That's the sort of thing I was wondering about, that imbalance potentially causing problems.
I still think the PMW500 is the pick of the range at moment - although like a lot of people I do like the optical disc scenario with file-based workflow but with an instant archive.

Steve

Steve I am also seeing the 500 as the pick of the lot.

Hi Paul,

I'm about to order a PMW500 this week. I have made the decision and going for it. The next decision is what cards do I purchase for the 500. I use the MXR adaptors with SDHC cards for my EX1 but I don't know if theses will work in the 500. Sony are selling the Pro cards but man they come with a heavy price attached.
I use the disc system all the time with my Sony PDWf350 and love this work flow but when I travel for extended periods out bush I find taking 10 or more disc's takes up a lot of space. Now the card system I love, you can have a pocket full of theses and go all day without the storage problems of the disc's.

Have you considered having a couple of true SxS cards to record onto initially, then copying all clips across in camera to SDHC? (Maybe more than one copy for security.)

It gives the peace of mind of initial recording to SxS, and since SDHC cards aren't vastly dearer than optical discs they are cheap enough to take 10 with you at a time. You can certainly do this with the PMW350 - I'm assuming the 500 allows for "copy all clips" from one slot to the other?

Thanks David,

Thats what I'm thinking, although If I shoot 4.2.2 at full bit rate I'm wondering if the SDHC cards can handle the data rate. I'll have to look into this further as I'm just approaching this problem now.

Hi Simon,

Sounds like a good move. I have set up a time at Abel for some demo shooting with the 500 and 350 to make sure again before I decide. My choice now is the 500 for the CCD.

As for SxS cards I have only used the Sony SxS Pro cards with my EX1, EX350 and would be sticking with those. I have 6 - 16GB and a couple of 8GB. I would buy two 32GB to add for travel. Also I have placed an order for a Ki Pro Mini to go along with my Nano. I am sure over a few month I will have a favorite, and who knows maybe both are worth having in the kit.

Did you go for the used lens? I am looking again at the Fujinon ZA17x7.6 BERM with CAC. This is what I used on the 350 and F800 with great success. I think it is the best 2/3” HD lens deal on the market new.

Look forward to hearing about your purchase and progress with the camera.

Hi Paul,

I would love to hear your thoughts after testing mate. The lens I'm checking out this week, If it's a no go I'll look at the ZA17x7.6 BERM with CAC again.

Cards I'll have to investigate further as my knowledge with what is on the market is limited. Any thoughts on the limited life span SXS cards? are they worth the purchase?

Cheers

HI Simon,

I will send you an email on the timing of my test, then post findings here.

The lens is great, I tested it against some top glass last spring. It is the same optics as the HA just slightly different build. Look into it.

I don't know off hand the life span of the SxS Pro or other cards. But I do know the Pro cards have twice the life span as the new ones that came out with the 500. I never like to skimp on storage it is not worth it to me or my clients.

The SXS-1 cards are "supposed" to have less cycles than the SXS pro Cards. I believe the life span is still around claimed to be 5 years with a daily cycle, so probably at least 10 years in the real world. Considering SXS-1 are identical on the other specs, being 1/2 the price of SXS Pro made them a no brainer for me. In 10 years, all these cards will be valueless. I wouldn't be surprised if they SXS-1 and SXS Pro cards are identical in all but colour.

Anyone have trouble with SXS-1? Touch wood, mine have been fine.

Mike I am sure you are right, the new SXS-1 cards are the way to go. If it is 5 years of daily use who knows what we will be shooting on at that time. Same card different color, interesting thought.

I did not know there were SXS -G1 and SXS-G1A. Different cards for different cameras. The G1A handles the 50Mbps 422.

Sony SXS cards

That's why I suggested shooting to SxS, then "copy all clips" to SDHC. (Rather than shooting to SDHC direct.) Even if the performance of the SDHC wasn't adequate for direct recording, a lower max write data rate should only slow down the copy process. With no extra equipment other than the camera needed.

You can't use anything other than SxS cards for 50Mb/s. When in 50Mb/s mode the 500 requires that the media is formatted using UDF which overcomes the fat file size limitations. You can't format SD cards using UDF, so you must use SxS if you want to store or record 50Mb/s 4:2:2. or any of the XDCAM HD modes.

Alister, you are a wealth of knowledge, thanks for the update. Is there a SDHC card out at the moment that can handle the data rate? Apart from the SXS ones.

Are you sure about that, Alister? According to wikipedia ( Secure Digital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )
Which would give me hope that it may be possible after a re-format.....? Yes, there are lots of other things which could stop it working, but if I had access to a PMW500, I certainly think it would be worth experimenting to see if a reformat is possible.

The wikipedia link seems to suggest that whilst FAT/FAT32 is normally used with SDHC, it doesn't always have to be the case?

As far as data rate goes, then SDHC *SHOULD* have the theoretical speed to handle 50Mbs, (at least at Class 10) but there will be far less of a safety margin than for 35Mbs. Hence the original suggestion of shooting to SxS and copying all clips, rather than just shooting to SDHC direct.

