Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Edius Pro 7 will play/edit these files ( downloaded from this thread ) just fine too. Identifies files as H.264/AVC ( Long GOP ) 50P, PCM audio 48000hz 24bit, with time code.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

That's interesting Gabor. We just tried with the latest Prem Pro CC update on Mac. Only updated in the last 48 hours. PP will see the XAVC-L 422 MXF files but won't play them. Hmm! More investigation required I think.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes we were aware that Edius was ahead of`the curve. Strange goings on I think.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

IMHO. - They (Edius - Grass Valley(Canopus) have been "ahead of the curve" for a number of years - just don't have the "image" of PremierPro or FCP. Many professionals dismiss the software without looking into its capabilities.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Edius seems to have its own modular codecs. They're an underdog, which means their marketing department isn't quite as "in bed" with their engineers as Adobe's is with theirs. As much as I like Premiere, I have to say I'm pretty sick of Adobe holding minor codec revisions for ransom. Yeah, yeah... grumble, grumble.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes Edius has their intermediated codec HQ and HQX but the issue of the X70 files is a decode issue not a source codec issue. I use HQX to go between Edius and Vegas(or Premiere ) . I have CS6 Production Suite,Vegas 12 and Edius 7. I do not use Premiere just Photoshop and AE, main editor is Edius with Vegas12/Sound Forge for audio editing.Edius has the best multicam editor in my opinion and is very fast with native files.

Ron Evans

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

But not for Macs!

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

On a Mac the free version of Catalyst Browse will play the files and convert them to ProRes. The only real glitch is that it will only transcode them one file at a time.

Once the files are imported into Catalyst, select one of them, choose Transcode to... from the File popup at lower right, set Format to ProRes, set Preset to the flavor of ProRes you want.

Sony is reportedly working on a plugin for direct import into FCPX.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

On another forum, Ian Cook from Sony said they certainly are working on direct import of XAVC-L into FCPX. No timeline stated though.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Can someone repost the test footage from the X70? The download link isn't working anymore.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

+1. That would be really helpful.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I have them here but it will take a couple of hours to upload them as it's nearly 1.2GB of files. They are being uploaded as I write. Once I have them uploaded I will post a link to them.

There are about fifteen files in total and Gabor Heeres the original poster shot these in XAVC-L 50-mbit 422 10-bit MXF at 50p. If your NLE software won't see them you can convert them with Sony's new Catalyst Browse to XAVC-! files at 230-mbits. A single file at a time only though! They become a lot larger, 4.5 to 5 times larger but until Sony releases the plugin for this new XAVC-L MXF wrapped codec what else can you do.

If you have Edius 7 it will take the original X70 files with no issues. Or you could download MainConcepts 'TotalCode' conversion software [trial version available] as TotalCode sees these files without any difficulties. MainConcept are the people writing the bulk of Sony's NLE plugins so that comes as hardly any surprise.

Professional Video Encoding Software | TotalCode Studio Professional Encoding: MainConcept

From TotalCode you can do a batch conversion from the 'Watch folder' to XAVC-Intra the 220+mbit I frame codec. Just make sure you select the 1920 x 1080 'XAVC-Intra CBG' preset BEFORE you select the watch folder, which is the folder where you should have the downloaded files. Most NLEs will handle the exported XAVC-I files.

Over the weekend I will have an X70 here on loan to run some tests. I will endeavour to upload some original clips from the camera on Mon or Tues depending on work commitments.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Fantastic!
A few requests for your testing based on things I haven't seen much of in samples to date...

--a quick test of various Gain levels
--general handheld shots where there is some movement of subject and/or camera. I'm not talking extreme stuff, just something less static than most of the samples so far. This would test stabilization, rolling shutter, the codec, autofocus, etc.

Thanks!

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yes David I will be checking out most of those aspects in manual as well as auto as they are the sort of things that interest me as well.

Gabor's originall X70 XAVC-L files are up if anyone wants to check them out. The download link is:

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/febb4i

Be back early next week hopefully with footage!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Thanks for reposting these files Chris!

