Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Sony Announces PXW-X70 XDCAM Professional Compact Camcorder at DV Info Net

Turns out it will have 4K... as a paid upgrade in 2015.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Finally, a nice B-camera camcorder with decent codec and large sensor. Love the SDI out and WiFi control of iris and recording. 1" sensor and nice set of CODECS including XDCAM. Hope the DR is good.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Nice camera indeed.

It seems to be able to record all frame rates as well; 24, 25, 30, 50 and 60 instead of those PAL/NTSC framerate fees Canon charge for the XF-series.

Too bad Sony didn't went with the same three ring design Canon uses on their new XF200. On the other side the X70 offers a 4k future - although for a fee.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The interesting thing will be which frame rates are available in 4K. The AX100 is unable to squeeze 50/60 fps at 4k - at the moment. OTOH, if the X70 can do 50/60 fps at 4k post-upgrade, maybe the AX100 will get an equivalent upgrade at around the same time?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Unless I missed something, it's not clear whether the 4K upgrade will be 10-bit 4:2:2 XAVC, or only 8-bit 4:2:0 XAVC-S.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Official Sony UK press release about the PXW-X70 on the link below - it's a bit easier to read than web translated stuff too!

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/press/pr-s...p=scl-cc-10324

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes the information about the future firmware upgrade is a bit austere.

The Sony press release page states 20Mpixel sensor while their Features page say 14.2MP.
3 levels of mechanical ND-filters is great though.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Some sample footage:

PXW-X70 Teaser Video. | XDCAM-USER.COM[/quote]

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I don't see that happening for the ax100 if they where able to enable 50p for 4K, it's a way for Sony to only give the higher end models extra features for a much higher price.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Honestly, I have seen better looking downsampled ax100 footage.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Thanks to dSLR and mirrorless cameras, this smaller form factor is more client -acceptable when they're paying profession fees these days. Not the case for me several moons ago. The AX100 didn't tick all the right buttons for me and I wanted to make a 4k upgrade when I had all the supporting gears such as storage and 4K monitors, capture cards, etc. I like the 4k upgrade fee when you're ready... Hope it's priced right shipped. Please Sony, we'll love you to all ends.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Based off the price of 280,000 Yen that was posted on some Japanese sites, we should get it for under $3K.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Unclear what the 4K upgrade will cost. It would be nice if the 4K upgrade had a 4,096 x 2,160 option in addition to UltraHD, 10- or 12-bit 4:2:2 XAVC, and 12-bit compressed raw (e.g., CineForm RAW) over the 3G-SDI port.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

It is highly unlikely we will see 4K60p from this camera since it shares the same encoders as the AX100. The ASICs could be hard-coded to be limited in 4K to 30p. Try to encode 60p and the thing would overheat. Remember the TM700's active fan?

I'd also expect the same amount of skew as the AX100, which isn't really desirable for sports stuff.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Second SD slot, that's handy, but why the delay on 4K capability.... hmm, are they trying to squeeze out 50/60p perhaps? Hopefully they are taking into account the few criticisms of the AX100 and pushing for better performance...

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I am sure its positioned to replace both the NX30U and the PMW100 which have a price spread of around $2000 to $2899. Since it is based on the AX100/CX900 batteries etc I would think about $2500 may be the price point as it does not have MPEG XDCAM which could be left to the PMW100 until people prefer XAVC anyway. That would make it similar to the price differences for the PXW-X180/160 compared to the NX5U and PMW150/160. The PMW160 at B&H is $6299 but the PXW-X180 is $4999 !!

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Oh nice, didn't read about that. Seeing as this looks like a strong competitor to the XF205 ($4,000) not only in form-factor, but many "industry first" professional features... if street price is under $3K, these should be received well...even without 3 manual rings and short-ish zoom.

