Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Hi

Thanks Ron for the info.

I'm waiting for 4K at 60fps in a more consumer friendly format. It will happen in the next 12 months if not sooner, in the meantime I'll probably go for the GH4 and use the high bit-rate 1080P.

Regards

Phil

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

In the sets where the AX100 was involved, it's clearly resolving more detail than the others. The big question to me is whether, in the case of the GH4, was it optimally set for maximum detail or a more dreamy like look?

On the subject of color, I wouldn't even begin to compare since the gradings were all over the place.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Was waiting for this and it does look somewhat disappointing, it does improve a bit over the gh3 but the noise is still pretty obvious.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Here is a link to Andrew Reid's lowlight test of the GH4 vs. GH3 & 5D Mark III raw. Check the video on Vimeo then down load the original MOV. file and watch it using VLC player and see if there is much of a difference!

https://vimeo.com/90981412#at=0

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

He graded the footage and I don't understand why, I"d rather would see it compared straight out of the camera. one thing he mentions makes sense and that is when you downscale from 4k to 1080p the noise becomes smaller which can explain why once you apply neatvideo to it it looks very clean.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

@Noa Put, you are correct, I just noticed the grain has been cleaned up compared to the 1st time I saw it on his web site. All three cameras had noise with naturally the 5D having less, with the GH4 being better that the GH3, the original downloaded files were a lot better viewed on VLC than what was displayed on Vimeo at the time. I notice the technical information under the video, still states "No noise reduction applied" but it has definitely been cleaned up from the 1st upload.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Several questions, and I realize that we may not yet have the answers : 1) why would the GH4 record 4K video at only 100 Bps while recording 1080p video at 200 Bps ? 2) the recording formats listed in the specs are MOV, MP4 and MPEG-4 avchd. I thought MOV was a container, not a codec. What type of video is in the MOV that is being recorded at either 100 or 200 Bps ? The description also states that video recording to memory cards is always 4:2:0, so does this mean that to get 4:2:2 video you have to go out via the micro HDMI to an external recorder ?

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Hi

The 200Mbps is all Intra only on 1080P and not 4K, this is pretty easy for the processor to encode as each frame is standalone. Essentially we end up with 60 Jpeg images a second compressed to around 420KBytes in size.

The 100Mbps top rate in 4K and option for 1080P is long GOP, this means the processor needs to process 15 or 30 frames as a group, finding differences between each frame then encoding these differences. Remember this is done in real time, and with 4K there is only so much the processor can handle in terms of data in real-time at those resolutions. It probably can't generate more than 100Mbps of data in real-time. I doubt this limit in long GOP applies to 1080P, but throwing more than 100Mbps at long GOP at HD resolutions probably doesn't yield much if any improvement.

Yes MOV, MP4 and AVCHD are containers or standards, for example AVCHD describes the container and the maximum resolutions/bit-rate, with MOV and MP4 having no limits.

Internal recording is indeed 8bit 4.2.0, most likely to avoid this camera being too good which might take sales away from Panasonic's pro broadcast range, so to record 4.2.2 at 10bit would require an external recorder, in which case you need the GH4 brick added to it (not compulsory but this provides more robust connections for HDMI and SDI outputs) which is pretty costly, and I suspect helps Panasonic insure against losing money from lower sales of its pro range of video cameras.

Regards

Phil

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

I don't see much reason to get the brick unless you specifically need the quad-sdi output. Add Atomos' small Ninja Star to a GH4 and you can have 10bit 422 HD for $300 + media costs without adding much bulk or complication to the whole system. The Shogun will step that up to 4k and give you XLR audio, a calibrated 1080p monitor, and scopes for about the same price as panasonic's box alone. If you're worried about the mini-hdmi connection on the camera there are options like the LockPort or JerkStopper that can protect the connector.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

This GH4 video was uploaded to Vimeo a few hours ago.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

A very informative review and yet again confusing info about the display as he says it doesn't disappears like on the gh3, guess I will have to buy one to know for sure :)

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

As Phil says, the big difference is that for 4K/100Mbs it's long-GOP, for 1080p/200Mbs it's I-frame only - so simple numeric comparisons don't mean very much. But as a general rule *with all else equal* (normally it isn't :-) ) long-GOP will give equivalent quality to I-frame only with about half to a third the datarate.

Unlike Phil, I suspect the reasons are more mundane than sheer technical. Design a camera and on the one hand you want specs that will give you best quality - on the other realism has to be there to keep costs down such it's viable. As far as codecs go, then you want a high bitrate for quality - but low such that slower (and cheaper) memory can be used problem free, and you don't need as many GB.

