Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi folks,

I've got a UX90 and a UX180 in hand and am neck deep in trying to learn everything I can about 'em. If you have questions about these new cameras, post 'em here and I'll do what I can to answer...

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

I'd be curious to know if both or either of them are capable of burning in a time/date stamp into the image the way the dvx200 is.

Thanks

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry,

Thanks for the offer. I am interested in the Infrared capabilities of the UX 180. The manufacturer's tradition has been to automatically set the exposure to the maximum possible by increasing the gain, setting the aperture to full and the exposure to the longest possible and finally adding a green cast. The reason for doing this was to make it impossible to use the capability in day light as some fabrics allow infrared to pass thus revealing what is below clothing. All this is obviously far from ideal if you need full camera control for natural history work. So my question is, can you control the exposure when the camera is set up for infrared?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry, how's the low light of ux180? I'm interested to know how will it perform compared to my Sony x70.

If I use both ux180 and x70, what's the best picture profile to match these 2. Thank you!

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Yes, they both can. The cameras' operating systems are of the same generation as the DVX200, so all the menus are same or similar and they have many or most of the same functions. The UX180 has most of the things the DVX200 has. The UX90 doesn't have all those, but it costs a lot less so that's to be expected.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

The UX180 removes the infrared filter from the optical path when you engage IR mode. But it then goes into 100% full auto exposure -- auto gain, auto shutter, auto iris. You can't set any of those in manual.

One difference from the DVX200 is that you can choose the tint, you can choose whether it shades the image in green or white.

(and I know you didn't ask, but just for completeness, the UX90 doesn't have the infrared capability).

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

I don't have any experience with the Sony X70 so I can't make a direct comparison. In my testing, I'd peg the ISO of the UX180 at about 450. It's got big pixels and a nice clean image through the early stages of the gain spectrum; you can go to 12dB without much impact on the image. Of course if you go all the way to 36dB of gain it's a veritable snowstorm, but moderate usage of the gain is really clean. It's on par with the DVX200 for low light usage, if you're familiar with that.

I just looked up the X70's ISO and found this site (Sony X70 ISO/dB tests – TACTICALVIDEOWORKS) which set out to test it, and they determined it was 125 ISO. The native ISO on the UX180 is about 450, so -- if you put about 10 or 11dB of gain on your X70, that will show you what the native brightness of the UX180 would be at 0dB (assuming, of course, that you use the same shutter and aperture on both).

Having no experience with the X70 I couldn't say, although generally scene file 1 is the place to start since it's a generally neutral Rec 709 image. However, with the UX180 you have extensive control over the gamma and the color; you can paint it to look pretty much exactly how you want. I have no doubt that with some time, a professional color chart, and a waveform & vectorscope, you (or someone) could get the UX180 to deliver a really good match to an x70 or any other camera within its price range.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Thanks Barry,
I am still a little unclear by what you mean by ‘full auto’ in this instance. As I said it has been common practice in cameras with Infrared capabilities to automatically set the gain to its highest, the aperture to its widest and the shutter to its longest leaving the user to adjust the lighting to suit. However I would like to think that ‘full auto’ means the camera is selecting a suitable combination of gain, iris and shutter speed to best match the lighting. I would appreciate any further comments. A simple test would be to try the Infrared setting in daylight – if the image is burnt out I will have my answer..

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

You are correct. The system says "auto" for all the functions, but in daylight the image is quite burnt-out even with a 1/64 ND filter setting, and the iris won't move from wide open.

It's possible you could use it in daylight by using a variable ND in front of the lens as your means of controlling exposure perhaps.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry, does the UX90/180 allow simultaneous 4K recording, LCD monitoring, and HDMI or SDI output? This has been an issue with many (all?) of the entry-level Sony cameras. Looking at a few of these for multi-camera streaming purposes.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

So Barry, what kinds of exposure monitoring is there on the two cameras: waveform/vectorscope, zebras ( one or two sets)? How accurate is the focus in red function? I understand that the zoom focus function doesn't work when you are recording 4K, can you output to an external monitor in 4K and still keep the image on the viewfinder when recording?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

The UX90 doesn't have the Cinema 4K mode, it has UHD 4K - 3840 x 2160 at 23.98 and 29.97 fps. The UX90 doesn't have SDI output, it has HDMI (and RCA composite yellow/red/white jacks)

The UX180 has Cinema 4K (4096 x 2160 @ 24.00 fps) as well as UHD 3840 x 2160 at 23.98, 25, 29.97, 50.00, and 59.94 fps. The UX180 has HDMI and SDI output (and a cable socket for yellow/red/white).