I can confirm that they work flawlessly on my MacPro running 10.9.5 and the latest version of Premiere Pro CC - the 2014.1 release.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

it's like when you don't sleep (ever) when you have your first child : you are tired, red eyes but then he/she smiles once! and you forget everything. I did a gig on a club (my first with the X70) , then 115 clips to pass via catalyst (3 hrs transcoding.. a royal pain!) but then I saw the very first clip on vegas and I forgot everything. I was using a shoulder mount and active stabilization (you lose a bit on the wide end) but I was amazed how stable the footage came out (considering that I was in the middle of the dancing, and dancing myself while shooting. basically a pitch dark scene @30db and "club lighting" : I felt like I had an Alexa instead of a little handycam! Philip Johnston said about this "wee" camera : "Sony have delivered a true jaw dropping picture out of a camcorder that most seasoned professionals would sneer at…till they saw the pictures !". And I agree completely.

anyway until the friends @Sony's will fix this nonsense of unreadable XAVC's if you use catalyst browse you can start the first transcoding and then while working select all the others (one by one) in some sort of queue and go get a coffee (or lunch) and let the queue finish.

on a side note hdmi out and sdi dont' work at the same time (annoying but ehy... look at the size of that little monster! LOL

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I have uploaded a few files from my first familiarization run with this camera. There is a combination of shots looking at the different PPs plus various shots with zooms, auto and manual iris functions, rolling shutter quick pans etc. All pretty basic really. These clips were from day one whist I was trying to come up with a PP setting I thought would work to my liking. Mind you the ‘look’ of a camera is a personal thing so some of you might totally disagree with what I have ended up with.
Unfortunately I didn’t have time to do any low light shots or hand held stuff because I was mainly concentrating on settings and adjustment while hooked up to scopes. A lot easier to do that off sticks.

For people on Windows who can't play these X70 the files I suggest downloading the non-installer portable Media Player Classic - Home Cinema 64-bit version v1.7.7 which will play the X70 XAVC files just fine. It must be version 1.7.7.

Download Media Player Classic Home Cinema (64-bit portable) v1.7.7 (open source) - AfterDawn: Software downloads

Bearing in mind that what I was aiming for was a ready rolled 'look' that requires very little or no grading. A quick shoot, edit and deliver set up in other words. To try and get that look I ended up modifying PP4 for my uses. The changes made were to keep the video in the 16-235 delivery range and to try and achieve a natural looking roll off to the highlights and minimise white clipping whilst at the same time being careful to not crush the black levels too much.

All my initial settings were done on the grey scale and color chip charts using a WFM and Vector. Final tweaks were done outside in the real world while still monitoring everything on the scopes. It’s all still a work in progress. At this point I think I can probably squeeze a little more out of the camera to suit what I’m after. I would probably end up with two or three PPs with variations to cover different scenarios. After two days with the camera I was impressed enough with it that I have just ordered one. I can definitely see some uses for it here.

Likes - Most things.

Dislikes - Battery release not well placed. You cannot reach the release easily when using certain tripod plates. No on-off switch! If you close the flip screen while the viewfinder is in the retracted position the camera shuts down. I did that a couple of times! If the viewfinder is in the extended position you can then shut the flip screen without the camera shutting down. Problem with this though is if you are on sticks and get close to the viewfinder with your arm or body the viewfinder sensor switches off the flip screen. For the life of me I can’t find anything in the menus or manual where this viewfinder auto switch sensor can be overridden. Another weird Sony idea that I hope gets an override solution in an upcoming firmware update.

No standalone charger supplied. HATE having to charge a battery via a camera.

Regarding the download, beware it will be pretty big, about 2.4 GB. I will post the link once it’s all uploaded which will be some hours later today.

In the meantime if anyone doesn’t want a big download but wants to look at some different shots I did the following day I have stuck them together as a smaller MP4. It was all shot XAVC-L 50-mbit 4:2:2 10-bit at 50p with 100th shutter. I purposely chose a high contrast location where I knew I would have extreme whites in full blazing sun along with deep shadows plus some people around for some skin tone colors and exposures. What better place than a marina. Excuse some of the shaky shots at the long end as it was very windy. The clip can be downloaded here.

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/t9yiwl

Finally many thanks to the good guys, especially Scott at Lemac in Sydney for making the unit available for test. Thanks Scotty.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Christopher, I love the "ready rolled" concept very much. I shoot news and LIVE shots with my X70, and most people want that DSLR RAW flat look for grading. I have a separate post in the XAVC forum where I am doing extensive vectorwavescoping of my X70, to get the most accurate colors and bestest video right out of the camera.

I found that the STILL color mode is better at adjusting to perfection than the ITU709 version, as you only get two color revisions on the vectorscope using the menu. I took my camera into a professional facility (GRC Electronics, El Cajon) to see if they could do any better than my DSC chart scoping, and after they put the camera on their backlit 3200k calibrated box, it was found it was as good as it could get with the adjustments available. We did find a few things I need to take care of. First, when using preset or manual kelvin WB, the camera had a definite (slight egg shape on the vectorscope) green shift on black balance. Apparently, the push to white performs a black balance adjustment that is not achievable in the other white settings. Good to know. Also, the calibrated 3200k box produced a push to white of 3300k on the Sony. The indoor preset is close enough as to be practically unnoticeable as different in color production.