In this case, whilst 200Mbs sustained recording is high for consumer memory, they may have reckoned that anyone who wants I-frame only will be prepared for the consequences of 200Mbs. But for 4K, an I-frame only mode would stretch even pro standard (and priced) memory in terms of bitrate to be worthwhile, and not be worth the issues in what is after all, primarily a stills camera.

So go to long-GOP, when 100 Mbs becomes a very good compromise between quality, cost and convenience.
I understand the codec is based on H264, with (as you say) it being able to be put into mp4 or mov containers.
I sometimes wish that all talk of 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 could be wiped from history. Go back to the advent of DV based formats and NTSC (which were 4:1:1), whilst at the same time such as NTSC DVD and transmission were 4:2:0. And since we were talking of standard definition and interlace, it is quite true *THEN* that origination in 4:2:2 made a big difference.

Move forward to High Definition and progressive and 4:2:2 becomes less significant, move to 4K and that's even more the case, certainly unless you're talking about very, very big budget equipment indeed. For a camera of the type of the GH4, any difference between 4:2:2/4:2:0 recording is likely to be insignificant compared to sensor/lens/front end factors.

Unfortunately, 4:2:2/4:2:0 is a much simpler concept, and people well remember the Standard Definition /interlace days (when it was a very valid point) and still give it far more emphasis than it remotely deserves as far as 4k is concerned.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Page 25 of the hard copy manual addresses the disappearing display . "If no operation is performed, part of the information on the screen will gradually become darker and will no longer be displayed after approximately one minute has passed. Pressing the [Disp.] button or touching the monitor will make the display reappear. This operation is to preven screen burn-in and is not a malfunction.

The display on my GH4 dims after about ten seconds and partially disappears after about one minute. This is where I was confused and said that the display disappears. Much of it does, but a record indicator, length of clip recorded, audio meters, time code,and remaining time left on card are continuously displayed in a dimmed down fashion, but here is the confusing part, What I just said is true as long as the camera is actually recording. If it is left in standby mode, in time the information will completely disappear.

I have my GH3 running as I am writing and after a time all information disappears except for the record light, length of clip recorded indicator, and remaining time, so the GH4 is improved to the extent that the audio meters are always visible while recording as is an exposure indicator.

At any rate the above is true with my individual cameras and how they are configured.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

I've noticed on my GH3 that turning the manual focus ring at all in run and gun, also brings back the disappearing information, in addition to the other tricks such as a finger passed close to the the EVF.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

This was my first project with my new Panasonic GH4 camera. I have a bit of a learning curve ahead of me as my previous experience was only with camcorders. Lenses used were the Panasonic 14-45mm, 45-175mm and Olympus 60mm macro. Other equipment included the Benro S6 tripod and Glideshot jib.
Shot in standard and cine-v all 0s. ISO 800 and 1600.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Well done, Mark.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Looks very nice indeed, great color and sharpness, did you shoot in 4k or 1080p?
Here the gh4 is still not available in stores.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Thanks. It was shot in 1080p. My NLE will not handle 4k. I think shooting in 1080p 200 Mbps looks good enough that I will pass on down converting from 4k for a while.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Anyone seen any 4K clips yet from the GH4 yet? Vimeo as far as I know limited to 1080p. YouTube can do 4K.

All the 1080p stuff I've seen off the GH4, some very nice like the above, doesn't look that much different to similar off the GH3. Not different enough to make me take the GH4 (and ancillaries) plunge.

Dunno whether the higher bit rate by itself will make all that much difference. Footage straight off my nanoFlash and XLH1 or EX3 looks the same whether at 50mbps or 200mbps.

Ron

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Found some! On YouTube by a bloke called Brian Harvey. Shot in Yucatan, professionally shot I must say with a bag of lenses, mini-helicopter thingie, sliders etc .

Looks v good even on this iMac which "only" about 2.5K.

Ron

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

I just saw below gh4 video which is one of the better I have seen so far, you can also download a higher rez copy, there are already many gh4 user videos appearing on vimeo but have to say not many impress me, when I look at below sample however, eventhough he used a anamorphic adapter, I can only conclude that the output quality depends a lot on tweaking the presets.

Lots of people post videos in that 96fps mode which I am tired of seeing by now and with many videos I saw poor dynamic range and handheld shots which displayed some kind of jitter/wobbly kind of effect. In his handheld shots around the 50 second mark you can see what I mean and it seems to be worse in 4k compared to 1080p and especially on longer focal ranges. As I understood this has to do with the fact that in 4k you get a worse rolling shutter?

