V1U 24P/30P workflow on the Mac?

Alphonse Swinehart · January 18th, 2007, 03:34 PM

I think I got it Brian. It wasn't letting me choose an aspect ratio or frame rate, but the default seemed to capture fine, and cinema tools was able to reverse telecine properly.

Thanks for the work around!

Alphonse

Greg Quinn · January 24th, 2007, 07:24 PM

Still looking for a Mac-based workflow that I can use for editing progressive from the V1U, which doesn't involve down-rezing... any ideas?

Paul Frederick · January 24th, 2007, 07:39 PM

Greg,

Read Brians workflow in post #6 of this thread.. It doesn't involve down-rezing in any way. It works but you can't batch capture.

Greg Quinn · January 24th, 2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Frederick

Greg,

Read Brians workflow in post #6 of this thread.. It doesn't involve down-rezing in any way. It works but you can't batch capture.

Thanks Paul, I didn't read it through - sounds like a real fix, but potentially a lot of work on a long piece with lots of clips. I'll try it out on a music shoot I'm doing this weekend. thanks again.

David Schmerin · February 1st, 2007, 12:00 PM

[QUOTE=Brian Williams]I just shot and cut a little two minute piece so that I could shakedown the camera and the workflow with Final Cut Pro.

Worked pretty nicely.

Shoot 24p Scan A mode. Capture in Final Cut as Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60. Open your capture scratch folder and, one clip at a time, right click the clip and open with cinema tools. Do not move the playhead!! choose reverse telecine, be sure conform to says 23.98 and near the bottom of the screen choose _CD_. After the footage has been pulled down you should see no interlaced frames of any kind. Create a new AIC 1080i60 sequence in FCP, but change its frame rate to 23.98 in sequence settings (you'll see the field dominance switch to none).

Our V1U came in last night... Took it out of the box and set up.

Shot on a Sony V1U set for 24pA. Manual settings for everything. Brought the video into FCP using the AIC. Reversed Telecined with CinemaTools and then rendered out using the H264 Codec so people not running FCP could check this out.

The footage is just some traffic that was passing by when we set the unit up.

ftp://demo:demo@ftp.gotfootage.com

User: demo
Pass: demo

I will leave this up for a week or so if anyone wants to check it out.

Greg Quinn · February 1st, 2007, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE=David Schmerin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Williams

The footage is just some traffic that was passing by when we set the unit up.

ftp://demo:demo@ftp.gotfootage.com

User: demo
Pass: demo

Wasn't able to log into your site, but I agree, it does seem to work. I shot a music video of friend's band at the weekend in 24P "A" mode, and brought it iin via MPEG stream conversion from an M2T file to AIC. The strange thing is that even though the M2T files didn't represent self-contained clips (I captured from various places within a continuous film segment), the conversion to 24P seemed to go fine in Cinema tools. Maybe the camera or software automatically captures from the "A" frame. This is currently all black magic stuff to me, but I'd like to understand further what's actually happening. I'll post a clip when I get the chance.

Noel Evans · February 11th, 2007, 09:49 PM

Process works perfectly thanks for the info.

Alphonse Swinehart · February 12th, 2007, 12:23 PM

Has anyone been able to get 30p to work in FCP?

Heath McKnight · February 22nd, 2007, 10:06 PM

I wrote this for VASST, detailing how to remove the pulldown without using the AIC:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87189

heath

Ricardo Ismach · April 7th, 2007, 12:32 PM

With many, many thanks to the contributions of others on this topic, I have been developing a workflow for capturing 24pA on a V1U and editing on a 1080-24p timeline in FCP. I've been pulling out what little hair is left, wrestling with the reverse telecine (or 24p Advanced pulldown removal), but I think I have found my problem:

My V1U seems to be recording standard pulldown (2:3) even when set to 24p Advanced (24pA) mode!

Here is what I have worked out for capture:

1) I can capture via firewire as 1080i HDV, preserving timecode.
2) I can capture to the Apple intermediate codec. This loses timecode, so that recapture (e.g., for an uncompressed on-line) isn't easy.
3) Or I can capture from the decklink Intensity via HDMI into the DVCPro HD codec (need a RAID to capture uncompressed) - again, no timecode.

4) I can transcode (using Export via QuickTime Conversion) from HDV into a more robust codec - AIC, DVCPro HD, the beta CineForm HD, Avid's DNxHD, even XDCam. All these work, but I haven't looked at issues of dynamic range, vis any conversion to/from RGB...

