Interview Lighting without too much $$$ Restriction (relatively)
 

I am in pre on my first big (feature-length) project, a documentary on the social, economic and educational realities of Richmond California (a gross oversimplification of the focus, but hey). The over-whelming majority will obviously be one-person interview, so I want to get the set-up right. We are looking to give this as high production value as we can with our budget, and are purchasing either a JVC HD110U or a Cannon XLH1, and an M2 or Brevis adapter. We are looking for a filmic, fairly high-contrast, artistic look. It's not the exact look we're going for or anything (and our look will probably be cooler), but to give you some idea I do really like the look of Phil Bloom's Homeless Portraits piece http://www.cinevate.com/images/homeless2.mov.

I have a teacher who can get me lighting equipment I couldn't possibly afford myself. Most of the threads concerning this topic are obviously started by people highly restricted by budgets, so the suggestions are too. I am very technically ignorant about lighting, but know that it is very key to the final look of a film.

I am basically asking what would be a good setup (within reason) for an artistic HD production with a 35 mm adapter. I can't obviously ask for a kit in the 10,000$ range, but I am fortunately perhaps less restricted than most in this department (lighting). I obviously don't know exactly what I have access to, so if you could just suggest a range of products I can get an idea of what to ask for. I am basically just looking to get a concept of the type of setup that would be appropriate. If it comes down to it, we can also rent a bit.

Long-winded again, but I wanted to cover everything -- sorry.

Thanks a bunch for your help.

Brian

ACDelco (These have stronger clamps that don't fall apart from use) clamp lights $15ish on lighting stands from ebay $35ish with a photobalanced bulb (don't know the price). I use old mike stands instead of lightstands. 2 or 3 lights can fit per stand (I'm also using CFL screw in flourescents...but reconsidering based on RF noise in my audio).

These fixtures also clamp to anything you throw them on...and if you have a balanced (XLR) microphone, the flourescents will let you hand hold them if necessary.

China balls are cheap and avaliable at pier1 and world market.

Coleman makes a halogen worklight 500w or 1000w or something...they telescope to 7' tall :)

Thanks for the great info Cole. I'll be sure to look into these.

I have to admit though that I'm lost as to what "China Balls" are, especially if you get them from Cost Plus. Could you explain? :)

And, I need to know what combination of these elements you would suggest and in what arrangement.

Everyone: I am looking for help in arrangement of the set-up and for combinations of lighting elements, as well as suggestions of individual items.

Thanks a lot Cole :)

These:
http://www.worldmarket.com/Maru-Roun...0000/index.pro

Which look like this only white:
http://www.worldmarket.com/Maru-Roun...0000/index.pro

Cole, are these cheap alternatives to softboxes? For filling in faces? Could you give me some idea of how i might use them? Thanks for the clarification.

cheap, big, soft lights that can be hung from poles or what ever with a bit of gaffer's (or black duct) tape. Any light that is relatively large compared to the subject gives a soft light.

Work light blasted at a white bedsheet 10 feet away will give a really nice full body soft light on the other side of the sheet. If you move the subject away from the light the shadows get harder as the light becomes relatively smaller compared to the subject.

Your primary requirement for technique will likely be addressed here: http://www.efplighting.com/

As for gear, check out Chimera and see where the storage bunker at your school has similar. You mentioned a teacher who has the gear, but you did not indicate if you are enrolled in a media course or if you have any training in lighting for dv or film ... if you are then perhaps the above web site is too elementary for you...

Just try to avoid home fix-it store supplied lighting and a pile of cobbled bedsheets etc for diffusion. It might get the basic job done but these silly putty and baler twine solutions can be unsafe and just don't look pro. Unless you have a 100 dollar budget for lighting ... just be sure to keep 10 bucks set aside for a fire extinguisher.... to Cole's credit I do like the Chinese lantern technique: A very practical practical.

the example clip you like - to me it looks like natural light ( that's the way the scene was) - they moved persons to where the light was best ...

depending where you shoot in Richmond you may not want to have too much equipment ... if in the triangle kill zone - travel very light - that includes if you are in somebody's house interviewing ... from my experience shooting over there - i would rent a 2 light kino flo (with daylight and 3200k tubes - either 2ft or 4ft ) and a collaspable 36 or 48" reflector ( silver/white) ... put person in best available light at the location - use the praticals in room for accent .....

He asked for a budget solution...not baling twine and cobbled kits. If you give everyone starting out a huge loan for lighting kits, I'll gladly start recommending expensive chimeras and totas, inkies, blinkies, pinkies and clydes. These are not viable solutions for folks trying to start out their learning process or doing their first couple of shoots.

