Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, well I don't feel that it is, or at least that is not my intention. I tried to make it more unique compared to what I've seen before. I've never seen a group of police get manipulated into revenge on a group of rapists in a movie before, for example.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Yeah that’s it.

It is what it is. Whether you realize it or not. At the end of the day you should be strong enough to listen to what others think but you should also do it if you have strong convictions.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Your basic premise is flawed, the cops have to deal with unsavory people of all sorts, but they don't take revenge on them and are unlikely to be manipulated into it, since they've got a justice system to do that for them.

There are lots of cases of police, perhaps more so in the past, but it still happens, believing their gut instinct (or just ambition) that someone is guilty and using a forced confession or other methods to get a conviction. That is more likely than a lynch mob in the police station, stuff like that will tend to happen out in the city, where a cover story can be created.

There's also films where cops take the law into their own hands e.g. the traffic cops in "Magnum Force".

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Yeah Magnum Force is a good example, couldn't a few police be pushed into something like that?

Also, why wouldn't they do it out in the city, where a cover story would be created? Wouldn't they?

Another movie I can think of is City By The Sea. In that movie, a cop's son is framed for the murder of another police officer, and his ex wife (the son's mother) tells him, to get to his son first before the other police do, cause she knows the other police will kill him for she says.

But if it's not true, and the police do not do that, then why would a mother worry about her son being killed by them in that case, if the police do not do that?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

You're taking a simplistic view of these things. I Haven't seen "City By The Sea" but looking at the Wiki plot there's family connections involving saving an estranged son etc. ( It deals with the family problems of a wayward youth and is set against a man trying to break free of his past.) In your case, you seem to have come up with a plot that's seemingly not driven by the characters, which probably why you're getting the not knowing what they're thinking feedback.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, well motivation wise, the main character wants revenge on the villains for being raped. The main character wants to do this by manipulating the police into doing it for them, for the murdered officer. If a person wanted to do that as their plan, what could there realistically be the best way about going about it?

I mean it seems to me that plan makes sense. Rape victim wants revenge, because justice system screwed up. So, manipulate justice system itself to get the revenge for you, then you don't have to worry about being trouble for the murders, cause then it's their problem.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

I suppose it boils down to one question. Can you write? I can’t.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

It depends on how likely it is for the cops to murder someone. The more likely method is that the victim gathers intelligence and lays a trail for the cops to follow., but there's no guarantee that cops will murder someone.

The question is did corrupt cops cause the failure of the rape case? Rape cases are notorious in being difficult, so failure to get a conviction is pretty common. Why is this rape victim going further than any of these other victims?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Yes the victim does leave trail of crumbs. Even though there is no guarantee the victim still hopes it might happen.

As for why one victim is not willing to get revenge compared to the others, well the reason is is that one character cannot let it go so much compared to them. It's like that with all these revenge thrillers where the protagonist, cannot let things go as much as the other victims, and is just different that way.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

But why personally does the victim have the need to do this?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Well I guess I need to ask the question why does the victim get revenge in other stories, where the victim gets revenge, for being wronged?

Like in the movie Revenge (2017) for example, why does the rape victim seek revenge in that movie? Why didn't she just leave it to the police to handle, and let them have final call?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Good characters will have a differing need for revenge to satisfy themselves. There's no point in referring other films, you, as the writer has to know the needs of all your characters, because that's what drives your story along.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, I just use other movies help explain. The need is, after what the victim experienced, doesn't want to happen to others from the same group, if they keep on doing it and are not caught or stopped.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Why are you still banging away at this script? This is the same one that your friends weren’t interested in filming because of the disturbing subject matter and rape scene. Let me guess you’ve spent years developing it so despite people’s reservations you are determined to forge ahead. It’s hard enough to get someone to take on an exceptional script and this sounds like it’s far from that. You lack the objectivity because you’re too heavily invested. The fact you are getting similar feedback from multiple sources on and off this board is a red flag. It doesn’t ring true. What did I say about filming what you know.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh I just haven't found a better feature to film. There are some out there, and I can keep looking. Even if friends don't want to do it, I thought I would shop it around elsewhere, to others in the filmmaking community. Plus it saves a lot of money on budget to direct your own script, compared to purchasing someone elses. Like one friend told me, why not just buy a script that every producer is going to be knocking on my door and will want it? Well if there was such a script that producers all want, why would any writer sell it to me... I can't film what I know, cause I don't really know anything interesting to make a good script out of. I'm not one of those writers that can write just anything. I am happy to shoot someone else's script, but not seeing a lot out there, over the months though.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Ryan for goodness sake - be honest. You are a terrible writer. You've admitted all the problems you have and the story is too tough, too gritty, and too complex to contemplate. You haven't even worked out how to tell it, and you disregard all the comments people are making, plugging on with a project clearly few people want to be part of, or interested in. does this not set off HUGE alarm bells in your head? it really should. You seem to be totally unable to write a script. I also suspect that your own life experience has not got much in it that would enable you to even write a couple of pages of genuine high quality dialogue.

