Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I, and the majority of others who have commented in this thread, think the GH2 is a great camera. The negative comments aren't pointless "whining"; they are valid comments. No doubt Panasonic's marketing department reads this column also. There is a lot of useful feedback for them that may result in some improvements to the GH2 and succeeding cameras. They are getting some very useful product review information from some people who represent actual users.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Thought I would jump in here. I seem to be bucking a common consensus here, that using the GH2 *with* a real video camera is key. I actually sold off all my video cameras. I shoot with all DSLRs at the moment, and use my GH2 as my back camera on sticks. I had and was using a Panny HMC-150 for that (became extra when I bought DSLRs) and downgraded (upgraded?) to the GH2 because I can set it and forget it, while it shoots continuously. But mostly because I can throw my GH2 with 20mm pancake lens in a tiny corner of my main camera bag and bring it everywhere with me, as opposed to needing an entirely separate camera bag for my HMC-150.

I couldn't imagine shooting an entire wedding with the GH2, with the shortcomings it has. I respect those of you that are doing it, but I'll take my 7D/5Dm2 any day for the whole day. For me, using it solely for the ceremony cover-shot, and occasionally for a cover-shot for some reception events, is absolutely perfect.

Jeff Harper, we're neighbors and have never met! We should get together sometime.



+ Dan Shallenberger + Poetic Cinema + Poetic Cinema +

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Dan, hello, I know of you. Didn't you work with Matt? Nice to hear from you!

Dan, GH2 owners wax on about the perceived advantages of the camera over the Canons, which is to be expected by enthusiastic owners.

In my case, I know nothing about the Canon you use except that it shoots phenomenal footage.

What are the attributes of the GH2 that make it suitable (for you) as only a cover shot cam? Your feedback, as the owner and exerienced user of both, would be invaluable.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Yes, I did used to work for Matt. I've been running my own company now for about 1 1/2 years. I live right down the road from Jeff Hill, next to Kings Island.

I think in comparison, between my 7D and GH2, the GH2 certainly holds its own. From my experience, up to around iso 800, the 7D excels. Between 800 and 1600, the GH2 is slightly better. Then the 7D gains ground after that, although over 1600 is crap for either camera.

Regarding using it as a cover cam, I was using my Panny HMC-150, but it was just too bulky. I started looking around for a replacement that would offer similar image quality, smaller size, adaptability, and ability to record continuously without the ridiculous 12-minute limit, and maybe a tad of usefulness as a backup camera if necessary.

I tried the GH1 with 14-140 at first, because the price went down shortly before the GH2 came out. For lack of a better term, it sucked, and it was too new to be hacked. So, I returned it and luckily found a GH2 with the 14-42 for the same price. It has everything I wanted. The image quality is amazing at 1080p24. It's so small I can place it in a little corner in my main camera bag and have it with me all the time without it taking up so much space. I can adapt it to different situations just by changing the lens. I can record 1.5 hours straight with my 16gb SDHC cards. And I would trust it as a backup camera in the event my DSLRs were not operable or available. It's perfect. Plus, I will use it for personal photography and video while on vacations.

I bought the EOS to m4/3rds adapter, and I love it. It opens up my GH2 to all my Canon lenses, albeit at the maximum aperture. Sure looks funny with the tiny little GH2 sitting at the back of 70-200 f/2.8.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Some interesting analysis vis-a-vis issues with doing video in a photographic form factor (note I did NOT use the "D" word). Also interesting assessment of the uMFT aspect ratio and pixel size all from a product manager who admits to repackaging a V-photocamera into a camcorder (VG10).

Sony VideON | NEXFS100U Camcorder - Sony Pre-NAB 2011 Training | Most Recent

And, for those who mis-read and misinterpret my posts, I am actually a fan of the GH2.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Dan, thanks for your feedback. I edited my previous post to be clearer, I should have said I know nothing about the Canon except it is phenomenal, as I wrote it seemed I was referring to the GH2.

