Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks. Yes I think the headlights will work, as long as they are not on the car yes. I think I would need a few of the on stands to light the actors evenly.

As for removing the sound in post, whenever I've tried doing that in the past with background noises, such as furnaces, not allowed to switch off, or things like that, a good portion of the audio quality in the dialogue went out with it. But as long as it will be acceptable still.

One thing I mentioned before though was using 1000 watt lights for lighting. A 1000 watt headlight is 8000 lumens. A car headlight is only 700 lumens. Wouldn't this mean that a 1000 watt light would be brighter than a car headlight or no?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Higher wattage mains lights will usually be brighter than car headlights. Since you've got the figures I'm not sure why you're asking the question.

There are a number of battery powered LED lights that you can hire from plant hire companies, they won't be designed for photographic work, but in the context of a thriller they could be interesting.

For example:

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Remember that optics apply to lighting as well as lenses. If you look at at old fashioned arri Fresnel. The photometric data shows it is very bright when on narrow angle but quite dim on fully wide. The intensity of the actual light source can be quite meaningless if it’s an isotrophic point source. As soon as you concentrate output in one direction the figures change!

One thought on your script and the banning. Forums are wide and classless containing a huge variety of people. If your script content troubled them then would not your movie do so too? If subject matter limits audience groups is that good?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks. When I did the car headlight test, I stood in front of the car and tried to go at the distance, where the lights seem to be the brightest on me, unless that was the wrong angle to go?

Well I wanted to make a script that I found interesting, and struck a cord as well. Cause if I make a script that is too 'safe', I felt there is a good chance it would be forget-able, especially if it's a micro-budget indie film, from a newcomer.

So I thought if I produce and direct something that struck a cord, it would leave more of an impression after in comparison. But I've also been a fan of darker stories usually as well.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

You have to know the audience that you're aiming for, so if you're going for festivals, you may be limited to those for a particular genre.

From what I've heard so far, it doesn't really leap out at you. I've caught a few minutes of a low budget revenge movie on the horror channel called "Nude Nuns with Big Guns" and it pretty much does what it says on the box, so leaps out at it's intended audience. I gather it was the subject of one of the largest copyright lawsuits in California. I didn't know there was a sub genre called nunsploitation, but think of priests as gangsters dealing in drugs and you get some sense of the film.

To stand out in that crowd you need a really strong one line hook and I'm not sure you've got that.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Yeah I haven't got a hook line yet. I remember seeing the trailer for Nude Nuns with Big Guns a while back, now that you mention it.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If the problem isn't enough power for the lights with one car, ask the crew if they have cars where the battery power can be borrowed for a while.

Save one car that doesn't use it's battery along with a set of jumpers to use in the event someone can't start their car.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

You should have a hook line by this stage, how can you get people to work on your film or sell it to anyone if you can't pitch it?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

That's true I should be pitching it in a single line, rather than a paragraph or so. I will talk it over with others and come up with one. Thanks.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Why are you asking other people? You really must grow a set Ryan and not always ask other people on every subject on earth. Sometimes you will be wrong - that's life, but committees are always the groups who organise disasters.

On the light front - why add this line, because it shows you to be again looking for a rule "unless that was the wrong angle to go?" We cannot answer this - we weren't there. Upllighting looks different to downlighting. Especially shadows - you might find somebody with a 4X4 with roof spotlights might be useful?

What would be really good would be one post from you saying something like this....
"Ok, thanks, but I considered everything and went with this XXXXXXX and it was pretty good apart from ZZZZZZZ which I'll easily sort in the next one. Thanks for your help"

Normally, you post Ok, thanks, then ask another question - have you noticed?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh I just thought it was a good idea to ask other people's opinions on a hookline. Is that not what others do to get opinions and feedback on it?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Yes I noticed that I ask other questions after I say thanks. I ask follow up questions to advice. Is that not good? This for example:

I just asked a follow up question to the advice. Is that not good?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Nonsense, if you don;t know what it is, why should anyone else care? You're the writer.director/producer it's part of your job. You may get suggestions that you might "steal" but you need to have your own first, otherwise people may suspect that you don't really know what your film is about.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay. But isn't a good idea to get people's input on my hookline once I come up with one, instead of just sending it out there with no prior opinion on it?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If you haven't come with one how can other people respond to it? They tend to evolve with time as you finesse it, but having one enables you to really understand what your film is really about and not just the plot.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

What I meant was, I will come up with some, and then give it to others for opinions.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

The rule for me is to tell people what you intend - as in I'm calling it bla bla bla - and then if they think it's stupid, they will tell you, but DO NOT ASK for their opinion. Your opinion needs to be strong enough you dilute it. If you ask other people's opinion, remember everyone has one, if pushed, and do you really even want to consider their preference for titles when they don't have the attachment to the project you do.