David I don't think it is worth the risk for the small savings. The SXS-G1A that Mike suggested looks like the best option for shooting 50Mb/s 4:2:2 on the 500.

Shooting 50Mbs direct to SDHC is exactly what I'm *NOT* suggesting doing. Rather shooting to SxS, then in camera copying to SDHC afterwards. Datarate bottlenecks are crucial in real time recording - not in file transfers.

That's assuming (after what Alister says about formatting correctly) it's possible anyway.

Sorry David I misunderstood your post.

While testing the 500, I attempted to format SD card in UDF and was unable to do so.

Ned

Thanks Ned. Oh well, it was worth a try...... :-)

Ned,

When I was at the release of the 500 Sony said that you can only format UDF on the new SxS 1GA or the SxS Pro cards. SD cards will work at 35Mb/s 4:2:0.

Then you'll be surprised to find that the SxS-1 cards have data rates of 1.2 Gb/s and the original cards were only 800 Mb/s. That's 50% speed increase for ingest, playback, and browsing.

The original SXS-1 cards have the same specs as SXS Pro but the new SXS-1A are oddly faster and cheaper than the SXS Pro cards.

I'd say that makes it even more likely that the original SXS-1 line was "invented" to rival Panasonic's cheaper P2 line whilst trying not to annoy people who had just invested in SXS Pro media. I'm only guessing but just maybe that invention involved changing the colour of the cards and claiming the life expectancy was lower. Obviously the newer SXS-1A cards use a different design.

Mike,
Yes you are correct. I meant to say "SxS-1A" cards. Thanks for making that clear.

Not very nice that I spent more on my SxS Pro cards per GB, and now am buying the faster SxS-1GA 64GB for less.

But that is the way it goes buying memory.

Yes. I honestly wasn't even thinking in terms of 35Mbps 4:2:0 because I only really shot in HD 4:2:2.

Sorry Ned I should have figured you knew that.

My PMW-500 is on the way. I will do a detailed review in about a week to 10 days after receiving the camera on Friday. This will be on my blog. Then it gets put to work hard in the coming year.

HDVF35W view finder since I found a used one.
2 - SxS-G1A 64GB cards
Lens is Fujinon ZA17x7.6BERM-M58B
Batteries are Switronix 3 - 130 wh with dual charger
Protabrace carry on bag

I will use my NTG-3 Shotgun and Sennheiser G3 wireless set with two lav's and one handheld.

More soon.

Thanks to everyone for your input which help me decide on the purchase.

Good stuff Paul, think you made a good choice. It could well be that the 500 will be all the camera you need for the next quite a few years to come - hope so.
Steve

Thanks Steve,

That is what I am hoping. This could be the last 2/3" camera I have to purchase. Who knows what is next but this fills a huge void for me.

Thanks for your help on and off the forum.

Congratulations Paul

I have placed an order for the PMW 500, HDV20A view finder, and the HA 16X6.3BERM-M48 lens along with some media.

Hope to have this in my possion within a few weeks.

When I get this I will also do a review.

Cheers

Hey Paul,

In case my email doesn't go through to you, can you provide your thoughts in my thread about the Zacuto rig you used? http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-new-post.html

Thanks

Again, congrats to Paul and the great kit.

I think you should be pleased with both camera and the Fujinon lens

Ned

Simon nice to know you have placed the order. Nice choice on lens, the 6.3 end should be helpful. Hope you solve the PDW350 lens issue quickly.

Steve I responded.

Thank Ned it feels right, and finding a used C35W was very nice.

Thanks paul,

Looking forward to getting the 500 into everyday use. The 350 lens is dead, so I'll use my EX1 for the time being. If I find a good used cheap 1/2'' lens I may throw that on or I'll get a 1/2'' to 2/3'' lens adaptor and use the new one.

Chgeers

A recent PMW 500 review by Ned Soltz, click on link below.

In Review: Sony PMW-500

Thanks Trell,

Great review from Ned, cheers

I've made an order for my PMW500 here in Sydney and should have this in the New Year.

Cheers

Yes Ned's review was nice. The one think I liked is he understands that 2/3' broadcast cameras are long from dead. Deep depth of field and great erg make this a wonderful camera. I now have just over a week with mine and love it. The CCD is excellent and producing the same picture I was use to with my F800. Menu is easy, camera is light, and ergonomics are what you would expect from a industry standard.

My detailed review will be in Jan after it has been used on a few jobs.

Simon we made the right move.

Hi Paul,
Excellent news mate. I'm looking forward to my 500 coming in, although this may take a few more weeks.

look forward to your review.

Cheers

Hi Simon,

Today I was tweaking two scene files I am working on. Both are based on my F800 files and seem to be close.

We were just hit with a good Nor'Easter packing a foot of snow with puffs to 68 kts, so getting good footage was tough today. I will be out this week to shoot and learn more about the camera and tweak the setting further. Happy to share with you once I feel it is up to sharing.

I did buy on Doug's recommendation the CAC-12 mic holder and it is the way to go. Found one used for $75.

Happy Boxing day a little late. I guess the boys are off to Hobart and having a bit of a blow on the way.

More soon.