I'd like to learn to drive too, but can't afford a lexus, should I avoid driving?

I've been watching quite a bit of BTS from movies and have learned one thing from them...While the big expensive lights will get what you want...the end result is that the DP throws a piece of folded up printer paper in the book to add fill to the face, they cobbble together something at their local home depot to solve a lighting dilemma that can't be addressed by their Professional lighting kits with all the riggings in their grip truck...and the industry has renamed clothespins to not be an embarassment when invoicing clients or getting budgets ratified.

Bedsheets work just fine, work lights work just fine, china balls from cost plus are used on lots of big hollywood productions.

I would definately recommend that you be careful of things catching on fire on any set where light is used...that includes professional lighting kits. Common sense plays an important role on set...you let your home fixtures cool down before changing the bulbs in them...these kits make heat too...it's physics.

Sorry to be defensive...but I've gotten so many "Spend more money" solutions. Money is not as necessary as you seem to think. You can pick up black spray paint used on the inside of gas grills (very heat resistant) to spray paint your lighting rigs if you're worried about the appearances on set. There are instructions around for fashioning barndoors for worklights and clamplight reflectors as well. When you walk through home depot (or whatever local variant you have access to), look at every thing you see as a possible tool on your film set. Make what you can't afford, borrow what you can't figure out...then build it.

Time=Money

Spend one not the other on set. Your set your choice, but that doesn't make my choice wrong.

I could not have said it better myself.

Sorry for the ego-crushing language. But there's no need to be defensive. I started out the same way. I think if we get a response from the O.P., there's a bit more (money) to the story.

Also, keep your eyes open for great deals when your local A-V shop is clearing out rental gear. This can be easy on the budget also.

Didn't mean to be defensive, just wanted to get my point across. Sometimes we make do with what we have, other times, what we want is no better than what we can get cheaply.

Lots of professional chefs have benz-o-matic propane torches in their kitchens...simply due to the fact that although a professional brulee torch looks better, it's 2-3 times the price for the same tool. In professional kitchens, I've used chennel locks to remove pans from hot ovens...because they work and are cheap, oil can spouts to get into cans of sauce and juice...the list goes on.

All of the bigger pieces of lighting started with a regular light that someone ran to a hardware store and strapped something on the fixture to do a specific task...then some manufacturer takes the effort out of making it and charges you for that relief.

In the end, light is light...it's a bunch of photons traveling through space. From the point of generation through the air to the Capture plane on your camera is what is important. Learning to deal with light and use it the way you want to will let you work with $15 implements as if they were $150...Buying fancy equipment that looks good on set and not having a clue what to do with it will look like you're using a $15 implement. What ends up in the camera is tantamount...everything else is flexible.

"I'd like to learn to drive too, but can't afford a lexus, should I avoid driving?"

perhaps a situation just might call for you not driving !!!
i wouldn't drive a old beat up auto to drive over to Warner Brothers Studio to take the head of production out to lunch and if i couldn't rent a decent auto then YES i would avoid driving or park the junk on a street nearby the studio and take a cab from there to lunch ....

IMO if you are shooting at a PUBLIC high school all your equipment needs to be SAFE - i wouldn't call a bed sheet used to diffuse hot lights safe? i wouldn't call a 8" paper china latern with 250w bulb in it safe ...

each of us draws a line some where .. - i would use homemade depot lights at home & on many sets BUT i would not show up with them at a high school, corporate office, clients office to interview students, workers, CEO's ...

wrong equipment for a job = more time and more $$

Brian,

Getting back to your original question. May I ask what kinds of things you have done before, and what kind of lights you used for those projects?

In another direction, is there a reason you are fixed on buying vs. renting?
For any given budget, I can promise you higher production values if you rent rather than buy.

I'll reiterate as the argument seems to be getting the better of the information:

10 feet away should be safe. A large scrim in a frame from a rental place will be affected by heat in the same way at the same distance. The room will get warm...make sure you read all apropriate safety warnings on the devices you're using and wear gloves when working with them. Keep a fire extinguisher handy whether you use DIY kit or Pro kit...light is caused by a conversion from flowing energy to radiant energy...it is hot, it can heat things up to their flash point or melt them.

On a recent shoot we used a tota light and a gel got to close to it causing it to melt and smoke. From then on, we couldn't use the tota light as it would smoke and throw off rancid smelling smoke everytime we'd turn it on.