You really need to learn to be decisive and make decisions - considered ones and gut reaction ones.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks, I will try to do that and think about that.

Well as for deciding a camera, I tested some out and I think the one I will go for is the Black magic pocket camera, as it seems to have a combination of features which I like. It may be a jack of all trades, and master of none perhaps, but maybe a combination of things I like is better, rather than being a master in just one or two areas.

I could go for the 4K or 6K, but since there are no 6K TVs, it seems like an odd feature. Is that just for zooming in post, if you have to?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

6k is there because Bayer sensors don't have a true resolution that matches the number of photosiites, so if you want a true 4k resolution, you need to over sample on the sensor. This is what you'd record if shooting RAW,.

This is standard on a number of high end cameras like the Arri Alexa and the RED cameras.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/35...rs-baby-anyway

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, so when you say that is what I would record when shooting RAW, you are saying that RAW is 6k?

Is there any advantage of 6K over 4 that most viewers or distributors looking at your work, will care about?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

The biggest difference between the BM 4k and 6k is the native lenses they accept. The 4k uses MFT lenses. This is a good thing since they're less expensive. The 6k has a super 35 sensor and uses EF mount lenses.

What Brian is saying a common practice to achieve higher quality video is to film at a higher resolution than you intend to use and once you're finished editing you export to your lower intended resolution. In this case film at 6k in order to produce a higher quality 4k. The main problem is raw 6k takes a lot of processing power and space. If you're on a budget like you are it's not worth it.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, well I am use to EF lenses and that is what I have. So if try to use them on the 4K bmpcc, I would need a lens adapter, but is that going to be a problem with the camera, if they are EF?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Are you counting that terrible kit lens you have? If so then you don't have any quality ef lenses. Yes you can buy an adapter that costs $400. You should decide what lenses you can realistically afford, then get the camera that is designed for them.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I wasn't counting the kit lens, I was counting my 50 prime, and my 18-400 tamron zoom lens which are both ET.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

The tamron is a very slow lens. the 50 is inexpensive. I wouldn't let those lenses hold you back.

The problem with all these lenses, they're fly by wire, and thus you can't pull focus. So you'll need to get cinema lenses to do that, that's if its still important to you. So again if that's the case that still puts you at ground zero. If you truly want to use EF lenses I'd get the 6k camera.

WolfCrow has a number of detailed articles on the subject of lens for the BMPC
https://wolfcrow.com/the-best-lenses...ema-camera-4k/

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, well if I the the 4K bmpcc, what's a good telephoto lens for that, that goes up to 300mm? I do not need a fast lens, cause the DOF is way too shallow on a fast lens, so what is a good slower lens that goes up to 300mm for that camera then, that is not fly-by-wire?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Brian and Pete are right. Just to explain further, the Pocket 6K records ProRes at 4K by oversampling the full 6K sensor, so you will be getting a "true" 4K from the 6K sensor, as Brian mentions. To me, that is the "sweet spot" and what I use (ProRes 4K). And it's pretty inexpensive, because you can record 4K onto an external Samsung T5 SSD drive (which is cheap as chips, relatively speaking) rather than the small fortune you'll spend on those internal AngelBird cards if you want to record 6K RAW.

When you record ProRes 4K on the Pocket 6K, just make sure you set the Gamma to "Film", so that the files will capture the full dynamic range of the camera.

Summary:
The Pocket 4K will record RAW in 4K but, with the Bayer sensor, you might only be getting 3.2K in actual resolution.
The Pocket 6K records RAW in 6K only (it won't do RAW in 4K) and also records an oversampled ProRes 4K which gives a "true" 4K resolution.

