a lot more strain on your back.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom

A lot of people look at a rig and see that it says "1 - 7.5kg" Great , your cam will be 3.5kg BUT most sled ratings INCLUDE the sled weight not just the camera! My Wieldy sled is a light carbon fibre and is 2.2kg ..my camera is about the same so the arm has to support nearly 5kg ... be careful with that!!

Seriously what Noa says is very true ... a rig weighing a few kilos will kill your back after 30 minutes... remember you are carrying the arm, the vest the sled and the camera!!! I would take off the rail and matte box too ...your matte box is quite heavy up front and just the box and rail add over 1kg to the rig.

A single arm is very "bouncy" you will have issues trying to keep your top frame consistent and it will tend to bob up and down a bit ... a dual arm is better as the rear bones and springs provide the lift and the front bones and springs keep the camera level.

Personally I found the comfort arm and vest simply not strong enough to take my Panasonic HMC80's which are about the same as the EA-50 .. however the choice is yours

Just for interest my camera also uses a Tamron 10-24mm lens up front in stedicam mode with a fixed focus ..at 10mm it's wide enough to be in focus set to 2.5' on the lens, from 2' to infinity ....the power zoom will struggle to autofocus a bit too!!

Stedicams are another world completely but once you use them they are quite addictive!! Love the easy camera movements you can achieve!!!

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

ok, chris and Noa. I will skip the flycam 5000. Looking at the wieldy carbon steadycam with dual arms. A bit more expensive (still not expensive compared to brand names)

At this moment I think go for that one.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

I purchaded the flycam HD-3000 with arm and vest and received it today. Glad I bought the arm and vest because it's heavy. I used my sony hxr-nx3 which is 2.8 kg. Stil testing and learning how to setup. and watch tutorials and tips.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom

That's neat ..Did they give you the quick release plate with it as well?? It does make fitting the camera to the top sled a LOT easier. They are so cheap now definitely worth getting!! Just remember to keep your camera weight down to a minimum as their "3.5kg" estimates are often wrong .. You need your EA-50 at a maximum of 2kg .. no more otherwise you will find the springs on the arm will bottom out!! I would run it without your rail and matte box to save top weight.

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

hey Ron,

yes, i comes with a quick release plate. I removed the mattebox, ... But still weights about 3 kg with battery and the kitlens. I did a testshot today without the arm and vest. After balancing it it worked great. But after a while a of testing my arm was getting tired.

Now I wanted it to test with arm and vest but I don't how to use it. Because I'm righthanded I thought to use the spring on the right side?

See the pictures and the testmovie

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

and the pictures

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Perfect Tom

There is no specific side to use the rig. Most can work on the left or the right... Yours is a centre mount so all you need to do is swing the solid arm over to the left or the right. Try both sides and see what feels more comfortable ...I have my arm on my right ..but that's my preference.

Sounds like you have everything set up well and you weight looks about right ...If you hold the arm gently the top of the spring frame should be horizontal ..that way you have maximum boom up and boom down distances.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom! I see you are still using the ea50, just a quick question, the way you hold teh steadicam with your left hand on the photo's, is that the way you hold it while you are flying?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Noa, I hold the handle with my right hand because I'm right handed.
I use my left hand to gently guide the flycam. And that's so diificult in the beginning. When I start to walk I loose the control.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

But do you hold the vertical rod as low down as shown in the pictures?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Yes Noa, I think I walk like that. Still learning how to hold it and walk.

With my right hand i can hold the handle lower and closer to me. otherwise the spring bump the handle all the way up.

Always nice to hear some tips to use it

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Your left hand that controlls the direction your camera is facing is positioned way to low, you should use that hand only to gently touch the vertical bar just below the position of the handle and with gently touching I mean like pinching/tapping it with 2 or 3 fingers just to give it direction and if it's going to the right direction don't touch it anymore. Nver grab that bar with your full hand. Your balance seems to be off as well and it looks bottom heavy, if you would test it I would do that inside where there is no wind beause that can trow it off balance. Just google on steadicam balancing and you will find many video how to balance and use a steadiam properly.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom

The correct left hand position should be your thumb and 3 fingers very gently touching the post just below the gimbal ..it's only for control and rotation. If you take your left hand away the sled should just sit there as long as you stand still ... also in the normal straight ahead position your right hand only needs to also lightly tough the foam handle ..nothing harder! If you have to fight the arm to keep the camera in position then it's not set up right at all. If you stand still and let both hands go what happens?? The camera and sled should remain directly in front of you hands free and the arm bones top and bottom should be horizontal ... If any effort is needed to control the camera and sled then you need to redo your setup, balance and dynamic balance!! I honestly think that a single spring arm is not tough enough on that rig for a 3kg camera ...you may need to get a bigger spring if it bottoms out???