5) I get stuck on removing the pulldown. The clips were all shot with the V1U set to 24pA, I've triple checked. But FCP doesn't recognize them as advanced pulldown (2:3:3:2), and Cinema Tools reverse telecine dialog doesn't allow selecting the 2:3:3:2 cadence. BUT, in messing around I have found that my clips, shot at 24pA seem to be 24p! Stepping through the frames, the cadence is normal-normal-blended frames-blended frames-normal (or 2:3:2:3 in terms of fields). Using Cinema Tools to remove that standard pulldown yields a perfect 24p clip!

What gives? Busted camera? Did I miss a setting?

Any more advice on workflow here? I know, we all hope FCP will become V1U aware real soon now, and that the CineForm codec for Apple will be able to capture soon. Why can't FCP capture video via HDMI but use firewire for deck control and timecode?

Ricardo

Steve Mullen · April 7th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricardo Ismach

My V1U seems to be recording standard pulldown (2:3) even when set to 24p Advanced (24pA) mode!

It IS recording 2-3 recording. Curious where you read it wasn't.

Ricardo Ismach · April 7th, 2007, 07:50 PM

Whoa - I am not sure where I picked up the notion that the V1's 24pA mode used a 2:3:3:2 cadence. But now that I review things, it all makes sense. For anyone not following this - 24pA uses the same 2:3 cadence as 24p, but resets with every start/stop of the camera, thus easing batch conversion.

So my workflow seems good:

1) Acquire 24pA -> HDV (capturing timecode)
2) Transcode to another codec (AIC vs CineForm vs DNxHD vs ?)
3) Remove pulldown with Cinema Tools
4) Edit at 24p
5) (Optionally re-capture for uncompressed on-line)

Any comments on intermediate codec to use, or the means of transcoding?

Thanks again,

Ricardo

P.S. I just bought a copy of Steve`s eBook (as a show of thanks for participating in forums like this).

Steve Mullen · April 8th, 2007, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricardo Ismach

Transcode to another codec (AIC vs CineForm vs DNxHD vs .

I'm hope at NAB Cineform releases a MacTel version of Connect HD. This will provide HDV capture, 2-3 removal, plus conversion to the CineForm codec. Their codec is a QT codec which means it works in FCP and Media 100. (Yes, it is alive and well.) It will also work with Premiere Pro when it arrives on the MacTel platform.

This provides a path for 720p and 1080i HDV shooters who have been totally dependent on Apple. Of course, if Apple comes through -- this provides a second solution.

Hope you find my book useful.

Lee Berger · April 8th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricardo Ismach

Whoa - I am not sure where I picked up the notion that the V1's 24pA mode used a 2:3:3:2 cadence.

So what I'm hearing is that 24A on the V1 is not 24 Advanced?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 8th, 2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Berger

So what I'm hearing is that 24A on the V1 is not 24 Advanced?

No, what you're hearing is that the 24pA in the Sony camcorder isn't the same as the 24pA in the DVX100.

24p-straight pulldown
24A-Cadence always starts with a new 3:2 set of frames every time you start/stop recording.
GOP format doesn't benefit from the 24pA that you are likely thinking of from the Panny.

February 1st, 2007, 12:00 PM	#20
David Schmerin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 96	Yes, it really does seem to work [QUOTE=Brian Williams]I just shot and cut a little two minute piece so that I could shakedown the camera and the workflow with Final Cut Pro. Worked pretty nicely. Shoot 24p Scan A mode. Capture in Final Cut as Apple Intermediate Codec 1080i60. Open your capture scratch folder and, one clip at a time, right click the clip and open with cinema tools. Do not move the playhead!! choose reverse telecine, be sure conform to says 23.98 and near the bottom of the screen choose _CD_. After the footage has been pulled down you should see no interlaced frames of any kind. Create a new AIC 1080i60 sequence in FCP, but change its frame rate to 23.98 in sequence settings (you'll see the field dominance switch to none). Our V1U came in last night... Took it out of the box and set up. Shot on a Sony V1U set for 24pA. Manual settings for everything. Brought the video into FCP using the AIC. Reversed Telecined with CinemaTools and then rendered out using the H264 Codec so people not running FCP could check this out. The footage is just some traffic that was passing by when we set the unit up. ftp://demo:demo@ftp.gotfootage.com User: demo Pass: demo I will leave this up for a week or so if anyone wants to check it out.