My main issue with the GH2 is the size, probably above all else. It is much too small to work with in wedding scenario comfortably. The small size has some advantages, but they outweigh the cons. It is too easy to hit a button accidntally, and that happens a lot, particularly when hand held. The number of people that pop in front of the camera when I'm filming who think I'm a photographer is a bit odd, but it shows the greater comfort level the folks have with the camera, as opposed to a conventional videocamera, which people will run from.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I too find the small size irritating. For the last couple of years I have mostly been using a Canon 5DII with a battery grip & that now feels exactly the right size that a camera should be.

It's crazy to put the shutter & aperture adjustment on that single wheel . It's so easy to be adjusting the aperture & press a little too hard & suddenly you have changed the shutter speed. For video use I really would like to be able to lock the shutter speed at 1/50 & know that I couldn't accidentally change it.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I have had to learn to be careful when picking up or handling my GH2 to avoid accidentally pressing the menu, ISO and other buttons on the back. That is true in one way or another with other cameras as well. The size aspect wasn't an issue for me since I haven't been using a DSLR. My main camera is an EX1R and the transition to the GH2 was huge, almost scary. The mere fact that a new camera represents a new and different ergonomic challenge is just 'dues to pay' for the change. I can understand that those who have used a 5D Mk II for example find the GH2 to feel different in hand. I remember when the Canon 7D was introduced I read the exact same comment about the diminutive side of the 7D. With that said, I didn't expect the GH2 to feel like my EX1R when I picked it up. I suppose those accustomed to the Canon 1D Mk IV found the 5D a bit cramped in hand as well.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Heck Jim, as a former 40d user the GH2 feels miniscule, and that is a pretty small camera. As someone somewhere posted, it seems to be made for a child's hands! But then again it's called micro four thirds, isn't it.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

To varying degrees, people tend to resist change to anything that is different or unfamiliar. The switch to the GH2 from my EX1R was nearly traumatic. ;-) It's all related to what one is familiar with. An associate has been using a GH1 since it was introduced. Their comment at a recent videographers association meeting was the reverse when they picked up a 5D Mk II - "Ugh, I would hate to handle this hog all day long." It's the different part that gets people. I suppose some would find the transition from driving a school bus to a sports car a bit traumatic as well. I wouldn't spend a lot of energy listening to them telling me how much better a school bus is than a sports car though.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

" I can record 1.5 hours straight with my 16gb SDHC cards. And I would trust it as a backup camera in the event my DSLRs were not operable or available. It's perfect. Plus, I will use it for personal photography and video while on vacations."


Curious, shooting 1.5 hours with the GH2 if you found it overheating and shutting down like the 7D as been known to do?

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Jim, I forget why the other cams overheat, but that is not possible with the GH2.

I have run a GH1 for 2 hours, stopping only to change batteries, no problems.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Another thing about the size Jim. If you are using the camera (GH2) as a lock down, size is not an issue. Buttons not so much an issue, accidentally hitting things not an issue.

However, if you are shooting handheld, it's different story.It is nearly impossible to get through a session of run and gun without hitting a button by accident.

It happens most often when picking up the camera. If you pick it up by the correct side, you can easily hit the wb, iso, or f2 button, which I have done a zillion times. You almost have to pick it up with your fingertips, because it's the fleshy area on the hand below where your thumb is attached that hits the button.

It really is not suited for run and gun, but it will get me through till the next thing.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

OK, here's a real serious GH2 temporary shortcoming: no AC adapter, anywhere! Listed on the Panasonic web site but no retailer in NYC has it even listed in their inventory except Adorama that has it as backordered. But they never have seen one.

Has anyone noticed the battery life while feeding a HDMI monitor? The same as using the LCD? Sort of need to know before Monday, I only have two batteries for a full day shoot.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I had to buy a GH2 for our company to shoot long lectures, and I have to say I really can't stand this camera. The menus are just completely annoying and non-intuitive, and why on earth would they only offer 24p at the hi-res setting?

I feel sorry for anyone who bought this camera for wedding work. My God... trying to run and gun with this thing must be a nightmare. Not to mention if you shoot in 24p good luck trying to get the footage to look good on DVD unless every single shot is on a tripod.