The UX90 offers UHD recording, LCD or EVF output and full-res HDMI output.

The UX180 offers UHD or 4K recording, LCD or EVF output, and full-res HDMI output at Cinema 4K or UHD 23.98/25.00/29.97. In addition to the internal recording, you can have it simultaneously record a 1080p low-bitrate version (either 50 mbps or 8 mbps) on the memory card in the second card slot.

When in UHD 50.00 or 59.94, the UX180 supports internal recording and LCD or EVF output. But it can't support a full-res HDMI feed while simultaneously recording internally, so it outputs a 1080 signal during recording. It outputs a full-res UHD 50.00 or 59.94 HDMI output, but it can't do both that output and internal recording simultaneously, so it outputs FHD 1080p during recording, and when recording stops it reverts to full-res UHD output.

The UX180 offers FHD recording at up to 1080/60p with LCD or EVF live and simultaneous full-res HDMI or SDI output. The SDI is a 3G-SDI port so it only accomodates HD signals.

Neither camera lets you use the LCD and the EVF simultaneously at all, you always have to choose which one you'll use (the UX180 has an auto-sensing switch in the viewfinder to automatically switch between them).

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Both cameras have two levels of zebras, and the zebras can be continuous or momentary (only showing up for a few seconds after you press the zebra button).
Both have the "marker", a little box that shows up in the center of the screen accompanied by a % readout of the brightness in the box (pure white shows as 99%, black shows as 0%, etc).
Both have the "Area Y Get" function, which is similar to the marker; you can point to an area on the screen that you want to know the brightness of, and it'll report the brightness within the frame displayed on the screen (and you can set three different sizes for that frame, so it can be a generous sampling of area or a tight pinpoint-ish section to sample).

The UX90 doesn't have the waveform or vectorscope, it has a histogram.
The UX180 doesn't have a histogram, but it does have the waveform and vectorscope.

The focus in red function is programmable, you can determine the color and the level of peaking to display, in a range of (-7) to (+7). -7 effectively turns the colored peaking off. -6 is the very most stringent level - something would have to be in pinpoint sharp focus to trigger -6 at all. On the other hand, +7 is extremely generous, your focus could be "in the ballpark" and the peaking would still show it as red.

So its accuracy is up to you - you can be super-picky and have it only register the sharpest details (like focusing on the pinstripes of someone's pinstriped shirt) and risk that you may never see it show up under other circumstances (like, maybe it would only show up on the tip of someone's glasses, but nothing else on their face would be contrasty enough to trigger it). Or, you can go with a more run 'n' gun approach, letting it trigger in more generous circumstances. That choice is yours.

Yes, on the UX90.

Yes-ish, on the UX180. If you're recording 4K or UHD 24/25/30, then yes.
If you're recording UHD/50 or UHD/60, then the system can't sustain internal recording combined with LCD/EVF combined with full-res output, so it drops the HDMI output to 1080p for the duration of recording. As soon as recording is completed, it goes back to UHD output. If you're using SDI output instead of HDMI, you'd never even notice (since the SDI output is always 1080, there's no change necessary when going from standby to recording).

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Thanks again Barry,

The Infrared answer was what I expected but not what I wanted. I guess I will continue using a rather cumbersome 'Orion' surveillance camera set-up for my IR interest.

The Panasonic literature mentions a wired remote for the UX180 that will be 'commercially available'. I assume this will will not be made by Panasonic. Do you have any information on this item?

Thanks
Alastair.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry, thanks for all the valuable inputs. In a short summary, what do you think are the main cons of ux180? We've seen quite a few good features and it sure look impressive but I'm interested to know the cons compared to its competitors.

There's a new sizzle reel of UX180 by panasonic at this link

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

I experimented with a variable ND filter. It works, I can get proper exposure, but it's been rainy and overcast here so I don't know what it would look like in full sunlight. I would imagine adding something like an ND 1.2 would get it in the ballpark.

The UX cameras are backwards-compatible with wired remote controls that have been made since at least 2003. Any remote that works for a DVX100, HVX200, HMC150, HPX170, HPX250, AC130, AC160, DVX200, etc., will also work with the UX90 and UX180. They're made by many companies.

