The Imac dilemma
 

My current camera: Canon XH-A1 (4pin firewire output)

My wanted Imac minimums:
1gig graphics card
3.1 or higher quad core processor
8 gigs ram

Question 1.
I want to get an Imac, but the newest I-macs ditched the firewire inputs. Is a 4 pin firewire to thunderport possible? or should I buy an older model imac that still has the firewire input.

Question 2.
Looking to buy the CS6 master suite once I get the Imac. Any potential problems to look out for?


Any info is appreciated.
Thank you.

-Paul

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I know several iMAC owners personally that regretted buying them for editing once they got them. If you are a hobbyist an iMAC is fine. CS6 runs OK. If you are getting paid to edit then - not just no but hell no. Don't do it.

You will quickly outgrow it. Unless you have your heart set on one and are willing to put up with the limitations I would seriously recommend a MAC Pro or a PC. Pretty much anything else other than an iMAC.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Main reason being its hard to ingests footage? or performance is not up to par?

Video editing is mostly a hobby for me.

My work computer is a 2010 model 27" imac. 12gig, 2.8ghz i5, 1gig graphics card, and I really like it for video editing. However, I am using FCE, not premiere.

My home PC, is an old one(4gig ram, 2.6 dual core, windows vista), using the CS3 suite.

Eitherway, my home computer is in desperate need of an upgrade. I am weighting my options, and I don't really want to be on the windows platform anymore. Can't afford a MAC pro. Considered building a hack-a-mac.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Love my 2009 iMac which upped to 8Gigs of RAM and works well with FCP X for my nanoFlash footage off my XLH1 and my XHG1s.

Am planning to get a MB Pro if only for portability. Strictly amateur which I guess most iMac users are.



Ron

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

You are really hamstrung when it comes to expandability. Apple is pushing thunderbolt hard and as you see is removing virtually every other IO option from their machines. That alone would be grounds enough for me to pass on one since I have a collection of equipment that uses firewire and/or USB.

Performance is modest. As recently as last night I sat and watched an iMAC grind through transcoding for an hour when my machine at home would have been done with the same job in a few minutes. We were stuck waiting because they had to create proxies to get any usable performance out of the machine.

For the cost its not a good value in my opinion. You have no option for improving the video card performance next year when your edit software does an upgrade to improve real time performance of difficult codecs such as AVCHD.

If you are doing simple projects that can fit on a simple external drive then it is a workable choice. In a few months you will likely want a bit more out of it and won't have any good paths to get there.

Even a hack-a-mac is a better option in my opinion. At least there you can choose hardware that more closely fits what you need for editing and have options when the next version of "software-x" comes out and demands higher hardware requirements.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I disagree. A properly spec'd iMac is more than a capable tool for video work.

I've been working on a 27" iMac for almost 3 years now and it's plenty fast for anything I want to do with it. With a quad core i7 processor I can't image a similarly priced MacPro could be any faster encoding. In fact, it's not the horsepower that causes me issues, but the bandwidth of Firewire drives. Thankfully, Thunderbolt fixes this issue.

What I think we're forgetting here is that Thunderbolt IS the expandability. There are products available that hold full-size PCI cards with anything from video inputs to Firewire and eSATA connectors. Most people will never need something this specialized, but they're available if you absolutely need to have Fiber Channel or something: Sonnet - Echo Express SE Thunderbolt PCIe Expansion Chassis

Not to mention the $29 TB to Firewire adapter that Apple sells: Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter - Apple Store (U.S.)

And this awesome new product from Belkin: Thunderbolt Express Dock | Belkin USA Site

As far as value goes, you're getting a $700+ IPS screen with 2560x1440 resolution. Aside from being high in quality for a computer display, the real estate helps you be more productive. The Mac Pro is nearly double the price once you get a screen for it, and it STILL doesn't have the Thunderbolt capability. USB 3.0 drives should be more than fast enough to handle anything you're doing with an XHA1.

For what it's worth, I think the OP would be thrilled with one of the new iMacs. If he "really likes" using FCE on a 2010 model, he'll be blown away by a program like CS6 that can actually take advantage of all 8 virtual cores on the i5 or i7. When it comes down to it, a hackintosh just takes way too much work and the MacPro is dead in the water when it comes down to the new consumer standard: Thunderbolt. Get the iMac.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

The new i-Mac will be the fastest computer to edit with Final Cut:

In December this Mac will run Final Cut Pro X the fastest and look cool doing it too - fcp.co

In order to keep your mac as current for as long as possible; I reckon its best to always get the highest specs you can.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I've been wondering about this. I see that it's getting time to get something new (currently have 08 imac), and was of course looking into the spanking new Imacs.

I'm caught in a purgatory where I'm certainly not an amateur, but I rarely edit for pay. Mostly for personal projects. I didn't say never, just rarely. A Mac Pro would be overkill for me, I feel. I certainly am not spending $5k+ for a new one with screen, though I'd consider an older one for about half that if folks have recommendations (that includes NON-Apple monitors comparable to the luscious 30" cinema displays). Of course I'd want something that would somehow be compatible with modern devices, everything going thunderbolt these days, and no anything-to-thunderbolt (input) adapters.

