Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I don't think camera engineers actually shoot video because of the boneheaded screwups they make. I just made a nasty discovery. If a GH2 is recording video, you CAN'T change the ISO value. If an engineer actually shot video, he would never release a product with a major deficiency like this! If I need to change the gain on my EX1R while it's recording, all I have to do is flip the gain switch. I can even go into the menu and change the gain value assigned to the switch while it's recording. I think a big part of the problem is that the GH2 was designed by photo cameras guys so they are video ignorant in some ways.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Isn't there a setting though wherein the iso is automatically adjusted on the fly as you shoot?

Not the same I know, but I always cut my gh2 slack because it was so cheap.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I know Jim. That's why I feel it's necessary to run in auto iso at weddings, no choice. At least in many scenarios. When things are stable, etc, fine, but otherwise, we get blindsided and we're screwed. It happened to me when they turned the sanctuary lights off a second before the bride appeared Saturday. I was told the lights were set the way they we're going to stay, but that's not what happened. I had an extensive, amicable, conversation with the guy who was running the music and lighting beforehand, but the information didn't match what happened.

I had intended to run in auto iso, but I don't know if I stuck with that or not.

The GH2 is very difficult to shoot with for run and gun. Very tough, but I'm slowly learning it. I have a couple of dozen weddings scheduled so far, and I normally shoot alone, but I'm getting an intern from the local video school to monitor cameras, I can't handle this at my age.

I shot with up to four cameras alone using Sony's, but the GH2/GH1 has me whipped!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

This is pretty funny when you think about it. It IS a photo camera after all and I'm not sure how good a photo camera would be when designed by video engineers. No wait. There IS that button on my video camera....hmmmmm

Joking aside, it is a deficiency for video... not unlike no ND filters, 12 minute record times, noisy aperture rings...small batteries....bottom loading media slots.... oh and MOIRE

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Les, you are mistaken. With the GH2 and GH1 recording time is limited by battery only, and the moire issue is a non-issue. With a power pack I can shoot up to 8 hours non-stop. But with multiple cameras the battery thing sucks.

I've shot with the cameras over thirty hours and have yet to see any issue with moire. It is head and shoulders above my old FX1000 in this department, as are the images. I started a thread complaining about moire, and the issue was with transcoding the footage properly, not the camera. The issue was with operator error, not the camera.

Regarding ND filters, the ND filters offered on video cameras is usually 1 or 2 choices, often with less than stellar results. With my new Genus variable ND filter that I tested yesterday, I get much more pleasing footage, and if you know you are shooting outdoors it takes all of 30 second or less to attach it, and the same amount of time to remove.

The moire issue is normally brought up when someone who is new to HD hasn't learned how to process the footage. It has happened to me, and I've seen it happen to others.

There are also those who thinks the GH2 is immune to moire, and they create riduculous tests, and when they find out it is still a CMOS sensor, they want to sell their cameras.

The GH2 is not immune to moire, but it is incredibly good in that department, and much betrter than anything I've shot with. I've not seen a single instance yet with mine.

$250,000 cameras have issues with judder, which is one of the reasons they have DPs. These cameras are not bullet proof miracle cameras, though sometimes we expect them to be.

I find they are challenging to use for wedding work, but the results are very promising.

For the typical small time event guy like me, it requires more engergy than most are willing to expend. Videographers often talk about how much easier photography is than videography. That never fails to make me laugh. These cameras are forcing video people to learn photography, and it can get pretty ugly to see. The first place we will place the blame is on the camera.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Also can't change ETC or White Balance. Shrug. Way back when I was trying to shoot events with 16mm film, it was also mighty difficult to change ISO in the middle of a take, so I easily overlook that. The other two problems are slightly more bothersome.

Personally, I'm still infatuated with the small form factor plus quality plus flexibility. No camera is perfect for everything.

As they say, you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have - the facts of life.

The facts of life.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Nice website Kevin. Complete focus on the video. Nice approach. Great work. Moving stories.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I have been doing more real world tests with the GH2. This weekend was a run and gun situation and a performance situation in a gymnasium. After a mediocre results with hand holding the camera last weekend I mounted the GH2 with the 14/140 lens on a Spiderbrace. The job was to go around a martial arts seminar and get shots of teachers and students interacting plus record a competition and demonstration. The camera was set to 720p.