I am finalizing the DSC chart settings for STILL and ITU709, and the only adjustments that cannot be done on the scope are the COLOR DEPTH ones. The only way to adjust the color depth settings for each color is to point the camera at an object with a shade you want to play with, and adjust up and down until that color appears natural in the EVF/LCD. A cool thing about the depth settings is that you can darken a blue sky, or make green grass pop, independent of other colors or total colorimetry.

Paul

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

For those who want to look directly at camera files here is the link to a few XAVC 50-mbit 50p files from my first encounter with the X70. Beware it is a 2.4GB download

www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/0w5zat

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I don't have my X70 in hand yet, but the manual seems to indicate there is a POWER button, although it does not show where that is. Also, it would be good to point out that the camera will not shut down while it is recording, regardless of the position of the LCD or viewfinder, at least that is what the manual says on page 24:

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The on/off button is under the flip screen, same as the 100/900. You can If needed flip the panel facing outward and the camera will stay on, although that leaves the shiny side susceptible to damage.

One thing I found very irritating about my X70, is that if you have the LCD open, and the EVF pulled out, the picture will swap back and forth every couple of seconds between the two. In other words, you CANNOT use the EVF with LCD open, or use the LCD with the EVF pulled out. At least that has been my experience with it operating at night.

Paul

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Strictly speaking you are right.

There is an ON / STANDBY button in behind the flip screen that enables you to turn the camera on from stone cold dead. It still doesn't overcome the problem that if the viewfinder is in the retracted OFF position and you close the flip screen the camera will power down to standby. If the viewfinder is extended it is then in the ON position. The problem is that the viewfinder auto switching sensor is now alive with the viewfinder on. Wave your hand or anything close to the viewfinder or the back of the camera for that matter and the flip screen turns off until whatever activated the eyepiece sensor has been removed, i.e. your body or arm. Remove whatever activated the sensor and then the flip screen comes alive and will stay alive until such time as something comes close to the viewfinder or back of the camera again. Should you want to keep the camera on and shut the flip screen you must turn the viewfinder ON. If the viewfinder is retracted in the OFF position and you shut the flip screen the camera powers down to standby.

I just found it a bit annoying to have to remember to pull out the viewfinder every time I wanted to shut the screen but not turn power down the camera when I moved the sticks to a new location. It's just a habit of mine to close screens when picking up camera and sticks in one go. Less likelihood of damaging the screen. As Paul points out it is very annoying to have the screen keep turning on and off if you move around behind the camera with the viewfinder switched on. As yet I have discovered no way of bypassing the viewfinder auto sensor in the menu. There again it could be me totally missing a menu setting but I don't think so,

This is probably my major complaint operationally, apart from everything being so small, even for my average sized hands. Like the ND switch being very easy to accidentally overshoot with when selecting an ND because it has very firm detent positions and a very short throw.

Notwithstanding it's a great little camera and punches / shoots well above its weight. For that price / performance / feature ratio there is little to compare. I look forward to getting one because I had forgotten what joy is was to move around various locations with such a small lightweight kit.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

You say standby by but is it really standby? Once the screen is shut I think the power is off. It just seems to power up very quickly, unlike my old HMC150 which had a standby mode to avoid that problem but then drained the battery steadily until it was turned off properly

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Mike I can't test that out as the camera has gone back to the dealer but from memory if you pushed the button in it shut down completely. If you just shut the screen it went into standby hence the quick start on opening the screen. First time up I had to turn the camera on with that button which in the manual is called ON / STANDBY.

Will find out for sure when mine arrives I guess!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Just checking- the SDI output on the X70 is a female connector, so you would need a regular size male SDI cable to connect to that?

I am curious because when using, say the Atomos Samurai and the X70, I think you would want a male SDI to male mini-SDI to make the connection between the two devices, but the cables that Atomos sells for this purpose are only male on the mini end of the connector- Atomos 2 x 9" SDI Cables for Samurai Recorder ATOMCAB001

So using that would require another male-male SDI cable for the camera to connect, right?

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Chris,
The handbook says

"To turn off the power
Close the LCD screen, if the viewfinder is extended return it to it's original position
You can also turn off the power by pressing the POWER button""

I don't use the power button often and have not seen any battery drain overnight when simply shutting down the LCD or viwefinder so my guess is that it simply powers up quickly, which is good
Cheers
Mike

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I've been playing a bit with the downloadable files - a bit frustrating. Catalyst Browse is very sluggish, and some of the clips won't play back or convert. I'm almost ready to get the camera, but as a FCPX user I'll have to shoot AVCHD until there is a plugin I'm afraid.

