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-   Sony HVR-Z7 / HVR-S270 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-z7-hvr-s270/)
-   -   2 new Sony HDV cams with interchangeable lens (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-hvr-z7-hvr-s270/103098-2-new-sony-hdv-cams-interchangeable-lens.html)

Marcus van Bavel November 14th, 2007 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Chappell (Post 775602)
I'm not saying that's bad, but other than the fact that the HVX200 is putting the video on a P2 card, the process it uses to achieve 1080 24p is not unique among cameras under the 15k price tag that the writer made reference to. In fact, it seems very similar to the JVC HD series process.

Being we are all trying to learn the facts, the little details can be important. And as I say that, if one of the HVX200 wizards has a better explanation, or can explain where I am misguided I would welcome that info. I really admire this camera and want to understand all of this stuff.

If the HVX200 records 1080 24p at full resolution, to tape or P2, I will buy one. But so far, I haven't found that to be the case.
There's no quality difference between 1080/24PA and (if it were to exist) 1080/24P native. It's just a matter of removing some extra frames.
Applications like DVFilm Maker, RayMaker, and plugins like Raylight for Vegas can remove the pulldown without any recompression or loss of quality, they simply skip over the redundant frames.

Joel Chappell November 14th, 2007 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus van Bavel (Post 775618)
There's no quality difference between 1080/24PA and (if it were to exist) 1080/24P native. It's just a matter of removing some extra frames.
Applications like DVFilm Maker, RayMaker, and plugins like Raylight for Vegas can remove the pulldown without any recompression or loss of quality, they simply skip over the redundant frames.

The only thing I was pointing out, is that the HVX200 performs pulldown to achieve 1080 24p... not that the image quality suffers because of it. It is simply the process that it uses to produce 1080 24p.

This new camera from Sony, appears to operate in a very similar way to the HVX200.

That's all.

Heath McKnight November 14th, 2007 08:24 PM
Marcus is the man; he owns www.dvfilm.com and I highly, highly recommend his software. I've used DVFilm Maker a lot. I reviewed his "Shooting Digital" book here.

Heath

Marcus van Bavel November 14th, 2007 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Chappell (Post 775624)
The only thing I was pointing out, is that the HVX200 performs pulldown to achieve 1080 24p... not that the image quality suffers because of it. It is simply the process that it uses to produce 1080 24p.

But that's not an accurate statement. Rather it acquires 1080 at "true" 24p and in order to make it compatible with older editing systems, it then adds pulldown to convert it to 60i. But removing the pulldown restores the original 24P.

Joel Chappell November 14th, 2007 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus van Bavel (Post 775646)
But that's not an accurate statement. Rather it acquires 1080 at "true" 24p and in order to make it compatible with older editing systems, it then adds pulldown to convert it to 60i. But removing the pulldown restores the original 24P.
Nevermind... I see it. It starts with 1080 60p Native. All other streams are derived from that. Final output depends on medium and compression...

Thanks.

John Bosco Jr. November 14th, 2007 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Boston (Post 741214)
Perhaps, but many news outlets won't even consider using cameras with 1/3 sensors. They want 2/3 because of the wide variety of scenarios the cameras have to operate in with available light.

Have to say, those are some good looking cameras and are taking the HDV format much further than I would have imagined.

-gb-
I understand that the ABC affliate here in Tampa, Florida is looking to supply their news photographers with JVC 250s. I guess cheap high definition access shoots down the 2/3rd inch sensor theory.

Adam Sparks November 14th, 2007 09:52 PM
Love the options on the Z7! I'm curious, with the CF unit on the back of the Z7, where does the battery fit?

Ethan Cooper November 14th, 2007 10:15 PM
Adam,
I wondered the same thing myself.

Marcus van Bavel November 14th, 2007 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Chappell (Post 775648)
It starts with 1080 60p Native. All other streams are derived from that. Thanks.

Another untrue statement. Unfortunately Panasonic is guilty on this one too so I understand everyone's confusion. When the camera is shooting 24P it really is sampling the sensor at 24P. A simple experiment proves this is true. At 24P with the shutter speed set high (around 1/250 for example) you pan over an object rapidly, and then look at the results frame by frame. If it was converting 60P to 24P you would see either blended frames or slightly uneven steps. You don't. It's perfectly even and clean, because it's sampling at 24P just as it should.

Ethan Cooper November 14th, 2007 10:34 PM
Marcus, Joel, Heath, anyone else:
It seems that we're gotten off the topic of discussing the new Sony cams and have gotten into the nuts and bolts of understanding how different camera systems handle the recording of 24p to their various media. Should we create a new thread to discuss this further and leave this thread to it's intended purpose?
If you guys agree, then I'll start the thread. I would like to continue this discussion, but I'm not sure the Z7/S270 thread is the right place to do so.

Heath McKnight November 14th, 2007 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bosco Jr. (Post 775653)
I understand that the ABC affliate here in Tampa, Florida is looking to supply their news photographers with JVC 250s. I guess cheap high definition access shoots down the 2/3rd inch sensor theory.
All Scripps stations have gone HD with the JVC HD250. I used to work at WPTV, and a friend of mine told me they're starting to get them. Exciting! WPTV is the first to broadcast in HD in Florida, but now others are.

heath

Heath McKnight November 14th, 2007 10:40 PM
Start it here. Leave a link and we'll all join up. But I feel this relates to the cameras.

heath

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper (Post 775684)
Marcus, Joel, Heath, anyone else:
It seems that we're gotten off the topic of discussing the new Sony cams and have gotten into the nuts and bolts of understanding how different camera systems handle the recording of 24p to their various media. Should we create a new thread to discuss this further and leave this thread to it's intended purpose?
If you guys agree, then I'll start the thread. I would like to continue this discussion, but I'm not sure the Z7/S270 thread is the right place to do so.

Ethan Cooper November 14th, 2007 11:09 PM
Ok guys, I've started the geeky technical debate/discussion about 24p here


See you there. I have some questions.

Min Lee November 15th, 2007 01:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Sparks (Post 775668)
Love the options on the Z7! I'm curious, with the CF unit on the back of the Z7, where does the battery fit?
If you look at mikko wilson's pic on the link in the first page, there's pics showing the battery in the typical place like the Z1/V1, I assume the CF recorder goes over it somehow. Maybe the battery is entirely enclosed like the Canon A1.

New questions. The price of the Z7 is comparable to the XDCAM EX, any guesses on how it compares picturewise, particularly low light? Any guesses on street price?

Heath McKnight November 15th, 2007 01:18 AM
I think it goes where the handle on the right side is. BIZARRE! Hope they take the F970s!

heath


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