Regarding lens choices when deciding between getting a Pocket 4K or 6K, people like Brian can give you better advice than I can. But I will offer this strategic advice:

As cameras change, you'll want to take your lenses with you. EF is heavily catered for by camera manufacturers, because they are so popular and widespread.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay. But is the extra resolution worth the money though, if you want to market your work, or if in the future, you get a distributor, will they want that extra resolution or care?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Ryan. It’s very dangerous to say you don’t need a fast lens because with your history I suspect that next month or next year you will be complaining you need to shoot in lower light. Hang on, wasn’t this your exact problem last week? You needed more sensitivity. Surely now is the time to buy a quality lens that will last?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well it's just that a faster lens means much more shallow DOF, and I feel it would be best to light the scene better, and have more light, than sacrificing DOF. I thought that in the future, investing in brighter lights is better, than a faster lens, cause then at least I have more DOF to focus with. That's the thing about fast lenses, is that everyone wants them, but no one talks about the problem they have with shallow DOF, as oppose to just using brighter lights.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Rubbish ryan. A faster lens gives you the option to let more light through if you need it. They are perfectly capable of being stopped down to increase depth of field. The more light it can let through if YOU decide you need it is important.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

In truth Ryan you make easy decisions hard and complex decisions impossible. There are two primary problems you face: 1) You have small budget which restricts what equipment you can realistically own that in turn limits how you can film. 2) You have misguided ideas on what you need and problematic approaches to filming. Combining the two makes for impossible to meet requirements.

Most serious minded cinema film makers on a budget will get 3 cinema primes: wide, normal, telephoto. You keep talking about dof problems, but with MFT the dof is big to begin with, even when wide open. It's not hard to predict your thinking, shoot deep focus never have worry about pulling focus, now I can use my inexpensive fly by wire lenses. All you seem to care about super telephoto lenses.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I can guarantee he's misusing deep focus idea as a lazy shortcut to avoid pulling focus. If you notice most of he post in the last month he's been talking about shooting at small aperture like f11 for the night scene. He also insists on using super telephoto lenses...

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, well I was thinking I would get 2 lenses. A 24mm, a 50mm, and one that can zoom into 300mm around for certain shots here and there, where I want high compression.

I can research more on MFT lenses if that's better. But I was told by another filmmaker slower lenses, and more light, would be easier on the focus puller if that's true. I mean in my experience, it's hard for actors to hit their marks exactly, when it comes to shots with quite a bit of movement, so I thought that giving them extra DOF room was good.

When it comes to MFT lenses, why do they have a much bigger DOF? What makes them different to have that? Is it because a 300mm EF lens, is longer on a bmpcc, than a 300mm MFT, and therefore more DOF?

What I am also worried about with opening up real wide on a fast lens though, is that is there such thing as too shallow? If I am watching a scene with fast movements and suspense, and it's shot at say f2.2, that would be so shallow on a long lens, that I would be struggling to see what is in focus and what is not, during the fast suspense. So isn't there such thing as too shallow to worry about therefore? It's not that I reluctant to choose shallow DOF out of laziness, it's out coherence for the audience.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I don't know why you're getting getting confused about this.

You can use a f1,4 lens at f2.8, f5.6 or f8, with some cheaper fast lenses you may not want to use them wide open because the quantity isn't there.

I used to set T1.3 Zeiss lenses at T2.8 pretty regularly (the T is for transmission stops). just because you've got a wide aperture lens, you don't need to use it wide open.

You should have a good monitor, which is large enough to reveal how sharp your pictures are. having peaking will assist with this, especially if it's coloured

MFT lenses have more depth of field because you've got a smaller sensor, so using shorter focal length lenses for the same field of view. Super 35 or FF cameras will be using longer focal length lenses. EF is a camera mount, it has nothing to do with the focal length of the lens, the sensor size is the important factor regarding the field of view for a particular focal length. If you mounted a EF mount lens on a MFT camera the DOF would be the same as a MFT lens with the same focal length.

All this is the job of the DP and the focus puller, they will call out if a take is soft. They will pull focus during a shot, so that the important part of the action is sharp.

This is going over old ground again, there is a whole thread on deep focus etc.