In addition to wired remotes, you can also use a USB wi-fi dongle and control the camera remotely through an iPad app, which gives you a lot more control than the wired remote does.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Well, I don't know the details of all the competitors so I don't know necessarily what they offer and what they're lacking, and what the UX180 has that they don't, or what it lacks that they have.

What I have found in watching and using these handheld cameras over the last 14 years is that they're all built to a certain price point, and each manufacturer crams in what they can and what they think the user will value most, as much as they can fit under the price cap. But you'll never get it all. If you want it all, you've got to spend more.

I find it a very well-rounded, robust camera with an extremely usable combination of features. But I know that one of the things people are going to complain about is that it doesn't have any provision for 10-bit; it records 8-bit 4:2:0 and it outputs 8-bit 4:2:2. It doesn't have raw output, it doesn't have 10-bit, and it doesn't have a logarithmic encoding option like VLOG. If you need 10-bit output and log, you can get that with the more-expensive DVX200, etc.

There are always things that you'll find that are limitations, the question is whether they'll limit your work. New Sonys, for example, apparently don't allow you to record internally and simultaneously output a video signal to both the LCD and also an external monitor (as discussed previously in this thread). Is that a problem? Not if you don't use an external monitor (or recorder) it isn't; if you're using the camera handheld and never use the SDI or HDMI live, then that'd be no problem at all. But for someone who uses the external monitor, it could be a dealbreaker, rendering the camera unusable for them. So that's the thing -- there's going to be limitations, you just have to determine if they'd limit your ability to work. If you absolutely have to have 10-bit internal, then you can cross the UX cameras off your list, as they don't have that. But do you absolutely have to have 10-bit internal? If you do, you're pretty much out of luck in terms of video cameras, I don't think any conventional video cameras record 10-bit UHD, do they?

The direct competitor that I see for the UX180 is the Sony Z150; they both have a 1" sensor and are priced around $3600. They seem reasonably similar; they both record 100mbps UHD, etc. The big differences I see are that the UX180 has a 20x zoom, the Z150 has a 12x; the UX180 supports UHD at 24, 25, 30, 50 & 59.94 fps, the Z150 does 24/25/30 but doesn't support 50 or 60. And the Z150 supports 10-bit HD recording/8-bit UHD; the UX180 is 8-bit for both HD and UHD.

I don't know how to compare them beyond that. Does the Z150 have the limitation on HDMI output while recording and using the LCD? I don't know. There are some things that will or won't affect you, that may or may not be an issue. For example, the UX180 supports video out onscreen display for HD, but not when recording UHD. Is that a serious limitation? I had one guy on DVXUser say that was a dealbreaker for him for the DVX200. I've used the DVX200 for a year and a half and I don't think I've ever even noticed that the text overlays aren't available in UHD, so it's a non-issue for me.

I don't think there's much wrong with the UX180, I think it's a lot of camera for the money and that it can do a lot of jobs. To me, it's more of a "DVX200" than the actual DVX200 is; the DVX100 was legendary as the do-all, do-everything camera, and the UX180 seems like the spiritual successor to that. The DVX200 was a bit too big and too heavy for long handheld days; I find it more at home on a tripod. It can be used handheld, but that's not where it shines. On the other hand, the UX180 gives more zoom range, a wider wide angle, a longer telephoto, and does it in a package that's two pounds less(!), so for all-day handheld work I'd say it's the much better choice. But the DVX200 has a sensor that's twice as big, and 10-bit output, and VLOG-L encoding -- so if you're making films, it's the better choice, even in spite of the UX180's particular advantages.

If you need an S35 sensor and internal ProRes or raw recording, the UX180 isn't for you. If you need a reasonably compact, lightweight camera with a big sensor (twice the size of a 2/3" sensor) and an incredibly useful zoom range (24mm wide, 480mm telephoto equivalents) with outstanding image stabilization, and reasonably small file sizes on inexpensive commodity media, then the UX180 might be ideal. But nothing's perfect, and all these cameras are built to fit under a certain price threshold, and there's only so much you can cram in a camera before it becomes too expensive. The UX90 is really remarkable for its price, I think, but it's missing a lot of features from the UX180. Then again, the UX90 costs almost half what a UX180 does. I think that if you've got the money to spend, you'd be best served with getting the UX180 over the UX90 as you really do get a lot more for your money. But that argument extends to all price brackets; if you can afford a $13,000 Sony FS7-II with its new zoom lens, you're going to get a lot more camera than the UX180 (as you should, for 3x the price). Even then, it's difficult to say that would be "better" because it depends on what you're doing with it; a UX180 would still likely be a better handheld/lightweight camera... and a GoPro would be a better helmet camera than both of 'em. :)

