Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Yeah actually my friend said he couldn't stand the acting in the movie and it ruined it for him and I myself never thought the acting was that great. However, the movie was a cult classic, so it must have had something in it, that caused the audience to overlook the acting?

But there is also The Battle of Algiers, where the acting I didn't think was that good, accept for the one actor who is a real actor... but that movie also became a huge hit, inspite of such mediocre or less acting.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

I don't know about Algiers, haven't seen it, but again, in Rodriguez's book he talks about how despite his movie being a scrappy low budget affair, it blew anything Spanish language distributors had seen at that time out of the water especially given the budget, cause THOSE movies were even crappier. And then went on to festival success for whatever reason. But remember, that was also early or mid 90s. The standard's kinda higher now.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh okay. So I guess in this day and age, I really have to sell a movie I make on the acting and drama, because there isn't really much to sell it on otherwise?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

The awards ceremonies when we had them always had categories for best new actor/actress, so you'd get somebody green but capable do a brilliant job. You can have terrible actors who have worked solidly for years out acted by younger people with no formal training. Some people can act in real life. The blaggers. Those people who go to an interview and act the part of the brilliant talented person with bags of skill and experience. They get the job because they have acting ability. The skilled, experienced and probably talented failed interviewee lost their job because they couldn't act! The story is everything. Was Arnold Schwarzenegger ever a brilliant actor? No. How about Anthony Hopkins? Some are obvious, some are not. Hugh Lawrie is one of the really good word who nobody notices. He played for us Brits, a comedy character in Black Adder, yet many Americans don't even know he's British. I just discovered Brigit Jones is not English. Clearly, she's a good actress!

Are you in a position to hire people? This involves money. You never seem to have any?

Months ago I suggested doing a skills audit. You avoided it. You still blast on with your projects with no thought as to what you do best, and you are always surprised when they go wrong.

At some point in your life you will look back and review your track record before you waste huge amounts of money, time and lost happiness.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

He said months ago that he DID do the skills audit and it said he was good at planning.

As for Bridget Jones I’m gonna have to go against you there. From what I recall at the time many people hated Renee Zellweger in that movie/that casting decision. Maybe I’m wrong and it was just the loud, vocal, stupid minority.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

If the English accept Renee Zellweger as Bridget Jones and they do a series of films with her in the part. I suspect it's a loud, vocal, stupid minority.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh Brian - my wife watches these movies almost on repeat. You've cut me to the quick! Next you'll be telling me that the bearer in it Ain't 'alf Hot Mum wasn't Indian and was really English?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

LOL I wasn't referring to the English in this regard. I can accept Renee Zellweger in that part, just as her being Roxie Hart in Chicago, although I haven't watched all of Bridget Jones.

There is a debate on the whole issue of casting people who aren't the same as their actors, sometimes it's sensible and other respects not so sensible.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh okay. Well is there anything to sell a movie on, other than the acting, if it's microbudget?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

If it's got an interesting story, that's well told in an interesting way or the subject matter has adherents to a genre, will sell a movie. However, most microbudget films will never get sold, the marketing will cost more than making the film

You can get porn for free on the internet, so is less likely these days for sales, unless you know the market

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Ryan - you are not really getting this, are you?

The question was about overthinking - which clearly, as demonstrated, you do.

If you want to make people watch your shorts, then you need to go back to basics.
1. A good story - one that maximises the desire to watch it.
2. Realism - locations and acting really.
3. Technical competence - what does it look and sound like? How is the story enhanced by what people see and are able to hear.

You can have a few weak areas if they are not critical to enjoyment. People can click away, and do. I'll watch the first five minutes and if I'm not into it by then, I'll watch smething else. I HATE watching movies - I just find most modern ones less than gripping. I watched one because I was made to the other day. The story started to wash over me, I started to find faults, I noticed stuff should not have and I hated it. Yet I watched an old Tom Clancy movie and as I had read the book twenty years ago, I spotted plot errors, some truly dodgy acting alongside great acting and some poor SFX and yet I thorougly enjoyed the movie. The 'whole' worked. It kept me the critical first few minutes and it worked.

Did you notice you also did the typical Ryan thing of ignoring 99% of a post and responding as if the comments were simply not there. They said things you just do NOT wish to address, so you ignored them - and you said your usual "Oh OK" - which by now we all know means you just ignore the questions. You then generate a response that has no link at all?

Microbudget means compromise, it does not mean bad always - but if you write a movie with hard to find locations, acting difficulty that shows up errors, and a difficult content, are you surprised it goes wrong?

How about producing a script that is within your actor's skill level. Set in a location you have 100% control over and has a story the actors might actually enjoy?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh I apologize, I didn't mean to not adress all the questions.

So one thing I didn't answer before, was if I have money to hire actors. Well it depends. I have money which I was saving up for a much bigger project so I can hire actors and other crew for that one, just not other ones.