I don't know why you keep asking if something is true, with most of these things if you think about it for moment you can work it out for yourself, Especially things like stopping the lens down (so giving more DOF) will make life easier for the focus puller.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

For sure, yes I know I can only open up to f2.8, but even with that, I still only have about less than 3 inches of focus, on a telephoto, according to my calculations. So even that is not much focus room at f2.8, and is still very shallow, if that's okay.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

MFT have a 2x crop so the lenses you mention would be equivalent to a normal (24=48mm) and telephoto (50=100mm). You would need an ultra wide to get an equivalent wide.

There is very little need for a super-telephoto. These lenses are made primarily for people who can't get close to their subjects like nature, sports, and event photographers. But you can because when shooting a movie at any time you can yell cut and reposition the camera as close as you need.You like to go on about compression, a normal telephoto is fine, and at your current level, no one is going to care about compression. This is film school kind of stuff. It's not like it doesn't matter but just like grading it isn't essential to the success of the film.

Like Brian is saying fast lenses don't need to to be shot wide open but its nice to have when needed. Lighting is difficult and expensive. One of the most useful tools to combat low light is a fast lens. MFT are not good low light performers to begin with and stick a slow lens on it...

The MFT dof is huge compared to FF. People who use the G5 for weddings have 2 complaints its not great in low light and its difficult to get a shallow dof.

One of the main reasons people get the Black Magic Pocket cameras is that they can mount manual focus lens that you can pull focus. You still haven't said how you intend to pull focus with the fly by wire lenses you have.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

But the Tamron 18-400mm isn't fly-by-wire though. It has hard stops and I can pull focus with it therefore. Unless I missed something?

The reason why I want a telephoto lens is because of shots where I want high compression. I tried faking compression with wider lenses and getting closer, but it didn't work. People could tell the compression was fake. Here are some examples, of a telephoto lens with real compression, vs. a 50mm lens, with fake compression:


I was told that faking the compression with a 50mm does not work, and I need a telephoto lens to get compression. That is why I wanted one was for those types of shots, such as an OTS shot, where the actors are really closer together, or where I want the gun to be really close to the face.

Another reason for a telephoto lens, is cause in the chase scenes, where a character is running from another, I can pan the camera for a longer along with the actor for a long amount of time compared to a wider lens. Here is a testI did with a telephoto:


So these types of shots, as well as high compression shots, where I want actors to appear closer together in an OTS, or where I want a gun to look close to the face, are the reasons why I wanted a telephoto lens for those shots. Does that make sense, or can these shots be done with a wider lens? Now I could say nevermind those types of shots, but I feel I should be able to direct the shots my way to what I feel is best to tell the story, shouldn't I?

Another thing is, is that long lenses make things like punches look more convincing, cause it looks like the actors are actually hitting the other person compared to wider lenses of course. So if I do not have telephoto lenses will I still be able to sell the effect?

But also, if shooting on a fast telephoto lens is best, with a shallow DOF is best, than what I if I just did that then?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Regarding fake hitting, the actors meed to have good timing and the camera has to be in the right position to hide that the blow isn't connecting. That combined with the right sound effect gives the impression that the blow has connected without telephoto lenses, which aren't the most dynamic looking lenses for a fight scene..

I suspect your problem is that the first two factors aren't correct. Any fight scene needs a lot of rehearsing and choregraphing, they can spend days putting rehearsing these scenes. Professional wrestlers pull it off without telephoto lenses in front of a live audience. A fight arranger would be worth hiring, if you've got the funds.

Why not use a profile shot for the gun stuck into someone's face? it looks a lot nastier than a frontal shot or even how the nose cut in Chinatown, which doesn't use long lenses. You seem to be trying to get the lens to do what the actors should be delivering. .

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks, I thought that telephoto lenses would be safer for the actors, cause they don't have to get as close to punch then, compared to professional wrestlers.

What about the other shots though where I would want a telephoto lens? When you say show a profile shot of a gun in someone's face, well in my scenario, the shooter is further away and not up close like that, but I also want to show an extreme face close up of the shooter to gauge their emotional point of view. For example let's say for one shot I want to have an extreme close up of an actors face while he shoots someone. With a telephoto, you can get an extreme close up of an actor's face with the gun looking very close to the face. What if I shot it instead, where the camera is close and moved past the gun for an extreme close up of the face.

So you get an extreme close up of the face, but without a gun in front of it, cause the camera is past the gun. Would that work just as well then?