Besides the obvious run-n-gun ENG, docu, guerrilla-style filming... these types of small form factor cameras with pro level featuresets are great for the fast growing 2-4 multi-cam live streaming event producers. Remove the handles and it's a good chance you can fit 4 of them in a carry on bag. I really like my Sony HXR-NX3, but it takes up more gear space room than my three Panasonic TM-900 cameras. With that said, it's imperative for these to be "go-to" cams for vision mixer/live streaming, SDI needs to support 1080/30p like the Canon XF200/205. 720/30p would be great also. Ok, while I have Sony Insider ears... no "old tech" WIFi G/N... Wave 2 802.11ac please. 3x3 MIMO if you really want to blow us away. :-) Option to record proxy .mp4 to 2nd card slot simultaneously and assignable button to transfer last proxy file to WLAN/FTP... selectable AUTO Transfer with a queue up to 6 clips would be nice and "1-UP" the Canon XF200/205 similar feature.

Very good start with the NX3, and upcoming 180/160...let's keep the momentum going. Conventional video cameras are not dead!

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I was set on getting an XF205, now I'm not so sure. The PXW-X70 is appealing.

Although...
I wrote the AX100 off because the manual focus wasn't useful for me.
For example, when fully wide, a half turn of the ring is enough to focus from near to far. But when zoomed in, it takes several turns to do the same. Manual focus is useless when you have to remove your hand over and over to rotate the focus ring, all while shaking the camera.

I hope Sony changes that characteristic with the PXW-X70.
I put the XF205 through its paces at NAB, the ergonomics were perfect.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I never use manual focus ring on my small Sony's but use spot touch focus in manual which is fast. I accept that the LCD needs to be open for this though. Just wish I had touch spot focus on my NX5U. They have left this feature off the new PXW-X160/180 too.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The Red Shark review is revealing. This is looking to me like just another consumer feature checklist driven design and large DOF camera. One thing Panny did right on it's TM series in this form factor was to allow the lens ring to do iris. If you think about it, on this Sony design you have the servo for zoom and spot focus or AF for focus leaving the large ring with nothing to do while you are forced to use the piddly little side wheel for possibly the most frequent operation: riding the iris.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Why?!?! Why didn't they use the lens from the Sony RX10? this is so close to being an excellent little camera.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Usability is really important, perhaps more so in smaller cameras, which are more likely to show a wobble when you move your hand between controls. It's one of the reasons I've stuck with an XH-A1 so long, even though the XF100, and now the XF200 and X70 are my idea of the perfect size. (I cut my teeth on an XM1, which is still my bench-mark in many ways.) In my case, the crucial missing feature is the zoom-speed selector right beside the rocker switch.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Has anybody nailed the differences between X70 and A100?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

There's a lot of differences, mainly in the ergonomics. The X70 has a completely re-designed hand grip. There is a big fat focus-mag button that sits right under your index finger. A larger zoom rocker and a one-push iris control button just ahead of the zoom rocker. On the rear of the hand grip there is a small joystick that sits under your thumb and controls the menus. The hand grip is much beefier and this makes the camera much easier to hold single handed.

The LCD panel is higher resolution than the AX100 LCD.

Other difference - XAVC 10bit 422 long GOP codec. AVCHD and SD DV.
Future live streaming capability via UStream (1st half 2015).
Full size HDMI and HDSDI
The majority of the buttons are assignable.
6 Picture Profiles, with adjustments of gamma, matrix, detail and aperture.
Menu structure is similar to FS700.
S&Q motion from 1 to 60fps, so you can speed stuff up and slow it down.
Dual card slots that can be controlled independently. You can have dual record with one slot triggered from the handle rec control and the other from the body rec control. Or relay record where as one card fills the camera will switch to the other slot.
Histogram.

The codec is stunning. the 10bit 50Mbps 422 long GoP is squeeky clean, so you can really push the footage in post if you want. Probably just as well as like the AX100 the highlight handling is not the best in the world. After the shoot I discovered that adding in some black gamma in the picture profiles really helps as you can then expose a little lower. Overall you can afford to be slightly under exposed and then bring the footage up in post.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Any word on which codec 4K will be using? I hope not XAVC-S, but the 10-bit pro XAVC long-GoP codec Sony announced nearly a year ago but gave no specifics on. The data rate has got to be lower than the PXW-Z100's 600-Mbps intraframe data rate (at 60p), but more than the 60 Mbps of the AX100. I saw one estimate of 150 Mbps. And I hope full 4K is supported.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

150Mbps at 60p is what my FDR-AX1 shoots at with XAVC-S 420 8bit so I would expect 10bit 422 to be a little more. This looks to be a lovely replacement for my NX30U.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

First review of the PXW-X70 - Alister Chapman's take on it.

