Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. Here is me using a rented gimbal for a short film I did way before though, and in this section of the shortfilm at 0:35, I am using the gimbal, yet the footage is shaking. I was using a Rokinon lens I had borrowed:


I was told that in order to avoid that, that I need to have IS on. So why is it shaking on the gimbal, if IS is not the problem?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

This is why you should use telephoto lenses only when needed. The longer the lens the more they magnifying things you don’t want such as camera shake. Even on a tripod they show up any vibration and make smooth pans difficult. Putting them on a gimbal is a real no no. The wider the lens on a gimbal the easier it is to keep a shot smooth.

In the video you posted you are misusing the gimbal. There were still shots that a tripod should have been used instead of a gimbal. I can also see it was filmed under windy conditions that’s problematic for gimbal work. Most people use gimbal for following a subject walking or as inexpensive dolly replacement.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Oh yeah the example in the video was a wide lens, sorry, for the confusion.

I had to do all the shots on the gimbal in the video, cause he had to do a limited shoot time, and I didn't have time to switch from gimbal to tripod, and switch to gimbal again, cause the re-balancing would take too much time, and I had to do all the shots on the gimbal to save time.

But even if some of the gimbal shots are still and not moving, as you can see, there is still vibration in the footage. So how do you get rid of that vibration without IS?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I suspect the low mass of these cameras doesn't help, plus there is an element of operating skill. I would test putting a small metal plate (eg 1/4" steel) under the camera with a screw that goes into the camera and a threaded hole so that you can mount it onto the gimbal. This should add some inertia, so that the camera is less prone to vibration.

Scheduling is key, you must have a realistic schedule otherwise the results will be poor.

Gimbals are limited in what they can do, you have to work within their restrictions.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

You can either use a dedicated camera that remains on the gimbal or attach quickly release plate carrier to the gimbal that allows you to quickly take the camera on and off.

Like Brian said light weight camera/gimbal are susceptible to wind.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. But let's say I do that and only use the gimbal for shots where it's absolutely needed then. As you can see, there is still vibration in the footage, when using the gimbal. What do you do about that, if a lens doesn't need IS to solve it? Cause even if I were to use the gimbal for even just one shot, the vibration problem, without IS, is still there, even if it's just for one shot.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I would try increasing the weight of the camera to dampen the vibration. although a certain amount of the vibration looks like it may be contributed by the operator.

I wouldn't use longer focal lengths on a gimbal.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, but that example was not a long focal length and it was not a telephoto lens. I think it was a 24 or 35mm if I am correct. But if you have to add weight to camera, that just makes heavier. Wouldn't it just be easier to get a lens with IS, rather than add weight, for a heavier gimbal to operate?

Also when it comes to using a long telephoto lens on a tripod, and the lens doesn't have IS, is the footage going to vibrate when panning on a tripod?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

You're supposed to switch off the IS when the camera is on a tripod.

Adding mass to the camera will increase its inertia, so damping its tendency to vibrate. You should also hold the gimbal with the lightest touch possible, a finger tip touch,

Compared to a higher end camera, this is still light.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. But why is it bad to have IS though? Like why is adding weight better, compared to just switching IS on? Does IS have any problems, that are frowned upon?

Also some of the scenes I want to shoot are car driving scenes, where the camera will be hooked up to the Selens car camera mount. Shouldn't I have lenses with IS, while driving, cause that will cause vibration if the lenses do not have IS?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

If you've got a car mount you may get jello effect from the vibration because of the rolling shutter on the CMOS sensor in the camera. You need to test to if if this might be an issue.

If you need to use IS on your tripod, it shows that your tripod is not the best quality,

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...2855/KBID/3801

If the lenses don't have IS, you can't use it.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. What about if I am panning with a telephoto lens on a tripod, and the movement is much more exaggerated when zoomed into 300mm? Wouldn't I need IS if I am zoomed in that far, while panning?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

No, you don't need IS, invest in a good tripod.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, will do! I have been looking around for telephoto lenses with mechanical focus rings to replace my fly-by-wire one.

Now it would be nice to have the zoom as a bonus like the DSLR lens in the film riot was able to do, but when these lenses are on sale, they never list whether or not it can pull off a zoom and maintain focus through the zoom as one of features. Is there a way to tell, since it's not listed? Or I could just pull focus during a crash zoom if that would help.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

As mentioned earlier in the thread, you need to test the lenses, but the Sigma still zooms might be a good starting point. https://www.newsshooter.com/2016/12/...al-evaluation/

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, sorry, it's just a lot of the lenses have to be ordered, but I can see if I can find a source that will let me return them for a refund, until I have found the best one for me.

Now since I am using the telephoto lens for a chase scene, I was going to use a focal length around 300mm, to pan for the side shots, of the chase, and then a 24mm around on a gimbal for other shots in the case, closer up.

But would mixing a 300mm focal length with a 24mm look strange at all, for a chase scene, or is that perfectly fine?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

It's all in how you do it.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks, I will keep that in mind.