Anyways, looking at below footage I can see it is a very capable camera, only needs the right kind of tweaking to get the most of it.

Edit: just watched the download version, ik looks impressive on my 21:9 1080p monitor, lots of detail in there.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

My buddy just put this up the other day- Vimeo at 1080, Youtube for the 4K version. I've worked with him with this camera at 1080 once and it's pretty impressive. Wish I made more money on video to make it worth the purchase, but it does look good. Look in the comments for his settings used for shooting this- and yes, it is graded footage.



--Ben

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

That's better!

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

what are the 2 holes in the front of YAGH unit

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

What external recorders are compatible with the GH4's 4K output? I know the Convergent Design "Odyssey" isn't but what is?

I'm about (I think) to have to replace two damaged SWIT monitors. Handy if this could be with one that is a recorder/monitor combined.


Ron

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Didn't really like his grading. Colors looked off and flat and overall it seemed to have a washed out look to it. I viewed this in 4K and the detail was OK.

I'll say this, unlike many GH4 videos I've seen, the colors were not over-saturated with orangey skin tones.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

It won't be a look I would use at a wedding because all my other camer'a s would have to match which would be too difficult and maybe impossible to achieve, but for projects where I can just use one camera I could see myself using his color presets, all ax100 footage I have seen so far looks a lot like the footage my cx730 produces and while it's close to reality it has that distinct video look which I don't like that much. I do prefer images with a bit more character, with my fruits de mer video (vimeo.com/73974687) I shot with the gh3 I used old tamron adaptall lenses and the images are not as sharp and don't have that same deep richer colour that my panasonic lenses have, yet I much prefer the look of that video, just like I much prefered the look of that YOKOHAMA video shot with the gh4 over anything I have seen from the ax100 so far.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Yeah, I'm not much in to stylized videos, they don't do much for me. I much prefer the doc style, look of reality, with as much detail as I can get. If I was doing Indie type work, I might think differently.

Of course if I want to play with a look later, I've got plenty of ways to alter the AX100 image in post. But for my style, I always try to get an image that's closest to how my eyes saw it.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

The biggest advantage the gh4 has is that you have a lot of control over your image right in camera. An 8 bit image does fall apart much quicker in post so you would have the most benefit getting it right from the start. For some shoots where you would have to shoot high contrast scenes with very bright sun a very dark shadows the gh4 will give a you a lot more flexibility getting more detail out of the shadows and prevent the highlights from blowing out.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Really have not had much problem with high contrast scenes with the AX100. I had the GH4 for a while, but felt even with the color lowered to -2, it was still too saturated.

To get the accuracy I want, the GH4 required more work in post even with the greater in-camera adjustments. To my eyes the Sony gets it right from the get go.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Hi

Another I would add is 0-255 video capture, this provides extra latitude for post, factor that in with the options to adjust all manner of the picture capture settings the GH4 is very flexible. The higher video bit-rates also allow for better grading.

The GH4 and AX100 are as different as chalk and cheese, for a start one is a mirrorless digital camera with a 4/3rds sensor and interchangeable lenses, the other is a traditional (even if rather big and heavy for 2014) camcorder. Different tools for different jobs aren't they?

Regards

Phil

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Anyone experiencing any lockups while recording in 4K? I have seen several reports from users appearing about the camera locking up during record, you can see it here: https://twitter.com/miggohoo/statuse...32171712946176

That's the last thing I would expect to happen during a live event, not very reassuring.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Is this for relatively prolonged recording? I read of somebody who left the cam in 4K record mode for it to "lock up" after about 10 minutes continual recording.
Wonder if there is also a problem shooting series of short duration clips, as I do with wildlife videoing.

All a bit hypothetical yet 'cos I don't know when my ordered GH4 will be available here in UK.

Ron

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

I haven't had it lock up while recording, but had it lock up several times while sitting in stand-by mode during the first week or so I had it.. I had to remove and replace the battery to restore operation. You couldn't even get the camera to power down by turning off the switch. It hasn't happened lately. I use the camera most every day to film wildlife, but haven't been doing a lot of actual filming--usually just a few short clips each day.

Re: Press Release: Panasonic Announces 4K Mirrorless DMC-GH4
 

Well that is not good at all, quite alarming really, imagine having the gh4 on a steadicam in standby waiting for that shot you cannot miss (the couples entrance in the venue, the wedding cake, the first dance) and the camera locks up, or it locks up during record. If one of my current camera's would lock up more then once I"d sell it right away. Lets hope Panasonic will fix this, the camera is useless if it doesn't record when you want it to.