I think it's manageable for corporate work, but its shortcomings are too many to list.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I hate not to flog this dead horse, but I find the GH2 a wonderful tool for creating stunning images. I currently own a Panasonic HMC40, TM700, GH2 and Canon 7D. They all can create wonderful video, and are all different in respect to how I must operate them for best result. They all have issues that challenge my abilities, but for the most part, my shortcomings are what prevent these cameras from producing good video.

I do believe, at this point in time, we would be hard pressed to find another $900 camera that is as versatile and capable as the GH2.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Come on Dan, can't you think of ANYthing bad to say? (kidding of course!).

William, you will likely want to have some batteries over-nighted. The AC coupler is also not available, I've been waiting for it for awhile!

B&H does have the generic batteries which reportedly last longer than than the OEM versions. If you bought two or three of them you'd be in good shape, just take your charger with you!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Jeff, if you can't shoot 24fps for any reason, 720p is a perfectly acceptable mode for most work. We would all love to have 1080 60p, I am chief among them, but 720p is pretty darn nice with this camera.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Nope, it's never overheated at all. Jeff H is right that it won't. It was designed to better dissipate the heat.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I concur with the non-overheating issue. I've recorded up to 90 minutes continuous footage with no problems whatsoever. However, the only reason we use the GH2 is for the long recording times. Anything that doesn't require length, we'll use the Canon 5D, 7D or 60D.

The GH2 is clunky and difficult. I sum it up as being a dumbed down "consumer" camera that 'can' produce a professional image under the right circumstances, but it sure is a pain in the ass to get there.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I'm with you for the most part, Jeff. My only use for it is to record for long periods of time from the balcony so I don't have to tread up there every 10 minutes to stop/start it. If I'm running the camera, it's a 7D or 5Dm2. It's fully capable of being main camera, but the small size of the GH2 is the biggest hindrance for me, with the single dial for aperture and shutter speed coming in a very close second. Like I said before, I have respect for those using it for main camera at weddings, but I sure couldn't do it.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

personaly i admit to canons edging it in skin tone but as an ex 550D/T2i owner its all it wins on, dont forget the canon resolution is like sd compared to the GH2s,if DVD is the required format that wont matter but for me who likes to finish with blu ray or avchd disc it matters.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I have 3 GH2's and 1 GH1. I used all four tonight to record a concert. 99 minutes of continuous non stop recording and not one of them overheated or crashed. Bulletproof.
A lot of you are complaining that it's too small? Huh? That's one of the cool things about it! I have FOUR cameras in my backpack now. FOUR!!! Imagine lugging around 4 EX3's? Btw, the GH2 is better in low light than EX3 with the stock lens. No comparison. I think the image is better too.

I do have issues with the menus.

Btw, one of my GH2's tonight had a $12,000 12-250mm lens on it with a Zacuto follow focus. Sweet. And next time I rent a Canon 200mm f2.8, I'll check to make sure it has an aperture ring. Duh.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

No generic batteries there as of yesterday.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Well, William, that stinks. It woud seem after your initial battery expires, you'll be using your charger. Sorry to hear abou that. In NYC one would think there would be ONE of those batteries somewhere!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I have one of them. They don't read out the battery life, but last real well. Price is right.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I am seriously considering not using the camera on Monday due to the battery issue. Fortunately I have other options and the shoot will be single performers against a photo black curtain so shallow depth of field is not a big, big need.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Brian, how long do you get with the generic? I have no idea how long they are good for and have been afraid to use them!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Brain, fully expect to see footage from your shoot, awesome, love to see it. You sound as if you are really enjoying the cameras!

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

All right, guys, I did my best to read through all 5 pages of posts, but if I missed anything...sorry.

Let me confirm and sum it up: The GH2 is no good for weddings/run and gun. If used for weddings, it should be coupled with a real video camera (not a DSLR or EVIL cam). Canon DSLRs such as the 60d/7d/5dii are much better than the GH2 for weddings/run and gun.

Does that seem about right?

I keep hearing that the GH2 sucks for weddings and needs to be paired with a real pro videocam for weddings, but not a lot of explanation as to why. Is it because the GH2 is physically too small in size that buttons get mis-pressed? Or are the people with this complaint saying all DSLRs, including the larger 60d/7d/5dii are still too small (when compared to a video camera)?