February 22nd, 2007, 10:06 PM	#24
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I wrote this for VASST, detailing how to remove the pulldown without using the AIC: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=87189 heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 7th, 2007, 12:32 PM	#25
Ricardo Ismach Tourist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3	Problems with 24pA recording and capture... With many, many thanks to the contributions of others on this topic, I have been developing a workflow for capturing 24pA on a V1U and editing on a 1080-24p timeline in FCP. I've been pulling out what little hair is left, wrestling with the reverse telecine (or 24p Advanced pulldown removal), but I think I have found my problem: My V1U seems to be recording standard pulldown (2:3) even when set to 24p Advanced (24pA) mode! Here is what I have worked out for capture: 1) I can capture via firewire as 1080i HDV, preserving timecode. 2) I can capture to the Apple intermediate codec. This loses timecode, so that recapture (e.g., for an uncompressed on-line) isn't easy. 3) Or I can capture from the decklink Intensity via HDMI into the DVCPro HD codec (need a RAID to capture uncompressed) - again, no timecode. 4) I can transcode (using Export via QuickTime Conversion) from HDV into a more robust codec - AIC, DVCPro HD, the beta CineForm HD, Avid's DNxHD, even XDCam. All these work, but I haven't looked at issues of dynamic range, vis any conversion to/from RGB... 5) I get stuck on removing the pulldown. The clips were all shot with the V1U set to 24pA, I've triple checked. But FCP doesn't recognize them as advanced pulldown (2:3:3:2), and Cinema Tools reverse telecine dialog doesn't allow selecting the 2:3:3:2 cadence. BUT, in messing around I have found that my clips, shot at 24pA seem to be 24p! Stepping through the frames, the cadence is normal-normal-blended frames-blended frames-normal (or 2:3:2:3 in terms of fields). Using Cinema Tools to remove that standard pulldown yields a perfect 24p clip! What gives? Busted camera? Did I miss a setting? Any more advice on workflow here? I know, we all hope FCP will become V1U aware real soon now, and that the CineForm codec for Apple will be able to capture soon. Why can't FCP capture video via HDMI but use firewire for deck control and timecode? Ricardo __________________ Ricardo Ismach Casual Dog Productions, LLC

April 7th, 2007, 07:50 PM	#27
Ricardo Ismach Tourist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3	Thank you! Whoa - I am not sure where I picked up the notion that the V1's 24pA mode used a 2:3:3:2 cadence. But now that I review things, it all makes sense. For anyone not following this - 24pA uses the same 2:3 cadence as 24p, but resets with every start/stop of the camera, thus easing batch conversion. So my workflow seems good: 1) Acquire 24pA -> HDV (capturing timecode) 2) Transcode to another codec (AIC vs CineForm vs DNxHD vs ?) 3) Remove pulldown with Cinema Tools 4) Edit at 24p 5) (Optionally re-capture for uncompressed on-line) Any comments on intermediate codec to use, or the means of transcoding? Thanks again, Ricardo P.S. I just bought a copy of Steve`s eBook (as a show of thanks for participating in forums like this). __________________ Ricardo Ismach Casual Dog Productions, LLC Last edited by Ricardo Ismach; April 7th, 2007 at 10:50 PM. Reason: Thanks

January 18th, 2007, 03:34 PM	#16
Alphonse Swinehart New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10	I think I got it Brian. It wasn't letting me choose an aspect ratio or frame rate, but the default seemed to capture fine, and cinema tools was able to reverse telecine properly. Thanks for the work around! Alphonse

January 24th, 2007, 07:24 PM	#17
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	Still looking for a Mac-based workflow that I can use for editing progressive from the V1U, which doesn't involve down-rezing... any ideas?

January 24th, 2007, 07:39 PM	#18
Paul Frederick Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: WestChazy, NY Posts: 291	Greg, Read Brians workflow in post #6 of this thread.. It doesn't involve down-rezing in any way. It works but you can't batch capture.

February 11th, 2007, 09:49 PM	#22
Noel Evans Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 157	Process works perfectly thanks for the info.

February 12th, 2007, 12:23 PM	#23
Alphonse Swinehart New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 10	Has anyone been able to get 30p to work in FCP?