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

NOa, Chris,

I looked several tutorials for setting this up. The drop time is about 2 seconds I think. When I stand still the camcorder is balanced correcly I think. It's not gong to the front or back and not going to left or right

But when I start walking it begins to turn or going left or right of front or back. Maybe not balanced perfectly or I have to do lots of practising.with my left hand I touch i gently.
But touching gently seems not strong enough to avoid it turning

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

If it sways left or right or front to back means it's not balanced right, when it starts to turn left or right when you move doesn't sound normal to me, might be an inferior quality gimbal that is causing this. Does it also turn left or right when you hold it still?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Noa, Chris,

I just did a test. Sorry for the bad quality. My wife filmed with a camera

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUcb...ature=youtu.be

Let me know what's still wrong, what's already good,... thank you!

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Hi Tom

That looks pretty good for balance and the springs also look about right. OK, here's what is wrong.. your arm connection to the vest is MUCH too high ..see how high the camera is?? On the front of the vest is adjustments for the static arm connector joint ..drop that down about 6" at least!! It's way ,way too high!!! I can see that your own arm is getting in the way of the spring arm so everything should be a LOT lower.. Just readjust the front plate of the vest so the static arm is much lower ..it should be close to your waist and the camera when static should be around shoulder height or even lower .. I can see the camera is blocking your vision which is crazy ..the top of your EA-50 needs to be no higher than your cheek ...If you look at your wife's video you will see that you are pulling the whole arm down just to see where you are going. Now the other thing you need to get is an LCD display and put it on the bottom sled where you can see what you are shooting ... Just find one they normally sells for use in cars (7" TFT LCD) and then get a CCTV 12v lithium battery to power it ...(should be less than $50.00) ... With the camera at the correct stedicam height you should NOT be able to see the camera EVF as it will be too low ..hence the need for a bottom LCD.

Hope this helps

Chris

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

hey Chris,

thx for wathing my video. Now you said this from it's way too high my wife confirmed what you are saying.
I was so focused on balancing I didn't put attention on that. Now I lowered the vest and now it's at the lowest setting. It looks and feels much better now!

Thank you so much again. I will practice again soon with this new adjustments.

The LCD screen looks perfectly to watch without an external monitor.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Much better Tom

I bet that's a lot more comfortable too!! Your camera is now at the correct height and the spring tension looks pretty much perfect too!! You will find that it will be much easier to fly too and your elbow will be clear of the spring arm.

Also get your drop time closer to 3 seconds ..(proper 3 seconds so count 1001, 1002, 1003) You will find that most 2 second drops are more like 1.5 seconds ...when you let the sled go from horizontal the sled should appear to almost float before dropping and needs to swing thru the centre just before you say the "1003" ... a bottom heavy sled will give you annoying sway which you don't want especially with a single spring arm!!

Now go out and shoot some footage!!

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

I shoot some footage for real this time. I walked 3 hours around with the nex-ea50 and the flycam HD-3000 +arm and vest. My back didn't hurt surprisingly. only my shoulders hurt a bit.

Here is a quick testvideo of it. I'm happy with the result.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

I have to film this sunday carnival and it will rain.
Do I have to protect the arm and vest against the rain? Or is this rain proof?

Here was a test movie

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

No it's not rain proof! same as your camera, you have to protect everything from water.

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Somebody told me to use silicon spray to protect it. Do yo have experience with this?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Today and tomorrow there will be lost of wind. mY test just outside was not so smooth. Do I have to change the droptime of my flycam? A faster droptime in windy conditions?

Re: Saved by the Rod!
 

Your steadicam will be swaying in all directions if it's too bottom heavy but it will help if there is wind, steadicams just don't like windy conditions, only steadicams with 3 axis gimbals will keep level even with hard wind.