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry, yes you're right. Ultimately when buying any new camera, it bores down to what feature you are want for your kind of project. People may complain about UX180 not doing internal recording at 10 bits 422 but that's not an issue to me because that will bump up the file size and I do not intend to use to do heavy color grading nor green screen. Keeping the image as good as possible with low file size is important. V-log is also not important for events shooting. 1" sensor is also perfect to have deep DOF for live event as you do not want to keep on hunting for critical focus. UX180 ticks a lot of boxes in my buying list (4k, pal/ntsc system, UHD 50p/60p, 20X zoom, SDI out, SD cards instead of P2). I guess my only concern is the low light capability.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Barry, any idea on how well the UX90 and UX180 would match up in a multi am setup? I like to use UHD as my main angle for post zooming and then have the 2 close up cams work in HD. The UX90 sensor crop (and resulting sensitivity) is what worries me the most. But money talks and I think having the UX90s shoot in full-sensor HD would be perfectly fine as long as they're close to the same look. Thanks for your thoughts.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

The UX180 is about 500 ISO, in terms of sensitivity. It has a "HIGH SENS" mode that gives it effectively double the sensitivity at about the same level of grain, so -- in low light scenarios, it's effectively about 1000 ISO.

I don't know how that compares to what you're used to? It's on par with the DVX200, if that helps.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

You can make them look practically identical. You would have to match the UX180 to the UX90's look, because the UX180 has a lot more image control options, but in terms of gamma and color you could make them look extremely, extremely similar. You'd have to spend a little time in the UX180's menus to paint it to line up with the UX90, but if you did so, you'd probably achieve excellent matching results.

In addition, they both have a "STILL LIKE" scene file, default scene file 4, that is designed to match the look of the GH4 in "Standard" profile. I haven't put both of those on the scope to see how closely they've accomplished it, but I would wager that they would look pretty comparable out of the box when both were set to that scene file.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

A couple more quick questions: is there a clear scan function in the UX180 and how many buttons can be customized and with which functions?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

If by "clear scan" you mean the ability to set the shutter speed in tiny increments, then yes, the UX180 does have that; Panasonic calls it "Synchro Scan". The UX90 doesn't have that.

As for customizable buttons, Panasonic calls them "user buttons". There are 13 physical buttons that can be customized, and four "virtual" buttons (they show up on the LCD touch screen when you touch it). There are 45 different functions that you can assign to those buttons. Too many for me to try to list here and describe; you'd be best served to download the owner's manual and see them (starting on page 87). Owner's manual is available at http://pro-av.panasonic.net/manual/p...P1161ZA)_E.pdf

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Barry, how's the iZoom 30X performance in your opinion? Sony has this clear image zoom equivalent which double the zoom reach but I do notice image quality drop as you approach the longer end of it especially under low light. Not sure how's ux180 performance?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

The UX180's iZoom is excellent, but do note that it only goes to 1.5x (i.e., it takes the 20x optical zoom to equivalent 30x).

It only functions in HD, there is no iZoom in UHD or 4K.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

I noticed that with the DVX200 that the super slow mode was not as crisp as normal footage. is this the case with this camera well. Is there a loss of resolution or have they changed that function at this level of camera?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Can you set exposure compensation in these cameras? For example theatrical performance the background is often black. An unmanned camera filming the entire stage set to auto will over expose the actors unless you can set an exp compensation.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

It is the same on the UX180.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Yes, there is a BACKLIGHT and a SPOTLIGHT mode for automatic exposure; in addition you can customize the level of overexposure or underexposure that you want the system to do in the AUTO IRIS LEVEL function.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Thanks. Is exposure compensation tied only to the iris and not the gain? For example in black background scenario camera set to auto iris and auto gain. I would turn on Spotlight and select the appropriate level. So what is the camera going to do with the gain. Asked more bluntly does AUTO IRIS LEVEL only compensate the iris while SPOTLIGHT/BACKLIGHT compensates anything set to auto? Sorry don't mean to be overly technical. The implementation seems not as straight forward as my current camera right or left joy stick adjusts exposure -6 to +6 or like in GH4 there's a compensation dial.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

The exposure compensation is taken into account by the iris and, if you've enabled them, the auto shutter and/or the auto gain. It's named after AUTO IRIS, but in fact it will use the shutter and/or AGC if necessary and if you've allowed it. It is difficult to know whether it's using auto gain because the camera doesn't report what gain setting it's at when it's in auto mode (i.e., when in auto it only says "AGC"), but I set it to go to extreme overexposure and there was definitely a difference when I used manual gain and when I let it use auto gain, so -- it uses all three systems.