I know you really want to make this movie, but who will watch it, EVERYTHING is a compromise. Technical people, equipment, sets, locations, the actors - you just don't have any cohesive plan at all. It's all seat of the pants stuff. You write dead words for the very average actors to deliver in large spaces with no lighting and wobbly cameras on compromised grip equipment with dodgy boom ops and cameras with lenses that won't keep focus.

More camera crews in today from commercial TV and apparently I'm the person now in charge of the forthcoming BBC documentary being shot. Not the director, but effectively the monitor. I've got to match up agreed times and lengths with the BBC and the musicians Union and the crews union, as many of the crew will be in shot and the Musicians Union have rules on shot lengths that feature theormembers playing it -so I have to enforce the agreements. On top of this I have a time-lapse video to control and live video feeds and projectors. I need to be Voldermort and split myself into 7 I think.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

To succeed in the creative arts you have to have talent that sets you apart. In most 9 to 5 jobs average is good enough. I think your time would be better spent pursuing a trade job in video and in your spare time you can experiment with this creative stuff. If you’re truly interested in screen writing here’s an interesting article.

https://screencraft.org/2019/09/30/1...-screenwriter/

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Yeah that's what I am doing experimenting with it in my spare time. I mostly have been asked to do sound or act, for other people's projects some of them paid, some of them free. I would like to do sound more, but there are a lot more casting calls out there, than crew calls.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

This is the point where I have to interject and describe something that happened several years ago on another forum site in this industry (it's just a similar story; it doesn't involve Ryan at all).

Anyway, there was a poster who was very passionate about making a pet project that involved that same subject matter, had the same negative response from people he asked to help, and a large number of regular members on that forum tried desperately to talk him out of it. I saw all of that unfold and it was quite a cringe-fest.

I really hope we don't have to go down that same road here.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Well if I can't find anyone interested in making it then it won't be an issue then, would it? Another thing, is, movies that have to do with this type of subject matter, are made often, at least you see one every couple of years come out, if not more. So I didn't think it would be too difficult to generate interest hopefully.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Having a disturbing subject doesn't concern me, some of the best films have content like that, it's how you tell the story.

There are stories everywhere. If you've been working on this one for years and it's not happening, perhaps it's time to put it on the back burner for a while. Also, given your limited budget, it would be very compromised production. The emotions required would be demanding on your actors and you seem to have difficulty directing actors.

I would try to find a story that unique to your part of the world, your regional libraries may have material that you can dig out. That's where writers often find stories, just by rooting around and finding sources that spark their imagination.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, I don't know what goes on in my part of the world that would be good for a movie though. That's kind of why I wanted to a do story that could happen in many places, without being locked down to a particular area.

I haven't been trying to make it for months, I only showed it to some other filmmakers I know a few weeks ago actually. But it seems lots of filmmaker experience this though, where they want to make a script but may have trouble attracting talent for it though, like Hitchcock did for Psycho, or Kimberly Peirce did for Boys Don't Cry, etc. So I thought it was a normal part of the process before you find the people who want to do it, and I haven't really started looking much yet since I only showed it to the filmmakers I've worked with so far.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

I had to look up beta readers to find out what they were, and after doing so, I dont think its a great indicator of your idea/script quality. What about what someone here suggested, sending the script to one, or even several of the pro script readers who can give you feedback from a professional standpoint regarding whether this thing has a chance of going anywhere? Maybe it costs way too much to be worth it but maybe it doesnt and you could spend a little money now to save a lot more later (by diverting your energy toward a better project).

I confess I did not watch all of Timewine, but I sort of get the gist. It seemed like kind of a cool idea. So you have good ideas (current project is probably not one). In that sci fi/sci fi adjacent genre there is a low budget indie called Primer that got some acclaim. Made for something like $7000, next to zero special effects. They found ways to convey their ideas through clever storytelling and writing and didnt need blood, gun fights, car chases, explosions, flashing lights etc. You could maybe come up with a concept like that. And scifi can be a marketable genre, as I understand it.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, I actually tried coming up with a script a feature length script for Tinewine before, but it's about guys who get rich through time travel, and I don't think I could afford rich exotic looking locations. That's one of the reasons why the short failed I think cause of the locations not being convincing on the budget. But perhaps I could do something like that.

Actually I had a Santa Claus story script my filmmaking friends were excited about but I was talked out of it by some other filmmakers I asked, cause they said it would cost too much money for the sets, of Santa's factory, and North Pole locations, and things like that. But they were much more interested in that one before.

I was also asked to co-direct a sci-fi action thriller movie, planned on being shot next year, if the producers can raise the money for it.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

If in doubt, combine both. To wit:

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Oh okay, well it's not my script, so I cannot combine both :).

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

theyre being jokey with you I think, to justify posting that clip.

Maybe rent primer to see how those guys (who had never made a film of any kind before, and whose director boomed on someone else’s feature to learn how filmmaking works...sound familiar?) made a cool sci fi story without flashy anything (at least from what I remember...maybe there are a few fx shots). It could open your mind.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Yeah I saw Primer before. I don't have any ideas for a low budget sci-fi. I just figure that I might as well do the script I already have, since it's the lowest budget one I have. I mean even if a few filmmakers I know didn't want to do it, cause of the content, I figure I can look to others who are interested in who are more okay with such content. Even if I write a new script, I feel the same filmmakers might not want to make it will probably look for a new set of concerns they have anyway.