The gym was a horrific lighting mixture of mercury vapor lamps and overcast grey sunlight coming from all sides. After seeing color shift between shots, I put the white balance on "shade" and left it there, easy enough to adjust later. Due to the large windows and the shiny floor, I set every function to manual to prevent the camera from adjusting when the background was very different from the subject. Even with all the light coming in the windows I found the floor to be dark and had the camera from 2000 to 3200 ISO depending on the time of day although I could have had a lower ISO but I'll explain later.

The brace made things very easy for steady, comfortable hand held shooting. The 14/140 lens is very stiff compared to typical video lens but Panasonic makes a lens clamp that supposedly gives the user more leverage for live zooming. This was the first time I was able to test the accessory in the real world. I can say that the lens is still stiff with the attachment but after two days of shooting I can now perform some smooth fast zooms when the need arises.

As the day progressed I found the focus situation the most troubling as the LCD isn't sharp enough and using the viewfinder isn't comfortable with the particular camera brace I am using although I did use it frequently. If the subject was something more sedentary like pottery I would have had an easier time but the martial arts move all over the place with people getting thrown around the room and such. I decided to go for a high f-stop and get the widest focal field. The focal assist on the camera is great but it's very hard to use in action situations, I would prefer peaking focal assist like the JVC HD cameras have. Shooting on the tripod was easier and I could relax a little with DOF.

Yes, it's annoying when I can't adjust certain functions while shooting as I can with my video camera, but it can be worked with. Maybe I haven't translated the manual yet but how can I turn off the white level peak warning? It was driving me crazy and I couldn't find anything about it in the menus. I plan to use the GH2 to shoot a music video in a studio next week but the dance concert this week, not so sure. Probably will use my trusty old JVC HD100 although it's a backbreaker compared to the convenient GH2.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

It's not on by default so you must have been fiddling about:-) It's on the first page of the CUSTOM MENU - HIGHLIGHT OFF/ON described on page 130 of my PAL version manual. I like having this switched on as well as the histogram as it helps me make sure that I don't over-expose too much. It will only flash when highlights are really blown. It's not like adjustable zebras on a proper video camera.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Nigle is right, I've never experienced it on my camera, and it is turned off by default.

The menu, IMO, is overly rich with features. But my last photo camera was a Canon 40D, and seemed to be a walk in the park compared to this thing.

The GH2 is really a gadget, more than anything else. It is not even close to a serious video camera, but then again it wasn't supposed to be.

I learned my lesson after the monitor debacle. I have to realize this is a camera whose target audience are amateurs, hobbyists. Most advanced pros seem to use it as a adjunct to a Canon Mark series, or other camera.

We can get some great footage with it, but learning it's limitations is not fun.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Don't take me wrong, I really like my GH2. I always chuckle when the apologists sidestep design shortcomings by the coverall excuse, "After all, it's just a photo camera." My perspective is; if you decided to put some serious video features in the camera, bring a couple of real video camera engineers over from the video camera division and have them do a through design review - AND, listen to them. The shortcoming that some have mentioned aren't because of inherent limitations of the camera's form factor. They are limitations of the design engineers and their lack of video camera design experience. In Panasonic's defense, they did a vastly better job incorporating video functionality that the Canon engineers did.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Ain't that the truth! There is lot of useless stuff that I cannot see even regular amateurs wanting to use like being able to enter the name of your pet or baby or the date of the first day of your vacation. Then there is frankly bizarre stuff like being able to produce bracketed photos with different aspect ratios!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Yes Jim it could have been better, with a few tweaks, but my point is that it is not supposed to be better, it is not even serious stills camera.

I suspect the engineers are bossed around and not calling the shots on what can be included anyway. They are probably given marching orders, or they come up with innovations, and those that are ultimately included are not their call in the end anyway. Who knows, but that is how I envision it.

For example, the GH1 comes with a cord to run the camera with an ac cord, the GH2 doesn't. Pure greed, or at least it would seem that way. Or they felt so few people use that accesorie that they might have felt the cord and adapter was a waste to include with the new version.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

That was on but when I turned it off on Saturday as an experiment, nothing changed at all. The blinking on the overexposed windows continued. Anyway I didn't associate "Highlight" with overexposure although "High Light" would have clued me. Thanks for the tip but I have to figure out why it doesn't turn off,