The camera takes into account issues such as diffraction; at this pixel size the optimum small aperture is F/5.6; any smaller than that and the influence of diffraction will start to be seen, so it will prefer to keep the aperture at 5.6 or more open whenever possible. If you have the auto shutter on, and you tell it the A. IRIS LEVEL to expose for a very dark image (the range is -50 to +50, I tested at -50) then it will stop the lens down until it hits 5.6, and then it will start adjusting the shutter speed instead. If you want it to not use the shutter speed and to only affect the iris, then you can put it in manual shutter mode.

On the opposite end of the scale, the auto shutter likes to hold at 1/60 as its slowest speed whenever possible. If you want to make the scene very bright, it'll add auto gain before it resorts to lowering the shutter speed. But if it has already opened the iris fully and cranked in the max amount of gain you allow it to and it still can't reach your desired level of brightness, then it will drop the shutter speed to 1/30 (or 1/24 for 24p).

All these factors (auto iris, auto shutter speed, slow auto shutter speed, and auto gain) are within your control as to whether they happen or not. The system will use whatever combination of tools you've given it, to try to hit your exposure target.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Thanks Barry for your detailed explanation.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Barry, thanks for your help I ended up getting the UX90. I'm already contemplating adding wireless but had some questions:
1. I need to buy the usb wifi adapter that plugs into the camera. I see on Panasonic's site there is AJ-WM50p and an older 30 module. Is there a performance difference? I assume you can't plug any wireless adapter or will any work?

2. Do I need a wireless router to make my own network to make this work? If so does it matter what router I get?

3. I would then be using my droid phone or ipad. Where do I get the software. Is it free? Does it allow me to control and view whats being recorded?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

I don't have all the answers on the wireless yet, but will be experimenting with it soon. As far as I know there are three adapters that will work, the Panasonic WM50 and WM30 series and the original Asus N53 I think.

One thing I can answer is that the app is only available for the iPad. It's available free on the App store, called Panasonic AG ROP.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi Pete, I got the WM50 with the UX90 and it works pretty much as expected. I connected directly to the camera via iPad app. The setup was a little strange, but the real "trick" was using the default password found in the manual when setting up the network. It's also a little odd that you need to do an extra step of setting the IP under the AG ROP settings in the iPad preferences. I'd be happy to walk you through. It was a little frustrating at first. There's no video preview in the app (as far as I know) so you'll need a monitor attached when in a remote position.

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

It is a pity that they do not use the app available for the Panasonic consumer still cameras that is very comprehensive. Controls almost everything and has preview with touch focus etc. One of the main features for me is touch focus etc and one looses this with the app. The reason that touch focus is important is that focusing UHD is very, very critical as I found with my FDR-AX1. You need an external monitor as 3" is not good enough to tell and I think touch focus will be a lot more accurate. Will wait and see what the GH5 spec are as that will no doubt operate with the more comprehensive still app and have good UHD performance too.

Will decide what to get in the new year but they are all interesting cameras and HC-X!/UX180 are better than the NX5U and FDR-AX1 I now have.

Ron Evans

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Hi
It looks like the new firmware is available
[PROVIDEO ASSET SUPPORT SYSTEM]Top Page
Did anyone try SD card of 256GB?
Regards

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Without any video preview it's not as useful as I hoped for. I'd have setup some way to wirelessly stream the video to monitor it in theater remote setup.

Btw I assume you need a wireless router too. The ipad doesn't connect to the dongle directly?

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Yes, there is a new firmware update for the UX180 and also one for the UX90.

I haven't tried a 256GB card but I've heard from others that they work on both the DVX200 and the UX cameras. I can't verify that though; the biggest card I have is 128gb (which works fine of course).

Re: Panasonic UX90 & UX180 Q&A
 

Tnx Barry
Regards