I'm curious why people are saying GH2 sucks for weddings? And why does it need to be paired with a video camera? Is it because the shallow DOF is hard to work with at run and gun/wedding situations? If so, then any DSLR would cause that problem including the Canons.

I'm trying to decide if the GH2 or the Canon 60d is better for wedding work.

Let me see if I can bullet point the pros and cons of the GH2 for weddings:

GH2 Pros:
-no recording limit (compared to the 12 min of the Canon DSLRs)
-no overheating
-triple core processors (outputs full HD resolution to an external monitor via HDMI)
-longer battery life (compared to the 60d, despite the 60d's battery having more capacity because the 60d's LCD screen sucks up battery juice)
-mirrorless
-virtually non-existent moire/aliasing (60d has bad aliasing/moire/rolling shutter)
-better rolling shutter control than 60d, but still present
-resolves at much higher real resolution than the 60d
-noticeably less noise than 60d
-60p at 1080, however it's then compromised by 1080i and 24p or something
-small form factor (apparently also a huge con)
-1:1 zoom crop without digital zoom
-2x crop factor (or more like 1.8 or 1.9x in reality because of the GH2 sensor is a bit unique for Micro 4/3 in that it uses a 16:9 aspect ratio)
-3D capable (though this is more of a gimmick, novelty feature I feel)
-can adapt older, but super high quality lenses (that are now considered vintage and really inexpensive to buy) that the 60d cannot
-strong continuous tracking autofocus with certain lens like the kit 14-140mm that lets it be easily used on steadicams (does this tracking AF work for the Canon EF lenses or other lenses?)

GH2 Cons:
-way too small - why is this an issue? because it's easy to accidentally press the wrong button?
-can't adjust ISO while recording
-can't adjust White Balance while recording
-can't adjust ETC? (not sure) what is ETC anyways?
-shutter and aperture settings can be easily messed up because they use the same button
-needs 2.5mm to 3.5mm adaptor for audio mic (though I will be using a Zoom H4N)
-far worse LCD resolution than the Canon 60d
-far less robust build quality
-not as good low light slightly compared to 60d (because of smaller sensor?)
-uglier aesthetically (imo)
-less "street cred" as the Canons seem to hold the "brand image" professional feel more; Lumix feels amateur - however, when it comes to video work, I believe the image quality is more important than street cred, and the GH2 IQ beats the 60d in virtually every video aspect
-hard to acquire AC adaptor
-hard to acquire camera body in general

60D Pros:
-way higher build quality, doesn't feel so plasticky (though it's not magnesium alloy either)
-bigger physically (seems to be the perfect size for my hands, the GH2 does feel too small for comfortable operation)
-far better LCD resolution
-has the better street cred and professional image to your clients
-normal 3.5mm audio jack
-slightly larger sensor (so slightly shallower DOF and I'm guessing better light sensitivity?)
-better stills camera (but far worse video camera in terms of image quality and feature set - physical controls and ergonomics are debatable)
-don't need adaptor for Canon EF lens and L lenses (though I hear there is an adaptor for the M4/3 that can not just adapt these Canon lenses, but also control the aperature...not just making the Canon aperature stuck on the default widest settings)
-possibly will get a stable Magic Lantern update in the future - though I'm still unclear what kind of feature set this would bring over the already existing feature set of the GH2? anyone care to explain?
-only 1.6x crop factor (though I hear in reality, it's more like 1.7x, whereas the GH2 in reality is 1.8 or 1.9x)
-better low light because of slightly larger sensor (not sure if it actually gives better low light)?
-doesn't overheat (compared to 7d) - so same as GH2

60D Cons:
-physically bigger (debateable - I find this to be a pro over the GH2 because it fits more comfortably in my hands)
-uses more battery power (esp. to power the LCD)
-12-min recording limit
-heavy aliasing/moire/rolling shutter compared to GH2
-fewer frame and recording formats (am I correct? I may be wrong about this point)
-does not output full HD resolution to external monitor via HDMI (and I for sure am using a Lilliput 8" 800x600 monitor)
-lower real resolution than GH2 at 1080p
-noticeably more noise than GH2
-cannot exit manual focus assist with shutter half-press like you can with GH2

Basically, it seems like the GH2 is better for video in virtually all aspects compared to the 60D, so I'm confused why people say GH2 is no good for weddings? Are you saying the GH2 in particular is no good for weddings, or are all DSLRs no good for weddings? Because I'm hearing the major complaint is that the GH2 is too small to use well for run and gun, with the buttons getting accidentally pressed, no on the fly ISO and WB, no AC adaptor, etc.