Someone also said that it was worth keeping the telephoto lens even though it is fly-by-wire as long as I shoot the action and chase scenes with really deep focus, but do you think that doing it that way, can cause any other problems?

Some viewers say they don't like deep focus, but is it possible to make it look good, like older black and white movies with deep focus use to have?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Films with deep focus don't use telephoto lenses.

Fly by wire will work if you focus by eye through the viewfinder, it won't work with marks.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. Well I meant just stopping down enough on the telephoto lens so the focus is deep enough you won't have to pull focus, provided there is enough light and good quality ISO.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

The most important thing at your stage is learning the best approach and technique. All the defects in your last movie clip you posted could have been fixed without spending any money.

You really are fixated on long lenses. Do you know you can zoom with any lens, even a wide angle prime? You have two things called feet.

Before you said you used 35mm lens on the gimbal, but if you're filming with a Micro 4/3 camera, the crop factor is 2x, meaning it's really a 70mm. That's not wide at all in fact that's a telephoto. Also many people prefer IS on a gimbal. Btw there was a lot of vertical motion in your movie clip, that can be reduced with practice.

If I were you I'd hold on to your FBW lenses. They're great for shooting on a budget, people use them all the time for run n gun type stuff like weddings. If you want to pull focus and have the money then cine lenses are a must. (but we've been over this for the millionth time)

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Well there are different reasons why I wanted a long lens. For one thing, I can track running actors for a long time in a chase scene, which is what I wanted it for, to do really pans.

As with zooming with feet, I wanted to do some crash zooms in the scene, if possible, but a crash zoom is the lens zooming really fast, and I cannot run that fast with my feet. I would have to run about 75 feet, in a fraction of a second. A zoom lens can zoom that fast, but a person's feet, cannot go that fast of course.

I tried the speed ramp thing, but the footage looks obviously sped up and it doesn't look right in my opinion, compared to just finding a way to crash zoom it. I can forget about the crash zoom and just hold onto the FBW lens if that's best, I am just not sure if I can shoot a whole chase scene, and pull focus without hitting marks. But I can practice.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

For two months you’ve been insisting on shooting a scene that requires a lens you neither have or can’t afford/acquire. Either rewrite the scene or buy the lens.

I’m not suggesting you use feet for a crash zoom rather that even a wide angle lens can become a telephoto by simply moving closer to achieve a close up.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Sorry, I am just trying to explore all possible options to shoot the scene the best way possible.

The problem I have with shooting on a wide, during a chase scene, is that a wide angle lens, cannot pan with an actor very long at all, before the actor goes further away. Here's a shot I did of a friend, with the 300mm.


As you can see, the lens can track along with a person for a much longer amount of time, compared to a 70mm. This is why I wanted a telephoto around 300mm. Moving in closer with a 70mm will not give me near as wide of a pan.

But I also wanted a telephoto cause it makes people and objects look closer together with high compression.

For example I want to do a shot, where an actor points a gun towards the camera, and the gun looks really close to the face. You can do that on a 300mm, but not on a 70mm. Also when doing over the shoulder shots, you can make actors look really close on a 300m but not a 70mm.

What if I tried to fake the compression, and make them look closer? Would the viewer be able to tell? Here are some comparisons I did with the 300mm with real compression, to an 85 mm, trying to fake the compression but having the objects actually be closer:


Does faking compression work with an 85mm lens, or can the audience tell that the compression is being faked? Cause if I can do these types of shots, on a non-telephoto, by simply moving a wider lens closer, than I'll do it, but I think these kind of shots I want, have to be done on a telephoto, unless I am wrong?

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

This thread seems to be going run in circles.

The crash zoom is separate from the telephoto. You either rent a parfocal cine zoom or buy one of the few varifocal still zooms which have "near" parfocal characteristics. The stills version of Sigma zoom mentioned above is worth checking out.

You don't need a zoom lens for a long lens look.

You can't use markings for focus on fly by wire lens..

If you want IS you'll probably;need a fly by wire lens for the gimbal shots, So either borrow or rent a suitable lens if you can't afford to buy both a manual focus and an IS lens, You could test adding a weight to the camera (as mentioned earlier) to dampen it on the gimbal if a manual focus lens is the only option because you really need manual focus with markings and only obtain/afford one of these two lens options,

Google is your friend (other search engines exist) you can check out from sites that have run tests on zoom lenses.

I don't think you need to repeat your thought processes,when they've already been mentioned earlier in thread.

I suspect everything has been exhausted on this chase scene apart from you going out and shooting it.

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

I don’t know if I’ve already said this but I feel like Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day

*wakes to "I Got You Babe"...

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Re: Is it possible to pull focus on a lens while crash zooming?
 

Okay thanks. Sorry if I was asking too much or being going around in a circle, I just want to make sure I have covered all options.

I won't need a parfocal lens though, for zooming, as long as I get lens that can pull it off that is not parfocal, like they one they used in the film riot video.

I think what I will do is look for a telephoto lens like that and see what there is. I cannot test every DSLR lens I find online, but maybe there is some way to find out if they can pull off zooms or not.