Plus I am set to co-direct the other one next year if they get the funding.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

There are universal stories that work and they can be set anywhere. Who would've thought that Hallock, Minnesota, (which stood in for Brainerd in "Fargo)") was the place to make a thriller.

A great script will always attract people wanting to work on it, It's how you handle the subject that matters, I suspect the fact that people don't want to work on it means that the you haven't written a good script on this subject.

From the synopsis you've given, your script doesn't match the very small budget you've got.

Perhaps the "same filmmakers" don't think you're ready to direct a feature length project or may be they don't want to make darker films. we don't know. From all the forum messages, you don't seem to have the living off your wits quality and doing with the flow required on a very low budget film.

You should bear in mind that the audience for a dark film is usually smaller than that of one dealing with lighter subject matter.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Co-Direct worries me greatly.

Directing is a very solo activity. Any attempt to co-direct means conflict ALL OF THE TIME, or one being Director, the other the assistant - NOT, note, Assistant Director. Egos proliferate and it can never be equal. The weaker personality gets the blame for the bad bits and the stronger personality claims all the good bits. it always ends in tears, or a dreadful production. It will be conflict way before you get to shooting. A really crazy idea. I suspect Ryan, that in your circle of friends and work colleagues they're after a gofer. Directors need to make spot decisions. If the decisions in Scene 2 that your co-director make then impact you in Scene 3, you have to change yours - and during that discussion you'll be told how critical it is that the hero does not do X, as this will wreck scene 4 that he will shoot late and it's imperative you don't reveal this. Of course, you need to change but cannot make the on set decision without their input.

Absolute madness in your circumstances. Don't do it. It's a bit like second unit stuff. The director of that has very tight specific briefs, and they cannot go outside it. They're not co-directors, they're second unit directors which is totally different. You cannot share a singular job role, that is singular for a reason.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Well I could do the Santa Claus script that they were much more interested in, I just thought that the budget for that is going to be even higher.

Is it not being able to find a good enough production designer, costume designer, or props, is that the reason, why my current script sounds out of budget? Another thing is, I am actually much more comfortable, making a movie on dark subject matter, than I am making a light one. I watch movies on dark subject matter all the time, and I am more comfortable in that area. I feel a lot less comfortable making a lighthearted movie, feeling like I would screw up how to handle it, more likely, than a dark one. Perhaps I should tell that to the fellow filmmakers, if they expect me to make lighthearted projects, that I feel I will not do well in that area, and am less comfortable with it. Another thing is, I feel that they are much more open to dark subject matter than they realize, cause some of our past projects have been just as dark, and they were excited about doing them. So it's strange how they just got lighthearted all of a sudden.

Or perhaps I can ask them for a compromise, that if they do the dark one with me, I can do the Santa Claus one after, if we get more money for it later on?

Well I took the job cause it was an opportunity to co-direct a feature. If they cannot get funding for it, then I won't worry about it. Do you think that I should ask him if I can be a second unit director instead?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Unless you access much of the above for free. you're basically attempting to shoot a feature film on a short film budget. Have you done a budget for this project? If you're hoping for distribution there are also various insurances and contracts that you need to have in place these days. All of which adds to your costs.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

I think most of what we have to say is wasted on Ryan. I don’t believe his ideas of making a feature film even remotely resemble what you would expect in the real world. Whether we’re talking about budget, responsibilities, equipment, standard practices... It’s like trying to have a serious conversation with a high school student who fancies making a feature film.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

maybe but Im holding out hope.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

I must admit it’s a tantalizing hope... just when you think it’s in reach...

Like that script. The normal reaction to all the negative feedback would be to can it but his take away was to instead put it up for sale.

Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when George has an epiphany that his life is in such a mess because he always does the wrong thing so to rectify it he should do the opposite. Maybe the best advice for Ryan whatever his natural inclination are he should do the opposite.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

mayhap sir. mayhap.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Okay I will talk to the others I've worked with before and ask them if they would be open to doing some other script ideas of mine, if I write them, if that sounds better.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

I had a talk with the fellow filmmaker I worked with the most in the past. He says that he will help me with a feature film but only if I use a script written by a professional writer with veteran experience, where the script will have no trouble getting funded. A script that everyone wants. He says that since a feature film is serious business, we need a script a like that, and he cannot do one that is not written by a professional writer.

So if he works with me on a feature, I will have to get a professional script. Do you think he has a point though, and I should spend a lot of the budget on buying a script that others want?

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Hooray! We finally got there. A friend who knows what he's talking about, and you believe. Grab hold of this person and attach yourself to them, for they are the light at the end of the tunnel.

Ryan -- seriously, we have been saying this for ages.

Re: Why do a lot of filmmakers seem to hate deep focus cinematography?
 

Okay thanks, but how much would it cost to purchase a screenplay that everyone would want? If it's one that everyone wants, like my friend says I should buy, wouldn't that really up the price?