Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Any time they put the lens in 35mm equivalent, it should be apples to apples, or at least very close to it, since they're relating it to the old standard of 35mm/FF photography.

But as we know thus far with the fz1000, you are getting an additional crop factor when in 4k mode, bumping it to a 37mm equivalant. not very wide

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Thx Darren, exactly what I wanted to know and indeed much less usefull, does the same apply for the ax100 in 4k mode?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

and you missed the point again: it doesn't matter what kind of port you have, what really matters is what kind of remote you can attach. Varizoom, manfrotto, libec all are 2.5mm
got it now?

the sony proprietary remote for that absurd port is a toy, not really to be used for a real coverage.

now may I ask what remote are you using? I mean right now, and how many patch cables you need?

and the plastic adapter to the shoe to hold heavy stuff is like calling for troubles, absurd and plain ridiculous and brings back bad ancient memories

you can turn it the way you like but still is ridiculous. And the "proprietary" concept serves one purpose and one purpose only: TO SELL the proprietary accessories. What else?

about the time limit I agree that it was (originally) a way to save taxes in EU , but then it became an excuse to limit the offer and save the sales of the more expensive ones. look closer: what camera you can get right now with 4K, no time limit and a decent zoom and face detection? None. We all need that camera, aren't we?
They are still deciding where to go and how much they can make us pay. And again the way they (all) are doing it is disgusting. little tricks, limitations here and there, all scientifically calculated.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

No, not with regular OIS stabilization - no additional crop factor for 4K for the Ax100. Sony samples from the entire sensor in 4K mode. Only in "Active" stabilization mode, Sony crops and then there is a crop factor.

The fact that the fz1000 has an additional crop factor in 4K mode tells us that the camera is taking a crop of the sensor, and not sampling from the entire sensor, does it not? And thus the Sony 4K image will be better (less noise, more resolution) than that from the fz1000, no?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Thx Mark for that confirmation as I only wanted to know if there was any cropfactor in 4K. So that 29mm (35mm equivalent) stays 29mm in 4K, that's good to know. I would have preferred wider but 29mm (I have a hdv camera here that starts wide from 29mm so I know how that will look like) will do fine, 37mm otoh does limit shooting in narrower spaces, too bad, otherwise that fz1000 could have been a nice B-camera for my purpose.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Not sure but do you want me to answer that? Sorry to ask but I don't understand what this has to do with my question?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

That's exactly the same issue I'm having with this camera. I've been thinking about it as a backup camera but since I only film in 4k means that it's basically 37mm at its widest. At 29mm the AX100 isn't quite wide enough for me and has forced me to alter some shots but it's been workable, but at 37mm I'm not sure I could make it workable. Then again since it would be a backup camera, I guess 37mm footage would be better than no footage at all in case my AX100 broke down at a shoot, hence why I'm still contemplating it. Now I'm just trying to find out how it's AF and OIS compares to the Sony, but so far opinions are conflicting on that alas leaving me in a bit of a fog as to what the reality is.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Such a question will only result in my camera is better then yours comments, best is to ask a fz1000 owner to shoot some out- and indoor shots and let the autofocus and ois do it's thing and post that on vimeo or youtube, I believe I have seen such a video with a autofocus test for the ax100 on this forum.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I have heard no indication that that EU law has been repealed... have you? If it hasn't, it's not an "excuse", it's a real life business decision dictated by unfortunate realities... government silliness does that sometimes!

My shoe adapter for the AX100 is 100% solid METAL, cannot short anything, and is as sturdy as possible, I presume the MiShoe is part of a metal subframe, so I'm fairly confident in the way my adapter works! I only referred to older plastic adapters for the AiS.

The RM-AV2 works just fine, with the AVM1 adapter. I believe the VPR1 also works, maybe not as "fancy" (or expensive) as your "2.5mm" ones, but certainly workable.

As I stated earlier, the LANC remote "niche" market is relatively quite small, ANY manufacturer can easily attach a different plug and mod their device to work with a Sony "10 pin" port of whichever flavor. Why don't you go to them and complain that they don't? If there's this HUGE PROFIT to be made in selling LANC controllers, I'm sure they will be thrilled you brought it to their attention... or not.

When there was a need for LANC on the A/V port, adapters and LANC controllers sprung up to meet the niche market demands once the "hack" was reverse engineered (something I had a hand in at the time). I'm fine with the MULTI to A/V adapter for now, it provides all the functions I need with the remote I already had, at least for the AX100!

I WOULD like to sort out why it DOES NOT work with Cybershots... I rather prefer the tiny AV2 to the VPR1! But that's somewhat apples and oranges... Sony isn't even 100% consistent "in house"!

