Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Ever notice that every scene Ryan requires super telephoto and compression. Intimacy...compression! Speed... compression!

Good movies tell a story in a visually interesting way. In the GBU look at the variety of shots and how they all work with the location and enforce the point of the scene.

I try not to spend too much time because its a waste. He doesn't listen or can not comprehend.

Ryan instead of asking us these questions, go to the locations and try them out for yourself.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Sorry, I am trying to comprehend it.

As for the parking structure, it is very square shaped with pillars. I said a few pages before that I don't think the circular motion was do-able, but it was then replied to me to do it anyway and not be so picky, so I was trying to do it anyway therefore.

However, in this test shot I did, before, with my friend running through, the park, she is not running in a circular motion. She is doing it in a straight line, and the lens can pan with her for a bout 14 seconds:


That's plenty of time, for a shot to last I think. So even in a straight line, the focal length can hold for plenty of time it seems.

Their are two main chases in the script.

One is outdoors, in the woods and the other is in a parking garage. The parking garage is mostly the police closing it make arrests and the villains running away, and a firefight starts during the chase.

The outdoor one is more of a simple chase between three people, without guns.

As for a long focal length not being able to make the actor look like the are running faster if there is no objects for them to run past, the parking garage has plenty of pillars in though, so wouldn't those be the background and foreground objects to create that effect with a long focal length?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

You can do something with a telephoto lens, but having the camera tracking in a confined space is much more dynamic for a chase. It doesn't even have to be smooth and steady.

Your telephoto shot is just for jogging, it's not a chase shot. It'll work if they're running through moving cars and between moving cars, with everything moving, but not the way you're planning. There;s no danger in that.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Why did you ask us about the panning chase in the park? You filmed a test and seem to be happy with it. You wasted our time on something that wasn't a problem. The parking garage is a completely different situation. Why don't you go there and do a similar test and stop asking us these what if questions. I can see the restricted space and low light are going to be factors you will have to discover for yourself.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well I wanted to do a test there but it costs a lot to shoot there, and that would be an extra day of costs to do a test. I tried just going there to do the test without it being a shoot day, and just see if I could do it, but they would not let me. That's why I didn't choose there. But I thought that the park test, would also suffice for the outdoor chase as far as tests go.

When you say there is no danger in the way I am planning it, what do you mean specifically. How is there no danger in the way I am planning it?

When you say that a tracking shot will be more dynamic, if this is the case, then how come other directors do not use tracking shots for chases? Like for example, off the top of my head, why did the directors who made Seven Samurai, and Ben-Hur, chose for their cases, to be panning shots, instead of tracking ones?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

There's no struggle, no overcoming obstacles, it's just running,

Here's a walking chase scene that has danger.


Things have moved on since the Seven Samurai and Ben Hur.and you're aiming at a different market.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, but I thought that in mine that when the police are shooting at you and you are shooting back, as in my scene, isn't that danger? More so than Marathon Man, if there are bullets flying?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

This is danger from Ben Hur.


The danger in Marathon Man was him, a Nazi walking through crowds of Jews being called out for what he is and the possibility that they may turn on him.

You need more than just bullet and shooting guns for a chase scene in a thriller. Westerns for kids have had that since the Lone Ranger from way back.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well I felt there is more than just bullets flying. Characters are killed during and two other characters are effected by it. So I thought there was danger going on, but we are talking about types of shots, or the story danger?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Everything, because the story will affect the type of shots, as will the location and what is happening in the location apart from the chase, People getting killed is par for the course in these things, you need more than that for a good chase scene,

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, well so far for this story situation, I was going to have the long lens panning shot, be mostly a mastershot, I would cut back to whenever I please.

Then I was going to do all these other shots closer up to the action. But I could have the a car tracking shot as a master shot, if that's better.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Why can't you go to the garage at an off peak time to a level no one is on and do some unobtrusive tests hand held with your camera? Or find a similar garage.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

I tried going at 10 at night when no one was around and two security guards came out the door and asked me to leave before I could even set up the tripod.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Perhaps the concept of a master shot is holding you back with a chase scene.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh well I felt the other shots would be easier, it's just the master I was asking about since I would want more DOF in it theoretically since it's a longer focal length. However, would it be better if I had a tracking car shot as the master shot instead?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

What part of unobtrusive don't you understand? Find another garage that has many floors, be mindful of their security cameras and do hand held tests. Or shoot from in the car. You give up so easy.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

But I can't do a handheld test on a telephoto though, for a telephoto panning shot. If I am trying to do the same telephoto shot panning shot, I need a tripod. If I do a car tracking shot as a test, then I need to drive around with a car while shooting. These are not handheld shots we are talking about here.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Use your storyboard to plan shorts, have overlaps. Most of the time master shots never get used, so don't waste too much time thinking about it.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well it's just in the past when I didn't use a master, I felt I need more coverage later, so going by my own experience, masters are good to have. What do you mean by 'overlaps' in this context?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Overlap the action between the shots, so that you've got a choice of cutting points.

If all the action within the scene isn't seen in the shot, it's probably not a master shot.

Having the storyboard means that you won't leave out shots. There probably isn't a master shot in the Psycho shower scene because elements (if not the whole scene - still up for debate) were storyboarded by Saul Bass.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Your film course really was rubbish Ryan. They don't seem to have covered any of the craft, just the art - and that in a very haphazard way. Have you noticed that Pete, Brian and myself often do things differently through choice, but easily understand each other, and what they are trying to tell you - but you don't?