As for the lexus...walking a few blocks after parking my rusty '78 chevette to hide it from some studio execs is a perfectly viable option.

Here's an example from another thread...it looks a bit like what you're looking for:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...740#post619740

Thank you guys for your responses. I'm afraid there has been some confusion. I am interested, as well as individual pieces of gear, mostly on how to set up the lighting for an interview in this artistic high production style. I want to know arrangement and combinations of lighting elements, without too much budget restriction (since I'm borrowing from professionals, or if I have to, renting).

ie: Do I use a softbox, an open light and reflector? If so, where do I put the softbox, where do I put the reflector, and where do I put the other lights. I'm interested in the whole kit that I could use, and how I would use it.

Cole: I am not in fact looking for a budget solution (though I appreciate the tips which may be useful on my smaller projects). I understand that one can pull something together for very little money (with such suggestions as the bedsheet etc), but if you reread my original post, my situation is quite different. I have access to a few people (not extremely high level, but professionals) who will lend me equipment. We want very high production value, and do not need to cut (many) corners. Thank you for your suggestions, and sorry for the confusion.

Jimmy: Thank you. I am not in fact very educated on lighting for DV. It is not school equipment I would be using, but my teacher is one of my possible sources of equipment. That article is very useful; thank you.

Don: I realize that that clip is not lighted (much), but was providing as an (perhaps useless) example of a look we would be happy with -- I'm not saying I want it to look exactly like that.
I am very interested in your work in the area. We are focusing mainly on Richmond High, so we wont be in many houses, but point taken on traveling light. When we do go through the triangle we were going to go via cop car (too many bad stories) and try to shoot that way. I would very much like to hear your experiences. Perhaps we could correspond via email (if you're not too busy)? brianorser@gmail.com - if youre interested in sharing your experience. Thanks for the advice on the lights -- more what I was looking for. However, which Kino Flo do you have in mind?

Ralph: Again, sorry for the confusion. I never mentioned buying equipment. I am indeed renting, but for free, from friends. :) I will also rent (not for free) anything they dont have that I might need. Thanks.

Thanks everyone, sorry the thread got confused, and please try again to help me out. :)

Read everything on this site: http://www.efplighting.com/

Ya, thanks Bennis, it is indeed an amazing resource. Someone pointed it out to me. Thanks a lot. :)

The higher budget version of the lighting setup would be to grab a large white scrim in a frame and blast a largish light at it to give a huge soft light...You can see an extreme example of this in the BTS for Casanova with Heath Ledger. They used the sun in this case, but a 6x6 scrim in a frame with a 1k light pointed at it will get the nice big soft light you're looking for in that clip you originally posted...you can use existing light this way as well using the sun as source. The goal is to make the light much larger than it is in relation to the subject.

Thank you Cole. I'll look into that.

By the way, everyone, please don't place too much emphasis on Phillip Bloom's piece which I posted. It was perhaps a mistake - it is not necessarily an example of how I want to light our piece. It was more to illustrate a look that is similar to the one we're looking for. It is not even exactly what we want. Please don't let it affect your suggestions dramatically.

Read everything in this string!

:) Um, is it possible that I could change the topic of this thread? Admins? I just realized why people were confused at first - it could be read Lighting without too much $$$ (without the "restriction" bit) completely altering the meaning. If its possible someone let me know.

Thanks for all your advice.

Brian

we shot over in the triangle about 3 years ago ... we had 3 days ( 9-4pm) of interviews in persons home and a few interviews in a corner ? lot? park ? ( not sure what to call it) .. we were a crew of 4 w/men, 1 w/woman( 2 camera's, soundman, director & producer- our age range 40 -70- which i think was a plus)... we didn't drive the lexus - we drove rent a wrecks (with dents) ... the interviews went good - each house that we shot at the person of the house usually had to go outside within 5 min of our arrival and tell persons out in the street that we were "OK" ... shooting at the park had some tension as our persons had to have friends on nearby corners keeping their eye out for certain cars( not the police) ... we did see police while we had camera's out but they never stopped ....
the 1st interview we brought in 4 lights , few C stands, flags/nets - next interview only ONE light ... 2nd & 3rd day - all natural light & 4x4 foam core ....

today the triangle is much more dangerous - especially the last 4-5 months ...
a friend ask me to shot a interview of a person over there about 3 weeks ago - i said NO to anywhere near the triangle - but i would do it in point richmond - which we did in the park ( end of tunnel) ...

i'm not sure where Richmond high is located ? but i would say a high school is safer then being out in the streets ...