One thing I did notice that I'd not seen mentioned - Catalyst Browse reports the XAVC clips as 24 bit audio, not 16. That's a nice extra feature I wasn't expecting.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Yeah David, that is my plan, hopefully it won't be to long. I'm on Vegas though and my X70 should be here today.....can't wait!

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Compatibility for Vegas and other NLEs rumoured to be December. With Vegas I would imagine it will be a new build version of 13.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

One thing I've noticed, playing with the files Chris posted, is how much you can push colour grading. I sometimes like to desaturate, stretch and crush regions of the tonal curve to get various "film noir" looks etc (comes from having a stills background with 14-bit raw to mess with). This is barely possible with 8-bit AVC of course, before banding artifacts appear. I was mildly skeptical of the value of 10-bit XAVC-L in-camera with a bandwidth of only 50Mb/s. Like a weak Martini in a big glass perhaps. But I've been torturing this footage all morning and it holds-up really well. I'm actually very excited about this aspect of the X70. Having considered getting an external recorder there's now much less urgency.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

The SDI is standard female jack. Menu options allow for 1080, 720, or 480i output regardless of record resolution. DV record only allows 480i SDI output though. The camera also puts out record triggers on SDI and HDMI for Atomos per the manual.

Paul

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I'm about to order the X70 and get a couple of suitable memory cards at the same time. I'm slightly confused by the variety of UHS-1 SDXC (is speed class 3 necessary?) card options for this video camera, regarding both claimed speed and economics. Obviously I don't want overkill and may never do the 4K upgrade when available. May we do a quick poll as to what others are using and found to work well. Thanks.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I bought a pair of PNY Elite Performance 64GB SDXC cards. Real 90MB/s read and 60MB/s write speeds, very pleased with them for the $30-35 price they command. They are UHS-1. 143 minutes of record time per card at 50Mbps.

Paul

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I have the same cards. Work well.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Transcend 90/60 UHS-3 work fine too, about £25 from Ebay

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Thanks for the replies so far, guys. I will probably go with the Transcend or PNY, both of which seem to be UHS-1 SD class 3 with more than enough bandwidth (but see my last paragraph). In fact the PNY has an Elite Performance 256 GB card for $106 on B&H which is just nuts.

Comment: I must say, the naming scheme of these things is bloody arcane, i.e., UHS-1 (SD class 1) vs. UHS-1 (SD class 3), and the manufacturers don't go out of their way to clarify the issue. You need a magnifying glass to see the little U with a 1 or 3 in it!

This is really just a technical question for my own limited understanding. As best I get it, the video camera requires 50 Mbps - which is about 6 MBps. So even SDXC-UHS-1 (class 1) cards, which appear to have a max. write speed of 45 MBps should in theory do the the job fine? Or is there something about peak vs. average write speed I should know.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

Catalyst Prepare arrived today, early indications are that it's great but no time to really test. I was told I would get a discount because I bought 'Content Browser' but no sign of that yet

Sony Catalyst Prepare out now
 

I've been using this for a few days now and like it. It accepts old Sony HVR, Panasonic MTS, MOV and of course the new X70 codec. Very easy and fast to use and great for making a rough cut storyboard. I've not tried colour grading yet, but it looks useful.
One oddity so far- I can't seem to delete 'libraries', I set one up as a test and cannot get rid of it!. Not serious but odd. Maybe more oddities to follow.
It's available on a 14 day trial here: Catalyst Prepare: Overview.

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

question for those who own the camera: how much time has to pass before you start to become irked by 4k remaining as vaporware?

Not to stir the pot, just curious since one main reason i'm staying away for the time being is that they didn't give any idea of when that update will happen, no day, no month, not even a quarter mentioned, just the "future"...

Re: Sony PXW-X70 announced: Pro XDCAM version of AX100
 

I shoot broadcast news with mine, and my station being an ABC affiliate is a 720p station. Shooting at night, you would think the "Clear Image Zoom" feature with 20 million pixels would provide a clean clear image at 1280x720 resolution, I mean it still has enough overpixelization right? Wrong. Once you leave the happy world of every recorded pixel being interpolated from like 20, the gain becomes very obvious. I would not want to see this camera in 4k at night, especially once you start zooming in on things.

It is very nice though to be able to see my X70 footage actually AIR at 60 frames per second.....the only good thing I can say about 720.

Paul