But the 60d, while larger, is still much smaller than most pro video cameras. Do you find that too small for weddings as well?

I don't really want to turn this into a DSLR/EVIL vs. video camcorder debate, because I love the AF-100 and NEX FS-100 too. I just want to understand when people say the GH2 is no good for weddings...why do they say that?

Btw, is it hard to cut footage from the GH2 together with the AF-100? With the FS-100? With the Canon DSLRs? Can they be color corrected to match nicely in post or in camera?

A few reviews I read along with this thread to gather this info as best I could. If I'm wrong about anything, please correct me.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Zhong, I think the statement that the GH2 is no good for wedding is wrong. A couple of people saying that doesn't translate to "people say". I like to use it in conjunction with my EX1R but that is just my personal style / choice. One thing to keep in mind on forums is that you need to filter comments because some aren't objective or qualified comments.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I think the GH2 is quite usable for weddings, but you must know what you are doing.

I'm committed to it, so I have no choice at this time.

On the other hand, the lens choices (without using adapters) with your canon are so much greater, no adapters needed, and not as much as a "crop" factor. the GH2 has more options, in fact, but with a Canon 60d you do not have to hunt other brands of lenses to get what you want, and you have the advantage of the huge Sigma for Canon line of lenses.

Everything on the GH2 is doubled, but not so with the 60D, correct? 50mm becomes 75mm, not 100mm, am I right? This crop factor is really too much, but can be seen as an advantage depending on how you look at it.

I strongly dislike the size of the GH2 for run and gun, it is too small. I have done several events with it, and it's like playing with a toy.

On the other hand, it is a very capable camera, and learning to overcome the obstacles is the primary challenge, and once that is done getting great images is certainly possible.

I would love to have a Canon 60d as a primary camera, and have considered it. Right now I'm sticking with the GH2 and GH1s, as I have four of them, and there is no reason I cannot make them work for my purposes.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

One thing I have learned from running forum sites for twelve years: people use them mostly for complaining. The number of folks not having problems outweighs the number of folks who do, but those people tend not to post (presumably because they're too busy enjoying their new camera). Nobody calls the police to report having a good day.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

It's not so much that you need a "real" video camera in addition to the GH2 at a wedding, but rather that having at least two cameras for coverage is ideal for cutting in post and fixing mistakes. A real video camera won't need to be checked on as often due to superior battery life, too. Also, it's good to have a camera that allows deep depth of field with low aperture values so you're not constantly adjusting focus, not necessarily at a wedding, but anywhere. Real video cameras are better for run and gun because you don't have a separate audio recorder to worry about, you don't need to screw on ND filters, you have a massive zoom range (although if you own the 14-140mm for the GH2 you're alright, although the Panny's zoom and focus rings aren't smooth, kinda gritty feeling).

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Chris is correct, and of course there is the issue that the camera is new to virtually everyone that has it, so there will tons of whining about various aspects. The problems, as they are overcome, will be less an issue as the camera is accepted for what it is and it has become learned by the users.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

So Patrick how did it go?

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

I agree, Chris. I personally love this camera. I find it way easier to use than the Canons, and after having just shot a music video using primarily T2i's (I had to use my cam one day due to an emergency), the footage from my cam blew away the T2i. The Canons aren't intuitive as far as having to menu surf for everything instead of having buttons/dials and going only a level deep into a menu like the GH2.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Jeff, I haven't done the wedding yet, it's at the end of next month. I was just saying in general.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

As I mentioned above, I really like the GH2. The complaints in a way make a person more credible with their overall opinion of the camera. I remember when I was considering buying my EX1R, a person who's opinion I respect a lot included some criticisms with his overall high opinion. That made his comments more credible to me.

Re: Serious, MAJOR GH2 Shortcoming
 

Right Patrick, it's at the end of the month, my mistake.