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Dear Dave
I bought the AX100 this morning and the multi adapter cable (avm1 I think) and none of my remotes work (varizoom and libec). BUT the vivitar works! And it has 8 constant speeds +1 variable (of the zoom) plus on-off (camera) , on-screen info on lcd on/off, on-screen info on hdmi monitor on/off, photo , start/stop rec and focus (I have to double check the focus but it seems to be working)
So the whole protocol is in there. I was about to return the camera but then the Vivitar saved it. If you want to get that 20bucks remote just let me know and I'll tell you how to make it (much) better, with no "clicks" zooming. The slowest speed for the zxoom is fairly slow and the fastest is lighting fast. then there are 9 speeds to choose, so no problem. The camera is impressive, but a bit dark in low light (but I just got it.. so it's too soon to report)
Back to the vivitar and since it's the only one with on/off switch may be that the other two (without it) set the multi port off by default. Again "maybe", anyway they don't work so be it... not going crazy to find out. The vivitar is good enough and the control of the zoom speed from the remote is priceless. So so far I'm good.
care to explain that sarcasm up there? the remote or lanc is important, Dave. You put the camera on a tripod and zoom with it, shooting sports like I do is mandatory (no other way to produce a decent coverage without it. I will use the XA20 on a crane and the remote is again important. What's so funny if I wanted to make sure that I had that option? I don't get it. After all you don't work for Sony and you are a customer like me, no? jeeeezzzz

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Dave,
sorry I didn't answer to the shoe adapter since I was fairly upset with the lanc thing. You should be fine with your adapter if it's tight. I remember that the SR11 shoe had a "play" (the shoe itself had that play, didn';t matter how tight I screwed the adapter on it. and that most likely caused the shorts. Just make sure that the adapter sits tight with no "play" and you should be just fine. After all a word of caution may help to prevent troubles. Just be careful, that's all.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I was pointing out that no matter how critical you or I may feel the remote function is, I'd venture that 90%+ of cameras sold NEVER see a wired remote - maybe the wireless one, but that's enough for most people - I've even used it as a kludge in a pinch. There's just not a lot of money there... despite what you or I might think! And if there is, a Chinese knockoff will hit the market within 60-90 days... especially with accessories!

And while I'm glad to hear that the cheap Vivitar remote works well (will have to look it up, thanks!). as you've discovered the LANC implementation can be pretty "varied". This has been my experience as well. It's up to us end users to sort out what works and what doesn't, and there's not a lot of options, either OEM or aftermarket! Find one that works for you with your rig, and go with it!

The camcorder market has already experienced (along with the point and shoot market niche) a MASSIVE reduction in sales, and it's not getting better. This means where 10 years ago a manufacturer could afford R&D, engineering, tooling and manufacture costs, and have a decent chance of selling enough units to make that sunk cost back and a profit. Now? Not so much.

You keep ascribing some "plot" to the manufacturers that is related (I guess) to supposedly raking in huge profits through market/feature manipulation... I'd argue they are just struggling to survive...


There's zero "play" in the foot the way I modded it, it clamps VERY tight to the metal frame, which should be attached to the camera metal subframe in a typical Sony. I had some concern about shorts, but it turns out that the contacts are ever so slightly recessed below the molded plastic, and once you notch/key the part of the foot that goes into the front (contact area) of the socket AND thin it out enough to clear the molded area, nothing to worry about! You end up with a lot of clamp surface once that "tongue" is machined to fit.

We probably should move back to the AX100 thread for further discussion, I think you'll find the AX100 to be a good video camera, it does take a little to get the most out of, so don't panic if you hit some bumps, don't be surprised, I expect early FZ1000 adopters will discover some "fun" with 4K too...

But it's worth it!

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Not excusing Panasonic here, but I wonder if the 30 minute limitation was a deliberate attempt to satisfy the requirements of the EU market, where cameras that can record more than 30 minutes are classed as camcorders and higher taxes are levied on the camera as a result.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Although the quoted and highlighted part of your post is something that could probably be discussed in another thread, I'd like to weigh in and offer my opinion on what is happening here. Camcorder sales are dropping for a number of reasons:

1) There are too many camcorders on the market, with each manufacturer offering umpteen different 'flavours'. Digital SLRs and other still cameras with video recording capabilities also militate against greater camcorder sales because they partially cannibalize the market for camcorders.

2) Most people who would normally buy a cheap, low-end camcorder are taking the 'good enough' route and shooting their videos with iPads, iPhones and Android devices with similar capabilities. Sure, this reinforces the phenomenon of crap videos you see on Youtube, but most consumers really don't know how to use their camcorders properly, and they don't care to learn. They just want something that lets them capture a moment on the fly. Most are also not willing to absorb the extra expense and hassle of buying yet another device just to get arguably better sound and picture quality.