As for getting a location with 100 percent control, I do not own any of locations really, so I do not have 100 percent control, but hopefully, I can get more as much control as I can.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Why not just do it properly and document the various deals you do. It sounds like you say "can I shoot my movie at your stcap yard?" The response is "yes fine" . Three weeks later, unannounced you turn up with loads of people and stop their work dead. They get fed up after a few hours not realising you want exclusive and free use of their locations and they order you off the site.

I have never, ever lost a location like this. I have, however, stopped people who have taken liberties with me. Can we shoot an I view on stage tomorrow before the show? I say yes to the BBC and they turn up late when the audience is coming in and want things moved and even spoil the start of the show by just wandering around on the empty stage till I blow my top and throw them out.

Which scenario sounds familiar?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

The first one sounds familiar because I have never shown up late to a shoot, and never interrupted a show or anything.

Mostly it was friends I asked. I did document the deal once with someone I didn't know but later, they didn't care about the fact that it was documented and steal needed me out of there much sooner for some reason. But I can still document them.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

I'm not sure you understand. Even with freebies, people need to know what is needed and what they are saying yes to. Often it's awkward to have to say "thanks for letting me do this, but I must have access from 8am, and will need somebody there who knows where the switches are. I also need parking for two cars. Oh - will there be toilets available? We plan to use a little smoke - will this cause any problems with smoke alarms? It's very important we can work without any of your people accidentally walking through where we are shooting? is it OK to put a no entry sign on the door? Sorry to ask so many questions but it's cost us an awful lot to get everyone here for the shoot and we don't want to risk not getting done - it's so kind of you to let us use the building and we really appreciate it"

Two things happen - they say OK, or they warn you of the fire alarm practice at 10am, or that there is only space for one car, or that the sign is OK, but remember it is a fire exit so can't be locked. The smoke request might worry them, but best to know before the fire engines arrive.

This is what I mean by document

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

This is one step up from guerilla filming. These things are bound to happen with free locations. I've worked for small businesses and things come up all the time. If important client calls, I would have kicked you out.

You seem to be one of those types of people who are takers, who's always in need of help or wants something for free. In addition you don't appear to be aware of other peoples feelings and concerns. Someone allowing you to use their office is exposing themselves to lots of risk with no benefit. I would be nervous giving a bunch of strangers unsupervised access to my office. It could be that he got cold feet.

In regards to the specific situation we don't know the details of what transpired (you do). This is what you signed up for when you decided to pursue indie film making for free.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh okay, what can I do to be more considerate of their feelings then, or what can I do to make things work, so no clients will show up by surprise for example, like maybe I can help out with that in some way, that would serve both our needs, or what could I do?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Assuming that you've picked a day when they're not trading, all you can do is offer to stop filming when a surprise client is there. Usually business visits last less than an hour, so it shouldn't interfere too much with your filming.

If they still ask you to leave, you've either made a poor choice of location or you're doing something that the owner doesn't expect.

It's unusual for you to to be asked to leave, I can only think of one occasion on a drama when a production I was working on was asked to leave. That was probably due to poor communication with the shop owner as to what was involved by the people who organised the location.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Re locations, I note for example When Hitch couldn't get permission to film in the UN Headquarters for North by Northwest he just covertly filmed Cary Grant arriving. Ryan, just looking back at some of this, it seems to to me that none of the issues you have raised would stop anyone from making a movie if that was their objective. So it seems your main objective, whether conscious or not, is to not make a movie. If I'm wrong, just forget about the hypotheticals and do it.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh well the owner probably had another reason to cut us short, but was using other business associates coming in unexpectedly, as an excuse for us, rather than having to go into a longer reason, perhaps.

I don't think I would have done something that he didn't expect though. I was the first to show up and knock on the door, and he didn't see anyone else, and he told he this right away, that we only have a couple of hours now, so I think it was a third party problem, that was the reason, and nothing I did.

I could do that, it's just I worry about certain legalities, of using locations without permission.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

That's not what they mean. They mean find a way to do it with permission/legally, but in a way that guarantees you won't get booted. AGAIN, this will probably mean spending money.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh okay. I wanted to shoot outside a courthouse for example, and perhaps we can do it in a way, that it won't bother anyone, but it's still legal.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

It depends on the regulations in your area for filming in public places (if you need a permit) and where precisely you wish to film. Contacting the court house would be a starting point. You will probably be restricted from filming people going in and out of the court house.

If you can't get permission, it may be more guerrilla film making, which could involve shooting hand held in order not to attract attention.It's easier if you don't go onto the court precincts and stay on the public areas.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Oh okay. Well I wanted to shoot on the courthouse steps on a weekend, when it is closed, but some say it's even open on the weekend. But others say it's not because they have to wait till Monday morning for judges to look at cases, so I am still trying to find that out.

I am reluctant to go handheld though, because the rest of the project will not be handheld, so if only one scene is handheld, I thought it would stick out as inconsistent with the others therefore, stylistically.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Given the location, you should clear it, at the very least, with the local police. If you don't they'll be stopping every few minutes to check up on you. The steps are likely to be on the court precincts.