Would the latest Imac, with the upgrades to the processor, etc., really not be up to par with prosumer HD footage (from your EX1s, DSRLs, HPXs, etc.--no red or Alex or any of that madness, more than likely), using Premiere or FCP6 and motion graphics via Motion/After Effects? I'm getting by with that stuff (it ain't necessarily easy) on the 08. I'd assume it'd be 1000x better with a new one.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Exactly because expanding or upgrading next year when things change again it is not practical.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I have a 2011 i7 IMAC. It replaced my 2.1 8 core MacPro tower and I have never looked back. The latest IMAC's are significantly faster than all but the most recent Mac Pro towers.

Expandability, while perhaps you can't add PCI cards without going to an external thunderbolt box, the ability to throw 16GB of ram in the iMAC for a fraction of the cost of doing the same with the MacPro is fantastic. In addition as I also use a TB equipped MacBook Pro for editing on the road I can use all the same accessories, I/O adapters, drive adapters etc on both machines. The new iMacs will have two thunderbolt ports so will be much more expandable. As Windows laptops are also starting to add TB ports as well the expandability will only get better.

Once upon a time I did need to be able to add PCI cards etc to get HDSDI, surround sound audio or raid arrays. But now I don't. Delivery of programmes is now on a hard drive, external raid boxes are plentiful and convenient and can be easily swapped between machines. If you need a second monitor for you project bins etc you can use a TB adapter, TB monitor or use an apple TV connected to an HDMI or DVI monitor and AirPlay.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

In response to Alister, You can now put up to 32GB of ram into the Imac.

With two TB ports, 4 USB 3 ports, and a host of other features, the iMac is an amazing choice for editing. The only other option to consider is building a hackintosh, but those require lots of time and skill to make and you're still not saving a whole lot of money compared to an iMac.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Saw this thread and thought I'd mention something for those not immediately needing to make the call on a new iMac or say a Retina MBP.

Apple have publicly stated (in the Summer of 2012) that there will be a new Mac Pro in 2013. We of course have no idea what it will be like but I'd expect to see a beast performance wise, a few Thunderbolt connectors and easy expandability. As to whether or not I will be able to afford it (or want it) to supersede my 2009 Mac Pro now that I mainly use Adobe Production Premium as my editing software is another matter!

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Thanks everyone for the reply's.

Thanks, hopefully this would work with my XH-A1. and should answer question 1 of mine.

As for question 2, anyone here running CS6 on OS X mountain lion?

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Check out www.barefeats.com for specific performance tests of iMacs vs. MacPros - I can't link directly to a test because the site is currently down (related to Sandy???)

I have a 2008 8-core MacPro w/14gb ram, SSD boot drive, Radeon 5870, and the 24" display (pre-Thunderbolt). The just discontinued 2011 top line quad-core iMac is faster on everything. The new ones that come out in December will be even faster.

I'm just waiting to see what the 2013 MacPro upgrade is like (since I won't need a monitor) but I may get an iMac instead.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Well, looks like I have to reconsider my opinion on the iMAC for editing.

And hope that some folks I know get new ones soon.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Update: After weighing my options, I decided the newest model I-mac was not for me.

So, I just put in an order for a May 2011 model I-Mac for three main reasons:
1) I can upgrade the Ram easier & cheaper than in the newest models **correction** Ram is only harder to upgrade on the 21.5" imac
2) This model still has a firewire input and 2 thunderbolt ports
3) This will save me about $450. I'll put up with a little thicker computer for that much $$$

Specs:
3.4GHz Quad-Core i7
4GB DD3 ram (will upgrade to 32)
1TB hard drive
AMD Radeon HD 6970M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory


I will be ordering CS6 soon, and I'll keep everyone updated.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

So what are the cons of the slightly older one vs the newer ones? What are you losing out on by getting the mid-2011 vs newer?

And where'd you end up getting it from?

Thanks.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Everything is newer basically, thinner screen obviously.
I'm no expert, but from what I found.

Ram (minimums)
2012 model - 8gig min - 1600mhz **see quote below on upgrading ram on the 21.5" model**
2011 model - 4gig min - 1333mhz

Processor
2012 model is the newest i7 (with turbo boost?)

USB
2012 model - 3.0
2011 model - 2.0

Hard drive
2012 model - fusion drive available

But if you like to do anything yourself, read this.
Teardown of New 21.5-inch iMac Reveals Glued Down LCD and Dual Microphones - Mac Rumors
Got my 2011 imac from the apple refurb store.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

If it makes a difference i should mention ill be going 27" this time around. Do those minor processor changes mean much if you never plan on dealing with red, alexa etc. Footage? I see myself dealing with the prosumer forms if hd for the foreseaable future (dslr, ex1, p2, etc.)