Very interesting. Sounds about as sketchy as I would assume. I am well aware of the deteriorating situation in the triangle and narf in general. What do you think of the idea of from the window of a patrol car?

Also, I would like to run the viability of our interview set-up past you.

We'd be kids, administration, teachers (many of whom will be friendlies as we know 1st and 2nd hand many of them), and potentially parents (this one is the most unsure).

We plan to mic them with lav and boom cardioid (for coverage), lighting is obviously still being decided, and we'll have a big HDV cam (prolly JVCHD110) with 35mm adapter and lens. Is all this too imposing? We're - to tell the truth ;) - just kids, high school seniors, which might alleviate down the intimidation factor.

We don't want this to look like a documentary - filmic and more like a narrative in style and story - so we want this to look as rich and pretty as possible.

What do you think?

And, in relation to lighting, should we just go for a key light and reflector? Or key and soft fill? Or can we get more in depth?

Thanks for your help,

Brian

Brian,

You can get very close to the portrait lighting in the sample clip you provided by putting your subject by a large window. If you do this, you would get more consistant lighting with a northern facing window and keep in mind that your light temperature will change rapidly as you approach either dawn or dusk. If you shoot around noon, this might work well for you.

With the depth of field you get with the 35mm adapter, you might be able to get away with not using a back or edge light, but I would keep an extra instrument on hand just in case. I wouldn't shoot with out a edge light with normal video though, my personal preference I guess.

If you like the look of the soft key, defintely go for a soft box with a reflector, or two soft boxes and put an extra diffussion layer on your fill. This will knock your fill down a couple of stops as well.

You should be able to get by with your basic media department lighting kit, though. I would try to shoot some tests, and try to achieve the look your going for as closely as possible. Do some location scouts as well, so you know somewhat what you'll be up against. Good luck.

Thank you Greg. I realize that that clip isn't lighted, and as I clarified earlier it's not a particularly perfect representation of the look we want - just something I like and has the feel of the interview look I want. But, point taken on the northern window, and time of day.

I will certainly be trying to keep it soft, and will try these setups. Thank you.

We are planning on spending a while getting our "look" down, as well as the setup process, once we get all our gear. A very good idea.

Thanks for the help.

Brian

I agree with the comments about the inspirational footage making use of natural light. The window n one shot looked like it might have been covered with soft difussion.

For really soft light, pass chimeras and go straight to a 3' x 5' or 4' x 6' silk in a frame around 3-5 feet from talent. The lights, maybe 2 or 3 of them, shining into the silk can be 500 watts and up, adjusted and focused at will.

The 'softness' of light is not only a function of how 'grainy' diffusion material is but also how large the area of the light source is and how close it is to the subject. The great thing about silks is that you can keep the 'source', i.e. the silk close and back up the lights themselves to control the amount of light.

The drawbacks to this method are that it involves more gear and longer setup time,than quickly whipping out a chimera, and you need flags to control spill, but if you have the time and the gear it's really worth it.

As far as gear goes, open face lights, a silk with frame, or homemade creative substitute and c-stands with knuckles and flags/foamcore. Just another approach.

Eric, thank you. Interesting, and completely new to me - silks. I'll certainly check the idea out, though your comment on the added time to set-up makes me think perhaps I won't be able to use this method for all my interviews, as they will be much more rushed.

Again, thanks for the info.

The silks & scrims would be functionally similar to the bedsheet mentioned earlier.

A really nice interview kit is 2 2'x4bank Kino Flos and 3 Dedolight DLH4 150W Fresnels. The Kinos can be lamped with either daylight, or tungsten, or a mix. The Select ballasts allow individual control of the lamps. The Dedos put out almost as much light as a 300w, because of their double lens design. I got dichroic blue filters for them so I lose only 1 stop when converting to daylight. It also saves on gels, since they discolor rather quickly.

Use 1 Kino for Key and 1 for fill. Use 1 Dedo for a hair/edge light and a second to light a piece of the background. You can also get away with using 1 Kino for Key and a refelctor for fill, if you are tight enough on the framing. Kinos are nice because they don't get quite so hot, so you can pack them up quickly and do other things while you wait for the Dedos to cool down.

This kit can go into a a car trunk. I was lucky to find a case on ebay that fit everything pretty well. Smaller Kit stands should be alright, but be sure that you have some shot bags or Matthews Boa bags to keep things from falling over. I have six breakdown C stands that I carry in two Lightware stand bags that work great.

Kino Flo,

Dedolight, click on the link to download the catalog.