The Sony PXW-X70. Sometimes good things come in small packages! | XDCAM-USER.COM

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I really don't think your going to get anything above 100Mb/s. Do remember the media is only SDXC, it's not SxS and it's nowhere near as fast as SxS. To date Sony have not allowed any camera to record more than about 60Mb/s to SDXC. They might bump it up a bit to 100Mb/s, but I would be very surprised if they go above that. But, I've been wrong before.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

If it's the same sensor as in the RX10, then it scans at 4Kp60. It might be interesting if the the bottleneck were the SD cards and Sony planned to enable 4Kp60 via the HDMI 2.0 port. But the Bionz X may indeed be limited to 4Kp30. (Interestingly, the Bionz X can process raw at 14 bits.)

That's too bad. UHS-II speed class 3 SDXC/SDHC cards have a minimum write speed of 30 MBps (240 Mbps). Maybe the higher rates will be available via the 3G-SDI or HDMI 2.0 port.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

@Aiister:
Could you confirm that it is the same optics as AX100? Everybody is writing about the 12 x zoom, but nothing about actual zoom range in mm or the real aperture of the optics. Is it a constanf F2.8 or F2.8-4.0 like AX100?

Thanks
JOSS

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it's worth repeating again that in principle **FOR A LONG_GOP CODEC** doubling the frame rate does *NOT* mean doubling the bit rate (all else equal).

Halve the time difference between successive frames and expect less difference between them - which any coder can exploit. Typically, the TIME between I-frames may remain the same (typically 0.5sec), so the no of frames between I-frames will be 30 for 60p, 15 for 30p. Same total number of I-frames.

And since the I-frames tend to be much larger than difference frames, that's why 60p need not be a much higher data rate than 30p.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

On my FDR-AX1 30P, 3840x2160 has option for 60Mbps or 100Mbps and 60P is fixed at 150Mbps., 3840x2160 . 1920x1080 XAVC-S is 50Mbps. I think that since the 1920x1080 422 10bit is quoted at 50Mbps I would expect the data rates to be similar to the AX1? Maybe just like the AX100 30P 60Mbps.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Acc to the spec sheet it has the same lens which is F2.8-F4.5

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

So allowing for the normal 200% overhead needed for reliable video that's a real world limit of about 120Mb/s unless you start specifying which cards can and can't be used. You only have to look at the issues GH4 users are having when they go above 100Mb/s to see that there is a big difference between what a card may claim to be able to do and how it behaves in the real world.

You need more than 3G SDi for uncompressed 4K. The FS700 manages to squeeze 4K over it's single SDI by using compressed raw. You can pass 4K 60p over HDMI 2.0.

The lens appears to be the same lens as the AX100. It's f2.8 to f4, 9.3 to 111mm.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Eventhough the specs say it's a f2.8 to 4.5 I just checked on my ax100 and acc to the info on screen it stays at f4.0 when fully zoomed in.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Even if going from 30p to 60p doesn't increase the data rate much, going from 8- to 10-bit and 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 will increase it. The AX100's 4Kp30 data rate is 60 Mbps; anything more is likely to push it higher. Or if we extrapolate from the X70's 50-Mbps for HD, 4K is likely to increase it. If the 4K upgrade isn't XAVC-S but XAVC with a data rate closer to (or greater than) 100 Mbps, then it might outstrip an SD card's ability to record it reliably -- an issue Alister mentions above -- and require an external recorder.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Maybe the 4K upgrade is not just software but hardware upgrade to XQD card slots etc !!! Justifying the cost.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes, of course. I had a brain spasm.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Still looking for low light performance on this. Stuff done with daylight seems just like all the rest done with daylight. The stuff is fine. But want to see low light performance.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

anyone know how this compares to an ex1 or ex1r? that was always my "when i can afford it" cam (used obviously).