The camera isn't pro, that's for sure, but like many non-pro cameras, it's "pro capable". Some of the footage from this weekend is better than anything a comparable priced pro video camera can do.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I'm having trouble assigning buttons via the menu. I've done it before, but now it is not working properly. I spent about 30 minute repeatedly assigning button functions and they took in the menu, but they don't work. Seems camera is glitchy in this regard.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I'm going to try turning the Highlight off again tonight but if it doesn't work I'll do a full reset.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I almost did a reset, but I'm trying to avoid having to change everything back again, I've done it several times already. The process is good for helping to learn the camera though.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

The "Rec Highlight" menu function turns the blinking overexposure warning on or off.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

My list was not directed at the GH2. Rather the sum of "deficiencies" found in various DSLR approaches to video.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I suspected as much, Les, but then since we're in the gh2 forum, well, anyway, it's a nice camera, but certainly has it's challenges.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

To make my point explicit, this "shortcoming" just joins the list of shortcomings of shooting video on DSLRs. Some are "more short" than others to some people. For example, you apparently don't think twice about using a battery pack. Still others don't mind visiting their camera every twelve minutes and splicing lost footage from other cameras or whatever.

It's a little disappointing tho to find it on a DSLR that has made such strides in video (especially in moire) yet is still decent at the stills thing. :-)

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

All in all, Les, if I had to do again, I would've gone a different course than using these glorified point and shoots.

The work involved, the matching of settings between camera, then ooops, the lights been lowered now I have to run around and change them all. From my wedding Saturday, my fourth, wide camera in the balcony has to be fixed in post because it was set perfectly, then at the last second before the bride comes out they turned the lights out, and meanwhile, I'm on the main floor.

Most folks use these camera as supplements to "regular" video cameras, and it that is a sensible approach.

I would trade two good low light video cameras over four of these anytime. I really miss the zoom on the FX1000, etc, and have a real respect for the technology that went into them, particularly the lenses.

I suspect/hope that most prosumer/low end pro cams will be developed with a single larger sensor with the traditional video features. That is what I'm waiting for. In the meantime, I will learn more about photography then I ever wanted to know using these!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

. "Still others don't mind visiting their camera every twelve minutes and splicing lost footage from other cameras or whatever."
?? What 12 minutes?

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

The Canon DSLRs have a 12minute/4GB file size recording limit.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Yes but we are not talking about Canon's. My Nikon D7000 shoots for 20 min. and of course the GH2 can go on and on and is not a DSLR. These restrictions are lifting. Its only relevant on the 7D forum.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Coming from 25 plus years of video camera operation and longer as an amateur still photographer I can clearly say that using the GH2 is a wide step sideways in video recording over a low end industrial/prosumer video camera. Manual operation is a pain to get used to but less annoying than a camera like the Sony HD1000 which costs the same as a GH2 with the 10x lens. Compared to a low end pro 3-chip HD camera, the GH2 is a pain to use in situations that are fast changing. For interviews, controlled dramatic filming and beauty shots for advertising or promotionals, the GH2 is a very, very good camera for the price. For news, events (weddings, stage shows, etc.) and uncontrolled situations, a standard video camera is probably better.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

William, your post really sums it up perfectly. Well said.

Though I'm still planning my plan of attack with my current batch of cameras, I don't see a way around acquiring a "real" video camera, the sooner the better. I sold off my old ones, but I'm thinking a FX1000 would make my life SO much easier. And the end product would be superior to boot because I would have consistent, usable shots at all times, at least from one camera. I cannot run four of these babies by myself. I thought because I ran four regular video cameras alone I could do this, but it's too much.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I agree totally, but I don't think anyone was going to use it in a run and gun environment.
For me it is a second lockdown camera for my EX3, the 2 cut quite well together . But I think the GH2 is good in an entirely controlled situation like a doc or feature...or as an add on using it on my Blackbird as a steady cam type of shot.
But using it where people are moving around would be quite challenging. I can not see using it at an event shooting.
A friend of mine finally sold his Canon 7D to buy the new Sony NEX-VG10. It gave him a video camera with a large sensor and interchangeable lenses.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

And yet, I will do it! I will master this camera!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I agree Jim. I use an EX1R and find the GH2 footage works very well with it. I shot a wedding with both of them Saturday and they are a great pair to work with. I got shots with each of them that would have been a problem with the other. I don't know where this 'one kind of camera' thinking comes from. Must have been a virus someone picked up over in the Canon-ites forum.

He said, "By gum, my hammer is better than your screwdriver!"

I said, "Not at driving screws it isn't!"