If you need to be more compact a Lowel Tota light and a small Chimera are great. The speed ring is the bulkiest thing. Just be sure that you let things cool down first, or you're liable to melt your Chimera.

Oh, I almost forgot, the Matthews Roadrags kit is very helpful too. It's a folding flag and net kit. They come in 12x18 and 18x24. The kit consists of two breakdown frames and 1 each: flag, single, double and silk. This adds another level of control to your kit that is invaluable. They now have a breakdown 4'x4' Roadflags kit.

This kit can be set up and taken down rather quickly. It would be a good idea to have a Gaffer with you, that way they can handle the lighting, while you are dealing with camera. Even better if your gaffer has a best, who can help him/her. If you are in situations where there isn't much time, more hands make the work go faster, as long as they are qualified. Not sure what your budget is but if you can have a three or four person crew, that would be best: DP(Director of Photography), AC(Assistant Camera), Sound Mixer/Boom Op, Gaffer. Nice if you can set it up that way. On a lot of shoots it's me doing camera, lights and some of the audio. I make the AP(Associate Producer), or Field Producer mic up the talent.

Brian, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Phil used natural available light pretty extensively in that clip. One of his requirements for using the Brevis was that it be very light-efficient to reduce or eliminate supplementary lighting.

Mark, thank you so much. This is an excellent answer. I will take both your setup ideas into consideration. I will hopefully have a 2 or 3-man crew. Not ideal, but hopefully it will work.

A question: how directional are those Kinos? Can you control them easily? Spillover?

To be honest I had never considered the cool-down time of lights -an interesting point. Thank you.

Thank you Dennis. You are right, as far as I can tell. I mentioned a couple times in here that I realized it wasn't a lighted piece. Just an example of an artistic look with similar subject matter.

I'll be purchasing my very own Brevis in the next day or two. :) Thanks!

Brian,

You can use black wrap to kill the spill. The flag in the Roadrags kit will help keep the spill off the background. I bought an extra frame and flag for my kit. The Kinos usually come with an eggcrate that make the unit more directional, but it does cut the output a bit. But, if you're just doing interviews, then it should be fine.

Often time is a consideration. You don't always have a lot of time to do things because your subject only has a given amount, or you have to pack up and go to your next interview, etc. There is usually time presure on a shoot.

When you start shooting a lot, you have to consider a lot of seemingly minor things, weight, size of cases, cooling time of lights, relative quiet for the interview room, power, etc. You have to let the lights cool down, or you'll melt the case, or the padding, or a rug. I've had times where I've had to toss everything out of the space we were shooting in, because someone else had to use the space. But that's where the producer's job comes in- to buy extra time. They botched it on that one, though.

Most people don't realize that you'll need at least an hour just to find your spot, set up camera and lights, mic people, block out windows, kill noise. "I didn't know it was gonna be a whole big Hollywood thing. I thought you were just gonna set up a camera and shoot". Nope. That's why you have to thoroughly educate the subject before you get there and tell them what you need. And follow up.

It's not just about the lighting it's about what you need in terms of time, space and electricity, among other things. The logistics. That's what most people fail to take into account.

Mark, thanks again. I am beginning to realize this more and more. I have to reevaluate some of my plans, and make things more feasible. Thanks for the advice.

Happy to help.

In this business, OCD is an asset, because you have to plan for and consider EVERYTHING.

Ya, I'm starting to feel pretty crazy and obsessive. I dont even talk about the content of my film anymore. :)

Yeah, it's easy to drown in all the details and forget why you came in the first place. After a while you minimize all the BS and create a system that allows you to concentrate on what you are really there for, making pretty pictures and telling a story.

I guess thats why lucky pros get a DIT (Digital Imaging Tech) to take care of all the technical video stuff, and a sound guy and a lighting tech etc. I'm jealous. :) Oh, to be just DP or director...

kino's are very good because they draw very little power ...
if you are shooting in a class room you don't want to be using 1000's of watts as you might blow a circuit and then it could be hours before a janitor ( or are they call custodial engineers these days/) can turn it back on ...

IMO if they give you a room that is YOURS to do interviews for the day then you can work with 2-3 person crew and have more lights but if you will have to be moving to several different rooms to interview then having a 4-6 light set up with flags may not work unless you have more crew ...

you'll know after your 1st day of shooting what is working and not working..
perhaps you could do a practice at a local school near you to see what problems you come across ... seems to me that for "set up" interviews the 35mm adaptor would be OK but for on the run interviews/shooting around campus or if you're out in police car it would slow you down ? ...