When filming these low budget films, you sometimes need to get shots as you can. Using a gimbal for the static shots would be another approach. In some cities, it's using a tripod that creates the difficulty.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Okay thanks, I considered the gimbal just a few minutes ago, thanks. I can clear it with police then. I thought a gimbal would still attract attention. I only have a boom to record audio with though, unless I try to arange for other accomodations.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

It's less attention grabbing than a tripod,

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

That's true, but would the boom pole still attract attention, or be a problem compared to a gimbal though?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

It depends on your local police and their attitude to filming. It seems to be more about about causing an obstruction, which is why you can get away with hand held filming.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Here in the UK, you don't need to get permission to shoot from the public land, but as a courtesy, the police can be very grateful for the tip-off. Shooting in Bristol, they helped us get access to pedestrianised areas in a vehicle and it was worth a couple of emails and then a quick visit to the Police station when we arrived. We found they had briefed the traffic wardens and community support officers and they actually kept the public out of our shots.We were using a national chain of chemists as our location, using their doors and they were very happy to have us opening and closing their doors with a bowler hat wearing butler!

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

I gather London can be a bit of a nightmare in parts. We had a permit when filming in New York and it made life easier with the parking, although we sneaked in and did undercover filming in the subway.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

I hate it! Quite a bit of London is actually privately owned but the public use it 'as public' but this allows the security people to get very heavy. Shooting on Drury Lane, from the public Pavement is perfectly legal - it really is public land, but being in theatre land, it's very busy, and lots of the businesses believe that you cannot point a camera at their property (which legally you can) and you cannot shoot people entering or leaving (which again, you can). Arguing this over and over again is tedious, and stops the process. Doing some pieces to camera for the organisation on the second floor of one building took ten takes because the security people for the theatre over the road did not like being in the background of the shot and ruined the quite short sequences on purpose. The other way included the Theatre Royal and it had huge advertising banners which we did not want in the shot. Perfectly legal but awful. Courts, even when they are closed can be risky. The threat of terrorism makes people really jumpy - so even if what you are doing is quick, it's still risky and prone to interruption.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Why does Ryan ask us about the rules and regulations for filming in public in his area? Feels like he’s asked this same question before.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Paul -
A while back Noa Put had a thread about how to make the photographer disappear. Is that something that could have been used to make the security guy disappear?

If so, I'd like to be able to see their faces when they're showed the edited clip with them missing!

[Uh ... "What did you put on your time sheet? Working when???]
Falsifying one's time sheet isn't a good idea. And the video shows you weren't there!
"We *might* be able to make a deal to put you back in." Everything has it's price.

Speaking of Noa, anyone know what happened to him?

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

There's a Facebook film making community in Saskatoon, who would seem to be able to assist in advice regarding local locations and if permits are required.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

If Ryan isn't already a part of that, I'm going to facepalm so hard I shatter my hand.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

I shouldn't comment because this has become really silly, but just in case it's not a comedy, If I needed a court building, for example, all low-no budget:
i) least preferred option: greenscreen the set, which of course I wouldn't, tacky
ii) It's drama, a court is just a building with pillars and an After Effects sign on the pediment and brass sign near the entrance saying "Court". The School of Arts building in my town looks more like a cliché court than the actual court anyway.
iii) I could use an actual court building in a country town where the one-time court has been converted into a local art gallery. Might have to buy a painting.
iv) preferred option, I could film the local court from the outside, but not from the steps without permission, which I'm pretty sure the court clerk would give if I explained what I wanted and was only going to be filming at weekends.
(Then there's stock footage *** idea***might get and post some. ***Idea*** Write a script: "a dysfunctional filmmaker explores options for a courtroom drama". Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.)

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Rainer those are all good suggestions. Some thing Ryan should have come up with on his own. Ask for permission. If it’s something as simple as the main character entering the court house then film him with dslr, wide shot of facade, climbing the stairs, reach to open the door, then cut to another building interior... Any official government building with columns would do if you weren’t allowed to film outside. Honestly it be easier if we flew out there and filmed and directed his movie for him.

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

Perhaps Ryan is hoping to publish a book "Film Making For Dummies" and has figured out how to get us to write it for him.

As I implied earlier, when I gave him a multiple choice question, I think he is more interested in talking about making a film, than he is in making a film.

Possible future questions:

What to do if the cast starts cursing at me and all walk off the set?

What to do if my alarm clock doesn't ring, and I sleep through the shoot?

What to do if it rains?

What to do if a terrorist throttles me and smashes my camera with a baseball bat?

What to do if there's an earthquake in California?

What to do if a large fly lands on one of the cast's head while he's delivering his lines (oh, wait, that happened this past Wednesday night) ....

Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
 

While it is always fun (and very human) to gently mock others I am pretty sure all of this stems from him being on the spectrum, being a person who practically needs hard and rules in everything he does, and trying to do something (filmmaking) where a) there are no real rules, only guidelines and b) the unexpected pops up all the time and has to be dealt with quickly and often creatively.