BTW the wedding I shot was at Pebble Beach in a private estate next to the 14th tee. I thought of this very issue as I watched the golfers choose the appropriate club for each "shooting" situation. Wouldn't it have been weird if some lumpkin tried to play the course with just one "best" golf club. This is exactly the same thing as the point I made about cameras.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

How well does the GH2 compare to the EX3 in terms of image quality? I owned an EX3 for a while, when I look back at my EX3 footage it doesn't look as good, but it's hard to compare because no AB comparison.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I love my GH2. I don't care about it's shortcomings. I'm perfectly capable of working around them. The GH2 is fun to shoot with and the image quality is fantastic. I enjoy reading your comments, but I really have nothing to complain about. It's a great camera.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

double post.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Jim. Read up. Post #19 should help you.

This thread is about a supposed "Major Shortcoming" of the Gh2. It's a DSLR. You are shooting video with it. Each V-DSLR has shortcomings of some kind...I listed some examples. It's perfectly relevant to this thread. Put it in perspective: Don't like your camera's shortcomings? Get a camcorder. Then you can complain about it's shortcomings. LOL

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I feel it's tremendously healthy to discuss perceived shortcomings of the equipment we're using, and strategies for getting around them. It's not "complaining," it's discussion.

The fact is that the GH1/GH2 shoots better-looking, higher-quality video than the "real" video cameras most of us use. They are perfectly viable for any shooting situation, and it's up to the operator to work through the "shortcomings" of the device to achieve his/her goals. It shouldn't be dismissed because "it's a DSLR." Heck, if my blender shot 32Mbps 1080/60p video, I'd shoot with it.

And is it possible for us all to drop the argument about whether or not the GH1/GH2 is a DSLR? I'm getting more and more turned off this forum because of this pointless back-and-forth.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I agree, the disucssion is a healthy one, for the most part. The difficulties, obstacles to overcome, are important to discuss, and will likely become whiny at times.

I have whined a lot, but in my defense it gets stressful working with these cams. On the other hand, as pointed out, they can be used as primary cameras, it's just not as easy as we would like.

Since I'm facing a busy wedding season with them, I will from time to time freak out. It's easy to miss a setting, forget to focus, when your running multiple versions of these. Thing you don't catch on the LCD because you're in a hurry will really bite you later.

But when you get it right, it sure looks great!

I shot a speaker last week who loves her video, she loves the way it looks. I ran three camera and it turned out very nicely.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

It would be incredibly difficult to pull off with my GH2 what I used to be able to do with several Sony V1U's and a Canon HV20... I would set up the HV20 as a wide angle shot, then the B-roll V1U, then operate the primary V1U myself. I just think that if you're transitioning to the DSLR video workflow, you have to totally revamp your workflow and be realistic. To go with my GH2, I bought a Panasonic TM700. I keep that as my wide angle because it always keeps footage in focus (removing the TM700 pulldown via Cineform to match the 24p I shoot with the GH2). When I capture concerts live, unfortunately I'm just not comfortable yet with the GH2 to get great shots on the fly, and I rent EX1's.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

James, you are so right. I think Jim, having an EX3, and the other Jim with an EX1, are using the GH2 quite sensibly, as second or third cams, etc.

In my case the wedding I shot Saturday didn't come out as I would like, but I'm also confident the customer will be quite happy.

Then again the first wedding I shot with it was close to a disaster. With some creative editing they'll be happy, but I'll spend so much time in post it will be ridiculous.

The next wedding I shoot will be the best yet. I shot a receiving line last week handheld, and the footage was surprisingly nice, but man, you really have to stay on top of the focusing.

It is tough, but can be used for weddings, just tricky. It takes a tremendous amount of concentration.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Technically the GH2 is not a DSLR (single lens reflex) it is a mirror less system camera. Read up.
If you go to B&H you will not find the GH2 listed under DSLR's. I have a camcorder and I love my EX3 and I love my GH2, I just don't ask them to do the same thing. I mostly use my GH2 because it it so portable and fun to shoot but if I have a full shoot I will use my Sony. They complement each other beautifully. I just had to match the color profiles on both. I jave no complaints on either camera, as Jim S says they are different tools used for different jobs. If you have a major complaint just make sure you are talking about the GH2.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

And I will as well. But still, tomorrow's dance concert: my trusty old JVC HD100, Monday and Tuesday's music video shoot: the GH2. We'll see......