Overlaps, in the context used above is perfectly straightforward and obvious. If you can't get it - then our help is pointless.

And yes - you give up so easily I'm amazed you even get anything shot.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

There are many purposes of a test. Can you shoot with existing light? Is the lens too slow or not enough dof. The point is not to do a perfect pan it's to determine whether the shot viable at that location. You might even discover that you don't want a telephoto because there isn't enough room. That the whole panning idea doesn't work in this location! If you must setup a tripod do it quickly not in view of security or surveillance cameras, inside the car, behind a pillar...

You turn everything on it's head. You've predetermined this panning shot is necessary when it's probably not.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Well I managed to get a bit of footage before I was kicked out with the telephoto lens. I think there is enough room, the pans just won't be really long.

I also did some handheld tests. Without lighting, I have and the existing light, I would have to shoot at ISO 800, shutter 1/50, and the aperture open to f2.2.

But with a better camera, perhaps I could close that aperture more for the action, and not have as much noise, but also more lights?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Again if you already have done the test and have determined that is what you want then why are you asking us?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

How much lighting will you need for a car park? If you got chucked out with a small tripod, how will you get access for a day to set up lights? Not really viable as a guerrilla shoot.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

It sounded like he’s willing to pay for an official shoot day there.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh well they told me before that it's workable if I get permission in advance. I was asking about what kind of camera I would need for better ISO quality, if such a large place was lit, and in order to get a more closed aperture, is what I meant before.

Plus wouldn't shooting guerrilla style look more amateur because then you cannot set up lights and equipment compared to non-guerrilla?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Unless you've got a big budget you won't be able to light large areas like a car park (nor will you have the time), you can only deal with the foreground, the rest will be available light. Shooting with f6.5 lenses is dumb, so best dropped for this type of stuff, there's no point in putting in high ISOs in a drama because of the noise.

A good guerrilla film maker could probably do a better job than you with the lights at the moment

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

But I don't think there is this hard rule that all dramas cannot have higher ISOs is there?

As for dealing with the foreground only, well when the actors are running around a lot, the foreground becomes the background, and goes back and forth there. What if I just hire a DP to take care of all that and the lighting?

As for the aperture, I am okay with a very shallow DOF during action scenes, as long as the audience is. It's just whenever you see it in movies, the action scenes are never shot on a shallow DOF, so if I did, I would be doing something I've never seen done before, and would be something new, as long as that's okay?

But as far the parking garage being too large to light, I said this before, and it was said to me before to still light it anyway, and that I was making excuses.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

There's no rule, if you can live with the noise at high ISOs that's fine, but what may be acceptable to you may not be to a DP, especially on a large screen. A native 800 ISO is pretty common these days, while some Sony broadcast cameras are 2000 ISO, you can shoot shoot in a lot of places with that, as long you're not using crazy stops.

Audiences are well used to productions shot at f2 these days.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, but as far as shallow DOF, goes are there chase and fight scenes shot at f2 nowadays though?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Yes, of course they are, it depends on the nature of the scene.

Some films have been shot at f1.4 for some scenes and that goes back to the 1970s, so nothing new, Kubrick even used f0.7 for more static stuff, Your limitation is the skill of the focus puller, so f2.8 would be more sensible for you. Action scenes tend to be wider shots, so you may not be aware how shallow the DOF is, plus big productions have big lighting rigs, while you don't.

You can light the foreground, but with a large car park you need a lot of lights, a smaller one can be more manageable. Power and running cables will also ne an issue if you;re short of time, I suspect we only saw a corner of what I assume is a car park, so you're not providing enough information for your full lighting requirements.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay, it's just what if the actors move from the foreground into the background during the action. That was my concern since it's an action scene where there is going to be a lot of moving around, from background to foreground.

When you say you suspect we only saw a corner of the car park, do you mean that parking garage shot I posted way before?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

This is why I recommended a set a fast cine primes, stay away from the telephoto lenses with shallow dof and use wider lenses, but you don't listen. If you shoot in high gain this scene wont match the other scenes.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

What about the whole lighting the foreground, but not the background, if the actors are moving around a lot and the background becomes the foreground, and vice versa?

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Talk to your DP about this, the background won't be in darkness, the foreground will just have better modeling than you get with the standard car park lighting, You can use localized spots in areas of interest in the background if need be

You want your film to have a consistent look, so you don't want to be ramping up the ISO between scenes or even shots. .

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Sure. It was also suggested to me that I open up the aperture wide for the master, but then for the closer ups, close it and use more light then.

If that's a good idea. But we would have to make sure the light matches the master shots then.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

You keep the stop constant throughout the scene for constancy, that's the way you shoot scenes in a drama.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

If you change the lighting setup between the master and the shots it will never edit together will it! Shadows will be brighter and the hotspots stand out. Do you really have the budget to light this large an area? It's a lot of kit and a lot of power.

Re: What camera would be best for me when it comes to color grading?
 

Oh okay but there are other movies where the aperture looks like it changes from shot to shot, unless it's saying the same, and on those cameras, the change is just more noticeable.

As for lighting, I see what you mean. But let's say I do not like the parking structure, cause it's too big too light. It will have a guerrilla look to it, lighting wise. The other scenes will not have a guerrilla lighting look. So won't think style of lighting look inconsistent with the other scenes then, if I choose not to try to light it?