3) Consumers are broke, and with the way the global economy is going, people are becoming progressively less able to spend on anything but necessities. This means they are going to be keeping their existing camcorders longer, if they have one.

I think part of the overall problem too, is that the market is jaded with the feature-itis the manufacturers are coming out with all the time in an effort to keep sales stoked up. In other
words, they perceive it as gimmick after gimmick with little real value loaded into the transaction.

Right now, I think 4K is still somewhat of a gimmick in the camcorder arena, since most people don't have TV sets that can properly reproduce 4K video. I've seen what 4K looks like on a 4K TV, and it is simply stunning, provided that you have excellent-quality source material to display. The average highly compressed cable TV signal is going to look like crap on such a TV set, yet this is what most consumers have to work with. 4K has potential, and it's what 1080p HD video should have been, but broadcasters weren't willing to invest the money needed to upgrade their infrastructure properly so that they could broadcast a real 1080p signal. If they weren't willing to make that kind of investment in 1080p, what makes anyone think they will invest in 4K?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I don't think it's so much that they don't care, but that they use what they have with them. I have an AX100 that I use for my websites business, but the reality is that outside of business use I never use it, and I exclusively use my phone to take videos and pictures. Does the quality look as good? Definitely not. However my Nokia 1520 is with me 100% of the time and is always there to video a memorable situation, whereas my AX100 never is. Simple as that, hence why even though the quality isn't as good, personally I find that large camcorders are slowly becoming useless for personal use because they are not likely to be around when the moment to record strikes whereas someones phone always is. Uber quality video recording is useless if the device isn't with me, and it simply never is.


I don't think this matters as much anymore. Maybe my case is different for everyone else, but by and large most people I know show off their pictures and videos on their ultrabooks, tablets and phones. I don't know of anyone, family or friend, that says 'hey check out this video' and has everyone sit around the family tv. That just never happens in my world. Ultrabooks, tablets, etc, all have had > 1080p resolution for a long time now and that's what gets used to show people videos and pictures. Incidentally that's also why I switched to filming entirely in 4k because I think it's actually very important and people are switching to it more rapidly than some realize because some keep using the traditional tv as the basline metric, which I don't feel is the correct way to look at it anymore. Heck the analytics on my websites which get millions of hits a year show that 28% of my users access my websites with a tablet or a phone. Not a Roku, game console, or some other device hooked to a tv, but a tablet or phone. That's quite amazing given that it was 0% not all that long ago, things are shifting fast.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Consider ordering the camera from Omega Broadcast. Click below:


Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ1000K

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Steve, even if you don't have a 4K monitor or UHD TV, the down rez 'd 4K> HD looks far better than any HD camera you're likely to use.

So, it's far from a 'gimmick' even for those with only an HD display. Additionally, the gorgeous 4K can be archived for future use whenever you get a 4K display.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

which brings up the archiving of 4k issue
Man I have about 20tb of hd and a similar amount of SD stored on dvd
What in heaven's name will we use to hold onto 4k?
I read Sony and Panasonic are working on enormous capacity Blu-Ray bring em on and quick

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I use a combination of 50gb blurays and 2tb hdd's. After a shoot I burn the footage to a 50gb bluray, and copy it to two different 2tb hdd's. I store the blurays and one of the hdd's at one bank, and the other hdd at another bank. Once that 2tb hdd is full I get another set of two, rinse and repeat. I use portable usb 3.0 hdd's that don't need external power and are very small. That's also why I love that the AX100 records at 60mbps with a pretty good codec, it makes archiving much easier than 240mbps prores and the like. At 100mbps the FZ1000 will take more space, but it's still doable. I've been managing my archives this way for many years now, it's relatively cheap and easy to do and lets me sleep at night knowing my stuff is archived at two separate location on two separate storage types, optical and magnetic.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Shoot less and more selectively. Save only whatever 4K turns out good enough to have value at that resolution. Down-convert the rest.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

For "cinema' cameraman that will work however when filming 3 day a figureskating competition or a bunch of 3 hour convocation videos there is no discretionary shooting. You must get it all and no mistakes or retakes. Consequently archiving a single competition which might have involved 100gb shot at 1440x1082i 16bitrate will now be near tb or more so it adds up over the years.
(note to self: must try to resell some of that old footage as the participants or their kin might be re-interested in footage of themselves from 10yrs ago)

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

The Seiki 39 arrived this morning a full 3 weeks ahead of the fz1000 ...going to make the wait even harder
Say ...did anyone notice the 300 dollar price drop on the other cam. Makes you wonder if they might have been gouging just a bit.. Watch that backlash if I know anything about public relations,

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Yeah, I noticed the price drop too when I visited the B&H website - the Sony RX10 is now selling for $999 (about $1250 in Canadian dollars at current exchange rates).