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I don't think they mean much as long you get an i7 processor. -http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/30/...us-generation/

If i didn't just buy mine... I would have a bid in on this one since it comes with CS6.
iMac 27 256SSD 3 4GHz i7 CPU 2GHz GPU and 16GHz of RAM Mid 2011 Model | eBay
curious to see what it ends up selling for.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Well I just ordered the 27" with 3.4Ghz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo boost up to 3.9Ghz, 3TB Serial ATA Drive, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2GB graphics card, and USB SuperDrive. Then from Other World Computing I ordered 32GB of RAM, and a Mini Display to Mini Display cable. My thought was to use my 2009 27" iMac i7 as a second monitor, and then to attach a Thunderbolt RAID setup like the Pegasus R6 12TB raid off one Thunderbolt port, and drive my Panasonic BT-LH2600W monitor via Matrox MX02LE off the second Thunderbolt port. My older MacPro will then be moved into secondary use position.

You could always use a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter to capture from your XH-A1. You are going to have to use some form of adapter with the older iMac with FireWire anyways going from 800 to 400. I know you likely don't want to hear this, but have you thought of updating to a more modern camera which does not use tape or FireWire?

All the Best!

Dave

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Congrats! So will you be upgrading the RAM yourself on the new i-mac?
In a perfect world, yes I would updgrade my camera too, but the computer needed upgrading first and funds are limited.
I already have a 4pin to 6 pin firewire cable and a 4pin to 9 pin firewire cable.

I also may consider getting DN-60 for my camcorder.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Yes, and the $450 I saved has been applied to external HD storage.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

You are braver than I good sir.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

You do realize the new 27" iMac has an easy access door for RAM access?

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I did not. I assumed it was the same as the 21.5 inch. Good to know.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Perfect setup. That thing is going to scream. I'm quite interested in the Belkin Thunderbolt dock when it is released to take care of all the "vintage" ports :)

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Still didn't see WHERE you got your mid-2011 mac. Ebay? Some online merchant?

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

End of post 18, i gotta it from apple.com's refurb section. You need to keep checking though cause it changes often.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

My bad. Didn't see that the first time for some reason. I will check it out. Thanks.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Ok. I see the downside...you dont get to select the upgrade options when you go refurb. So it would have to already have the maxed out processor etc. if thats what you wanted. Also you would have to know what those options were for older models. Anyone know where you can find that info?

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

correct.
here is your info on the mid 2011 model options.
iMac (21.5-inch and 27-inch, Mid 2011) - Technical Specifications

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

The real problem with the new iMacs is that there is no FW800 and you cannot open them up and upgrade the harddrive yourself. In fact, there is no space to add a 2nd HD. Basically Apple just said forget it to people who wanted a MacPro "Light" by purchasing a 27.5" iMac and then refitting it.

I had been thinking about one but after these revelations about its insides I have stopped considering it. It will become a white elephant.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Thanks for the info on the mid-2011s. I'll know what to look out for now.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

I don't know about the white elephant comment. As far as not being able to add a second internal hard drive goes, that doesn't really bother me, as I can add an ultra fast RAID via Thunderbolt port for as much fast storage as needed. And FireWire can also be added via Thunderbolt port. And at this point I'm perfectly happy with my choice of the 3TB internal hard drive I ordered it with. By the time they make an SSD large enough as well as cost effective that I would want to change the drive, it will also likely be time to buy a new computer by then.

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

Changing the HDD directly shouldn't be impossibly hard, you mainly just remove the screen to get access to it - it's replacing the optical drive in the older iMacs with a 2nd HDD that requires disassembling practically the entire computer (which is what most of the videos on youtube are demonstrating).

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

So these new ones have SSD drives instead of. . .um. . .spinning drives? Are these stable? I used to read how solid state drives were prone to spontaneous failure.

And I've read elsewhere that this fusion drive something something is super fast, worth upgrading to, makes all your stuff faster (not just certain applications).

Are these options on the mid-2011 or only the newest ones?

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

It is my understanding that the Fusion drive automatically transfers apps and files located on the hard drive portion of the Fusion drive which are used most into the Flash area of the drive.

I ordered mine with just the 3TB spinning HD rather than the Fusion drive or SSD. Solid state drives are still too small and costly for my taste. By the time they start selling large low cost SSDs it will be time to buy a new computer. I will be adding a very fast thunderbolt RAID which will help to alleviate the biggest bottle neck which is media read/write times. And I'm really looking forward to editing with dual 27" monitors. :)

Re: The Imac dilemma
 

The new ones have this option, yes.

The fushion drives were not available until this newest model, however SSD were available in older models. As Dave stated, as long you have a thunderbolt port, you have expandability to faster SSD drives regardless of what is inside the machine.


Josh, What are you using now and what is your budget? If you need to save some money, you can go the same route I did. If you have some cash to spare, you can go the way David did. I recommend getting the best processor you can afford, and pick your other battles from there on where to save money.