Gouging? Sony always gouge whenever they can get away with it. It looks like Canadian retailers haven't got wind of the Panasonic FZ1000 yet, because they're still asking $1300 to $1500 for it ($1100 to $1300 USD). Or they're just playing dumb. Canadian retailers are particularly notorious for gouging consumers, because they demand at least half again what stuff sells for in the US, even when the dollar is trading at par.

The RZ10 looks like a fantastic camera, but what happens if you need a telephoto length longer than 200mm? And you can't shoot any wider than 24mm because the lens is fixed.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Steve, Sony does not have a lock on 'price gouging'. If you're equating price gouging with the price that early adopters pay, well, nobody is forcing anyone to buy products upon their initial release.

Panasonic, Canon, all of them do the same thing. There's nothing unique about Sony's approach.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

4k I calculate 52 minutes on a 64gb card but i'm unsure
Hoping Panasonic will surprise me by releasing the camera earlier than previously projected lol

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I can record 1 hour and 25 minutes of 100mbs 4K onto a 64gb card on my gh4, weird thing is though the camera only uses 49gb of the card and then says it's full while according to windows explorer there is still 10gb available.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

just a wild guess but that 10gb might be the pagefile backup area from which recovery is possible
but I have no idea really

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

ETA end of the month. Do you have a pre-order in?

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-FZ1000K

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Estimated Ship Date: 1 - 3 business days
As found on the Panasonic/Shop page for this camera.
Maybe should have pre-ordered there instead of NYC. I just thought Panasonic would take care of their dealers first. my bad

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

has anyone seen if there are separate pal/ntsc versions, or that it's switchable in camera?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Has anyone done a detailed comparison between Panasonic Lumix GH4 + 14-140/4-5,8 lens and FZ1000? Is the price difference justified (I am not bothered by the missing telephoto range)?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Beside the fact that both can do 4k internally they are 2 different camera's, in 4K mode the fz1000 crops considerable starting at 37mm I think which is not wide at all and practically not usable for many. It would be a great camera for a more telephoto range but it still remains to be seen how the low light capability of this camera is.
The lens you are refering to I have as well and while it's a great allround lens I find it unusable inside when it gets too dark, but the advantage of a GH4 is that you can put on a lens that can cope under these circumstances while with the fz1000 you are stuck with what the lens offers you.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Regarding the 30 minute recording limit: Once the camera stops recording at the 30 minute mark, how long is the wait before you can start recording again? Is it a matter of waiting for the camera to cool down?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Can't say for sure as I don't have one yet but other cameras you might lose a second or two but that's all

4K Crop factor LUMIX FZ1000
 

Been mulling over the implications of the less than ideal wide end (37mm) of the Leica lens when in 4K mode on the fz1000 and imagining some shots that I typically need.

I came across this statement from Red Cameras in "Quotes" below and I'm beginning to understand now that what I first thought was a handicap may in fact assist in acquiring crisp video in 4K mode

"A higher crop factor means a given lens will appear as if it were a longer focal length, and at the same subject magnification, that lens will also have more depth of field. "

In the run and gun world where re-takes don't happen, a sufficiently deep depth of field is essential because most anything other than an out of focus issue can be adjusted in post.

am I right?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Everything is relative, Bruce. Even if you have a slightly greater DOF, what is that relative to? Is it relative to this same camera if the entire sensor was scanned? If you take a competitor like the AX100, having enough DOF will rarely be an issue and I see little advantage for the Panasonic in those terms.

However for those times when you want a shallower DOF (and those do occur), it will be more difficult with the Panasonic as opposed to the Sony.

Frankly, I think Sony's approach to scanning the entire sensor has proved very successful in both the AX100 and the RX10. I think there are always sacrifices made when only a portion of the sensor is used.

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Ken I'm really not trying to prove anything but I did invite comment
just musings

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

I did expect some more shallow dof on the ax100 but it ramps quickly to f4 once you start to zoom in, my rx10 performs much better in that respect and I prefer using that camera for talking heads that are shot from a distance. In terms of focussing I prefer the ax100 again because I have had 2 weddings already where I was slightly of with the rx10 on focus and didn't notice that during recording. The fz1000 should have that advantage as well of having a deeper dof?

Re: Panasonic LUMIX FZ1000 announced with 4K recording
 

Don't get me wrong Bruce, I wasn't trying to pit one camera against the other. I was just trying to show the pros & cons of both approaches (full sensor readout vs partial)